The Core Has To Go

[Squiffy]

Can't they get out of JT's deal by finding a team willing to buyout his contract? Similar to how they got out of Zaitsev and Marleau's deal a couple of years ago? And then sign JT back on a cheaper deal after it's done. Obviously it would cost some picks and prospects but it's probably worth it if it means finally paying JT what he's worth and also fulfills his wish to come back.

No, the CBA prevents those shenanigans, they thought of it. He couldn’t sign back here in that scenario

 

[stealth1]

I was listening to NHL radio last night and they made a good point in what's wrong with this core. The conclusion was that while the core are great players, they all play a similar game. Since that's unlikely to change one or two of them have to go. You need one or two top guys that will hit and go into the corners.

 

[andora]

No, the CBA prevents those shenanigans, they thought of it. He couldn’t sign back here in that scenario

Did that get changed after orpik washingron colorado did it?

 

[The Iceman]

Something I read yesterday that I found interesting

Leafs have 30% of all players making more than $10 million/year.
And a team with a player making more than $10 million has never won the cup.

 

[NVious]

Something I read yesterday that I found interesting

Leafs have 30% of all players making more than $10 million/year.
And a team with a player making more than $10 million has never won the cup.

Just wait until Auston asks for 14, Mitch asks for 13 and Willie asks for 10+.

The Leafs stanley cup is paying players lots of money not to perform, we are unmatched in our ability to do that.

Maybe we can even resign JT after two years at 10+ million lmfao.

 

[Blanka]

Believe it or not, the cap went up exactly the same amount for every team.

I don't see why people think that the flat cap affected Toronto, but not every other team, particularly the other teams at or near the top.

Teams that play in states with extremely low income tax or none at all have a distinct advantage over Toronto and we've seen that with teams like Tampa Bay. They can afford to pay their players say 15 to 20% less because no state income tax can offset those losses. Those extra funds can then go into better goalies, defensemen and third and fourth line forwards making your club more well-rounded; in theory.

 

[Trapper]

The title of this thread is a little misleading.
The core doesn't need to go, it needs to change. Just like Florida changed out 2 core members, we need to alter it in a similar fashion. Maybe a winger needs to become a D core member. Forwards that are harder to play against.

 

[Squiffy]

Did that get changed after orpik washingron colorado did it?

No you're right, it can be done, I am going way back and confusing compliance buy-out rules with ordinary course buyouts. Thought it was the case for ordinary ones too but just went and re-read the section of the CBA.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Something I read yesterday that I found interesting

Leafs have 30% of all players making more than $10 million/year.
And a team with a player making more than $10 million has never won the cup.

Even just looking at the 20 man roster, that would be 6 players.

Matthews, Tavares, and Marner are three. Who else?

Going by sheer numbers is disingenuous as the cap and salaries keep rising - much better to use cap % (it's still bad).

 

[notDatsyuk]

Teams that play in states with extremely low income tax or none at all have a distinct advantage over Toronto and we've seen that with teams like Tampa Bay. They can afford to pay their players say 15 to 20% less because no state income tax can offset those losses. Those extra funds can then go into better goalies, defensemen and third and fourth line forwards making your club more well-rounded; in theory.

True, but that situation exists whether the cap is flat or increasing, so it is irrelevant to my point.

 

[Leafs87]

The one that sticks out like a sore thumb to me is Marner at 11 mil.

 

[andora]

No you're right, it can be done, I am going way back and confusing compliance buy-out rules with ordinary course buyouts. Thought it was the case for ordinary ones too but just went and re-read the section of the CBA.

Oh lol wasnt trying to right but legit asking.. that was a while ago

 

[The Iceman]

Even just looking at the 20 man roster, that would be 6 players.

Matthews, Tavares, and Marner are three. Who else?

Going by sheer numbers is disingenuous as the cap and salaries keep rising - much better to use cap % (it's still bad).

Sorry, let me word that differently.

10 players make over $10 million/year in the NHL.
we have 3 of them/30%.

 

[Gallagbi]

Sorry, let me word that differently.

10 players make over $10 million/year in the NHL.
we have 3 of them/30%.

I see 21 NHLers making $10M+ this year, none are Leafs due to their front loaded deals.

I see 14 players with a cap hit of 10M or more, 3 are Leafs.

 

[bodechek]

You keep Mattews, otherwise you go back to looking for a #1 center again. If Tavares does not waiver his no trade, then you move Nylander and/or Marner. You will get a higher return for Marner, and IF the right offer comes along you do it.

 

[Zack47]

It IS on the GM people -- stop giving him a pass and explaining away the problem. What kind of evidence do you need to conclude the GM is not actually doing his job? How many years in a row?

Think about this list......

1. It's HIS Core Four.
2. It's HIS weak forward support at wing and in the so-called "bottom six" because he doesn't have enough money to actually pay for a third line with any threat value.
3. It's HIS hodge-podge defense, that was still not the biggest issue on this team at the trade deadline so he goes out and gets three defensemen for god knows what reason or goal, and then the coach sits one of the more talented trades so Holl can play.
4. It's HIS high risk goalie situation because he can't find a stable goalie who can play in the playoffs.
5. It's HIS coach, who is basically, painfully, an amateur.
6. It's HIS player contracts that are limiting the future of this team.

