The Bobby Orr Trophy (Why not?)

[Fantomas]

Nah. Giving a trophy to a guy playing a defensive position for offense is bizarre.

 

[saffronleaf]

Nah. Giving a trophy to a guy playing a defensive position for offense is bizarre.

then why selke?

 

[Montecristo]

You expect Jeremy Jacobs to buy and then immediately donate a big expensive fancy trophy to the league? Like, for free?

 

[Smart Alek]

You expect Jeremy Jacobs to buy and then immediately donate a big expensive fancy trophy to the league? Like, for free?

Gosh... I hadn't considered that variable. Maybe tell him that if he doesn't cough up the dosh then Chicago will.

 

[Jarey Curry]

But Norris is close to being that award. They value points very highly.

 

[96]

Been beating this drum for a long time, only read through page one so forgive me if its already been said... The NHL should add two new awards, the Bobby Orr (most pts D) and the Wayne Gretkzy (most assists).

 

[Binister]

I'm already wondering why there hasn't been an award already like this.

 

[Legionnaire]

The Art Ross is bad enough. If you, as an interested party, can't look up who was the leading scoring forward or defenseman in 2018, and if you, as a player, need a trophy for it, then you shouldn't be in or watching the NHL you should go back to Kindergarten.

 

[McBaevid]

Oh look, its the yearly Bobby Orr trophy thread

 

[Maffew]

Didn't read the OP. Assuming it's for the biggest diver?

 

[ulvvf]

Norris should basically always goes to the one that score the most. Maybe you can take other things in consider if there is only 1-2 points between, but more than that and it should not be any question, but if you shall look at other things than points, then you have to be very clear about what specificly and be consistant with it year after year, not change the criteria to suit your player. I much rather see all trophies be judge by a computer algorithms then by votes. The problem with vote base things is that they are extremly biased and arbitrary. It is better if tropies goes by hard cold facts and not opinions that are very easily influenced by other things.

Accoriding to NHL.com Doughy is a favorite to win the norris this year apperntly, even if he is far behind the scoring leader. So i guess he would win it if the season ended now. That would mean.

2013: Subban (canadian) wins both the scoring race and norris
2014: Karlsson (none canadian), win the scoring race, Keith (canadian) far behind him wins the norris
2015: Karlsson wins both the scoring race and norris
2016: Karlsson win the scoring race, Doughty (canadian) about 30p(!) behind wins norris
2017: Burns (canadian) wins both the scoring race and norris
2018 Klingberg (none canadian) is leading the scoring race with a big margin, but Doughty far behind is favorite to win the norris

So lets see, lately when a canadian wins the scoring race they have won norris 2 out of 2 times here, when a none canadian have won the race, they have won 1 out of 4 times , and who have won instead of them? 3 out of 3 times canadians.

Why not just call it for what it is, best canadian d-men. Why preteding that is about the best d-men, when even a player 30p behind win it. Even if it is not just about nationality, it is still a very arbitrary trophy, and how can a arbitrary trophy be taken seriously?

If I am for or against a new trophy? I do not know, i rather see them change the existent tropies so they stop being so biased and arbitrary. But if they cant, then why not. That at least make it easier to remember who really was the best d-men that year.

 

[22Brad Park]

I agree with a Bobby Orr Trophy. Paul Coffey Trophy could also be good if Orr doesn't want his name on it.



It was a funny thread.

Bourque-- All time leader in points and scored more goals then Coffey in a bit less games but no Gretzky or Messier etc with him in Boston.

 

[Legionnaire]

Norris should basically always goes to the one that score the most. Maybe you can take other things in consider if there is only 1-2 points between, but more than that and it should not be any question, but if you shall look at other things than points, then you have to be very clear about what specificly and be consistant with it year after year, not change the criteria to suit your player. I much rather see all trophies be judge by a computer algorithms then by votes. The problem with vote base things is that they are extremly biased and arbitrary. It is better if tropies goes by hard cold facts and not opinions that are very easily influenced by other things.

Accoriding to NHL.com Doughy is a favorite to win the norris this year apperntly, even if he is far behind the scoring leader. So i guess he would win it if the season ended now. That would mean.

2013: Subban (canadian) wins both the scoring race and norris
2014: Karlsson (none canadian), win the scoring race, Keith (canadian) far behind him wins the norris
2015: Karlsson wins both the scoring race and norris
2016: Karlsson win the scoring race, Doughty (canadian) about 30p(!) behind wins norris
2017: Burns (canadian) wins both the scoring race and norris
2018 Klingberg (none canadian) is leading the scoring race with a big margin, but Doughty far behind is favorite to win the norris

So lets see, lately when a canadian wins the scoring race they have won norris 2 out of 2 times here, when a none canadian have won the race, they have won 1 out of 4 times , and who have won instead of them? 3 out of 3 times canadians.

Why not just call it for what it is, best canadian d-men. Why preteding that is about the best d-men, when even a player 30p behind win it. Even if it is not just about nationality, it is still a very arbitrary trophy, and how can a arbitrary trophy be taken seriously?

If I am for or against a new trophy? I do not know, i rather see them change the existent tropies so they stop being so biased and arbitrary. But if they cant, then why not. That at least make it easier to remember who really was the best d-men that year.

You know your argument, if it is one, is already lost when it degenerates to your xenophobia. Get over it. Grow up. Thank you. Have a nice day.

 

[BonAppleTea]

i didn't mean to imply that at all, i was just moreso saying it has come up over the decades in the past. the nhl doesn't seem interested.




not in the slightest, he gets points which is sexy to many but i don't think many real hockey experts would pretend he's actually been the best dman period.