Anyone have other issues to add to the list I have forgotten?

 

[geo25]

Tkachuk nailed it.

Leafs are loaded with talent.

That doesn't make them a playoffs winning team.

One of the double digits has to go so they can use that $11mm on 2 playoff performers.

Tavares has a NMC.

The decision is determining which one of Matthews or marner has the strength of character to help lead a team to victory?

Neither imho...

 

[geo25]

JT is the best one to be moved from a pure practical standpoint but I don't think the Laughs will even try it due to his age, cap hit and no-movement clause not to mention he is also a hometown boy who also happens to be captain.

Unpopular opinion here but I will give #34 some slack. The amount of things he does well defensively goes very unnoticed. He's been clutch in the playoffs before including Round 1 this year and it is a shame that his drought came at the worst possible time in Round 2 even though he hit a few posts. He is literally Ovi and Bergeron in one package when dialed in. Talent of this calibre don't come by often and if you move him you could be looking for years without a top centre like the Kessel days which is not fun.

Willy and Rielly have shown what they can do in the playoffs particularly this run so I think they deserve to stay. This leaves Mitch. I honestly think the kid cracks under pressure. You can see how sensitive he is based on watching his interviews particularly this round. Hard to say it doesn't affect his playoff performance to a certain degree at the very least.

Not for $13-14 mil

 

[geo25]

If you have to choose you keep Matthews over Marner. The center and goal scorer.

I'd do both...

 

[hockeywiz542]

Leafs core's desire to run it back makes potential shakeup even harder

If Toronto is going to make profound changes this offseason, they'll be doing so against the wishes of a team that wants to stay — and win — together.

ca.style.yahoo.com

If the Toronto Maple Leafs' leadership group was planning on making sweeping changes after another playoff disappointment, their job got a little harder after the team's season-closing debrief with the media on Monday.

To be clear, if the team wants to let GM Kyle Dubas walk or ship out someone in the Core Four of Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, John Tavares, and William Nylander — it will still do just that. Shaking up the foundation of the franchise is justifiable given the consistent lack of postseason success.

That said, if MLSE is hoping to put this squad in the blender, it's doing so in a PR landscape that moved ever so slightly yesterday.

Dubas was the fulcrum of that shift.

He entered the day as someone who appeared to be a likely candidate for a front office job with the Pittsburgh Penguins, or another NHL franchise. At the very least, he could have presented himself as someone with a difficult decision to make in the offseason, paving the way for an amicable split.

Instead, the executive made it clear he either wanted to stay in Toronto or take time away from the NHL. That means if MLSE wants Dubas gone, that will almost certainly be framed as their choice unless Dubas goes out of his way to say he needs time off.

The GM has a mixed track record and plenty of detractors, but dropping someone who is well-regarded enough to get offers around the league that only wants to work for you isn't the easiest look from a PR perspective.

While nothing the players said was as surprising as Dubas' declaration, they similarly did not give the team's decisions makers an easy way out of Toronto's current predicament.

 

[geo25]

Which is essentially the equivalent of a player wanting out of his current situation.

What if Matthews isn't exactly at that point? What if he waits until early into the new season to re-sign like Rielly did? Do the Leafs absolutely have to make this trade in the absence of Auston's signature on a new contract by a certain date?

Not worth the risk of finding out....if they're not negotiating then trade him asap

 

[geo25]

What is missing? Burning it all down actually makes sense, but not because this is a fix. It is just a necessity, The empirical evidence is clear.

Many writers have commented on the fact that "something is missing" on this team. I would say, quoting Nirvana "something is in the way". Although it sounds radical, sometimes what you subtract from a team can solve problems faster than what you add. We think too much about what to add.

Changing the GM and the coach has to happen, because they have not achieved what they should, but on its own, that does not solve the problem. It really is about the players in the end.

This thought IS radical, but I believe that their main strength is the their main weakness: Matthews and Marner. I sometimes wonder about "the room" and how it works. I imagine M and M off on their own, certainly acting superior to all of the foot soldiers, acting functionally as a separate clique, checking what the are going to wear to the rink and making it sure it is a different colour. M and M are the poison on this team. They are well-intentioned, but their own contracts are the cause of the inability of the support troops to take the pressure off them. I also think there is a character issue, and you can laugh at how irrelevant it is, but.. it is not. I just think arrogance and attitude comes through, and I assume this is a split room, a two-class system, the lords and the serfs.

They need to move both Matthews and Marner now, and get back four or five young players, and think about distributing the talent, but most of all, make sure they care about winning in the end, more than partying in Muskoka. I don`t care if they make the playoffs next year per se. Just something to build towards.

We all have to face it. This is over.

Some excellent points...

 

[Larcos_Unal]

 

[ToneDog]

I recall da real deal telling us the sponsors were happy with Dubas. This morning Kyper says that behind the curtains the people paying for the high priced seats are not happy that there are no more games this year. Sounded like these people have some influence with management.

 

[ShaneFalco]

If AM wants to re-sign, I'm all for it.
Marner needs to go though. And they need some offence from their defence. I'd probably hang on to Nylander but would certainly listen