After last years playoffs I would say most hockey experts indeed think he is the best defenceman. Don't forget how good he is just because he can't skate like he normally does this season after his massive foot injuries. He is not the best in all categories, but the total package and his ability to take over games are second to none as the entire world clearly saw last spring

 

[joe dirte]

Norris should basically always goes to the one that score the most. Maybe you can take other things in consider if there is only 1-2 points between, but more than that and it should not be any question, but if you shall look at other things than points, then you have to be very clear about what specificly and be consistant with it year after year, not change the criteria to suit your player. I much rather see all trophies be judge by a computer algorithms then by votes. The problem with vote base things is that they are extremly biased and arbitrary. It is better if tropies goes by hard cold facts and not opinions that are very easily influenced by other things.

Accoriding to NHL.com Doughy is a favorite to win the norris this year apperntly, even if he is far behind the scoring leader. So i guess he would win it if the season ended now. That would mean.

2013: Subban (canadian) wins both the scoring race and norris
2014: Karlsson (none canadian), win the scoring race, Keith (canadian) far behind him wins the norris
2015: Karlsson wins both the scoring race and norris
2016: Karlsson win the scoring race, Doughty (canadian) about 30p(!) behind wins norris
2017: Burns (canadian) wins both the scoring race and norris
2018 Klingberg (none canadian) is leading the scoring race with a big margin, but Doughty far behind is favorite to win the norris

So lets see, lately when a canadian wins the scoring race they have won norris 2 out of 2 times here, when a none canadian have won the race, they have won 1 out of 4 times , and who have won instead of them? 3 out of 3 times canadians.

Why not just call it for what it is, best canadian d-men. Why preteding that is about the best d-men, when even a player 30p behind win it. Even if it is not just about nationality, it is still a very arbitrary trophy, and how can a arbitrary trophy be taken seriously?

If I am for or against a new trophy? I do not know, i rather see them change the existent tropies so they stop being so biased and arbitrary. But if they cant, then why not. That at least make it easier to remember who really was the best d-men that year.

if this represents a swedes attitude it's really not hard to see why they get spanked by Canada in international competition all the time.

 

[Treb]

Bourque-- All time leader in points and scored more goals then Coffey in a bit less games but no Gretzky or Messier etc with him in Boston.

I thought about Bourque and Potvin as well and they would also be possibilities. I just think when you think D scoring, Orr and Coffey stand out (they are the only ones over a ppg and are 1st and 3rd in gpg respectively, Potvin is second, as well). I'd take Bourque on my team 10/1o times over Coffey though.

 

[Iapyi]

After last years playoffs I would say most hockey experts indeed think he is the best defenceman. Don't forget how good he is just because he can't skate like he normally does this season after his massive foot injuries. He is not the best in all categories, but the total package and his ability to take over games are second to none as the entire world clearly saw last spring

that's okay i won't forget exactly what he is as a player. he is really good at the offensive side of the game and i see no problem with him being a dman. but the narrative that he is good defensively or the unquestionable best at his position is bullpoop.

 

[tony d]

It would be a great idea for a trophy, I know it's been suggested before but nothing ever came of it. Be good to see it.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Robert G. Orr Trophy

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Norris should basically always goes to the one that score the most. Maybe you can take other things in consider if there is only 1-2 points between, but more than that and it should not be any question, but if you shall look at other things than points, then you have to be very clear about what specificly and be consistant with it year after year, not change the criteria to suit your player.

See this thread - http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/highest-scoring-defenseman-vs-norris-trophy-winner.1865187/

Over the history of the Norris trophy (dating back to 1953-54), the Norris trophy winner was the highest-scoring defenseman 33 times (52%). Another 15 were runner-up and 4 more finished third. In total 52 of the highest scoring defensemen each year (83%) were finalists for the Norris trophy. Some recent exceptions include Erik Karlsson in 2014 (7th), Lubomir Visnovsky in 2011 (4th), Sergei Gonchar in 2004 (9th), Sergei Gonchar again in 2002 (4th), and Brian Leetch in 2001 (5th).

Looking at it another way - the Norris trophy winner scored at least 80% as much as the highest-scoring defenseman 51 times (81%). Some recent exceptions include Drew Doughty in 2016 (scored 62% as much as the highest-scoring defenseman) and Zdeno Chara in 2009 (69%). Before that you'd have to go back Chris Chelios in 1989 and 1993 (65% and 75% respectively).

Going back to the topic, I don't like the idea of creating a Bobby Orr trophy for best offensive defensemen, as it would probably create a misconception that Orr wasn't great defensively.

I much rather see all trophies be judge by a computer algorithms then by votes. The problem with vote base things is that they are extremly biased and arbitrary. It is better if tropies goes by hard cold facts and not opinions that are very easily influenced by other things

Who would design the computer algorithms? How would we ensure that the algorithms aren't designed in a biased or arbitrary way?

 

[TheBradyBunch]

I feel like the Jennings is conceptually close enough to a wins trophy as to not matter. An assist trophy I'd be down with. Would be an easy tribute to one of the greatest athletes of all time, any sport.

They will do this when he "is no more" but I doubt any sooner.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Who would design the computer algorithms? How would we ensure that the algorithms aren't designed in a biased or arbitrary way?

We could have members of the media vote on it

 

[GeeoffBrown]

The Orr and the Norris would just go to the same guy every year.

 

[Smart Alek]

Robert G. Orr Trophy

Exactly... what would it take to get this going?

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Exactly... what would it take to get this going?

I happen to personally know a couple 'well-known' hockey commentators (Dave Randorf was the best minor-league hockey coach in White Rock history EVER... for me, anyways), so this is a serious question.

I have no idea what it would take, but I'd like to see it.