The Battle for USA-CAN Dual Citizen Players

[McMatthews]

Oh, they wouldn't even know what was happening to them.

Late saturday nights with ice cream floats and bags of potato chips while watching videos of the 72 summit series and other various glorious Canadian hockey victories all the while whispering to them tales of what it was like and what it all means to Canadians and how they really are Canadians.

It would be in the bag, tatooed into their conscience with borg like precision until it just became natural by age 10 at the latest.

This.

Ask Sean Day.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

What could be more significant then that?

I think you (and many posters) over-emphasize patriotism as a prime factor for dual-citizens on which country to represent.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

I think you (and many posters) over-emphasize patriotism as a prime factor for dual-citizens on which country to represent.

Apparently so.

However, it would be the prime consideration for me, and I feel it should be for our players that stay down there and have kids.

 

[CRRhockey]

I think you (and many posters) over-emphasize patriotism as a prime factor for dual-citizens on which country to represent.

I so agree with this comment. We are talking about kids who ultimately want to have a professional career in Hockey. There are pros and cons to the US program but the NTDP is at another level altogether for development and the kids retain their NCAA eligibility. The CHL offers a possibly faster track to the NHL.

For the kids that are fortunate to have dual citizenship, they are lucky to have options. Also, remember that the kids that were raised by two parents with different nationalities they have pride for both countries. I think the kid should pick the program based on what is best for them, I would.

 

[New User Name]

Yeah Chychrun looks inclined to play for Canada, for whatever reason. Does anyone actually know why he actually wants to play for Canada? My only thought is that he was angry about not being granted the option of playing in the USHL at a younger age than allowable.

I read somewhere that his family came to Canada every summer.

Same goes for Logan Brown, I believe the family has a summer home near Ottawa.

I guess if your family comes back in the summer and most of your family is Canadian, you might be inclined to feel as much (or more) Canadian as American.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

This.

Ask Sean Day.

Damn straight!!

You get it.

 

[McMatthews]

I think you (and many posters) over-emphasize patriotism as a prime factor for dual-citizens on which country to represent.

It's not necessarily patriotism.

Sean Day was raised in the USA and he said that he wanted to play for Canada because his parents raised them as Canadians. He had exposure to the culture of Hockey Canada as a child and it naturally grew to become his identity. The same is possible for Canadian born/raised guys who choose to play for another nation. Except in these cases, it's usually because they weren't good enough at the time to crack the Canadian WJC team.

 

[CRRhockey]

It's not necessarily patriotism.

Sean Day was raised in the USA and he said that he wanted to play for Canada because his parents raised them as Canadians. He had exposure to the culture of Hockey Canada as a child and it naturally grew to become his identity. The same is possible for Canadian born/raised guys who choose to play for another nation. Except in these cases, it's usually because they weren't good enough at the time to crack the Canadian WJC team.

Regarding the Canadian raised kids playing in the US, credit the USA NTDP for attracting some very top Cdn born players.

 

[AHB*]

I think the IIHF operates much like the U.N. Security Council, if you are 1 of the big 5, you pretty much can tell the IIHF how it's going to go down.

Same thing happened with Petr Nedved this year. He played for Canada in 1994, but played for the Czechs this season.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

Regarding the Canadian raised kids playing in the US, credit the USA NTDP for attracting some very top Cdn born players.

Well that should never be a concern for Canadian parent kids, especially if it is the dad who is the father and especially if he is or was an NHL player.It should not matter if the NTDP can offer them paradise with 20 virgins, it should have been long ago nurtured and implanted on their kids the desire to play for Canada if hockey is their chosen sport. It should be made as natural as breathing air. You work on their head early and often.

You just should,nay, it is your responsibility to grind it into their heads at an early age that when it comes to hockey should they choose it as a sport that they have no other choice other then to play for Canada should the opportunity arise.

I just don't get where these guys heads are at, it is like they have forgotten everything once they get some money stuffed up their bums.

A total lack of responsibility on their part of a priceless duty and heirloom that has been entrusted to them

Their behaviour baffles and disgusts me.

 

[Xokkeu]

I think you'll figure it out if you have kids. I mean they might end up gay, they might not even like sports or they may just hate you so much they'll be Yankee fans. They are going to be who they are, and what you want them to be is only going to be a small factor. My own cousin drove his sports obsessed father insane because he didn't really care about sports and preferred to work on his car.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

I think you'll figure it out if you have kids. I mean they might end up gay, they might not even like sports or they may just hate you so much they'll be Yankee fans. They are going to be who they are, and what you want them to be is only going to be a small factor. My own cousin drove his sports obsessed father insane because he didn't really care about sports and preferred to work on his car.

Hey, I'm a Yankees fan!! Been my b-ball team since a little kid When The Louisiana Lightning, Thurman Munson(God rest his soul) and mr october ruled the roost.

If they end up that way i'll be quite pleased.

And you underestimate my powers of persuasion/manipulation regarding how they would turn out should any kids of mine ever have athletic talent and became great hockey players yet were raised in the U.S.

They would be playing for Canada, don't doubt me for a second on that.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

It's become an issue in which born and bred Canadians who have dual citizenship choosing to play for the NTDP & thus the States for developmental advantage purposes. Thomas Bordeleau, Dylan Peterson, EJ Emery, William Moore, Dayne Beuker, Sam Wathier are just a few examples of those who played all of their minor hockey in Canada but loopholed their way into playing for the NTDP & the States.

 

[MuckOG]

It's become an issue in which born and bred Canadians who have dual citizenship choosing to play for the NTDP & thus the States for developmental advantage purposes. Thomas Bordeleau, Dylan Peterson, EJ Emery, William Moore, Dayne Beuker, Sam Wathier are just a few examples of those who played all of their minor hockey in Canada but loopholed their way into playing for the NTDP & the States.

A loophole is defined as an "ambiguity in a law or set of rules". There's nothing ambiguous about these examples; they are US citizens thus eligible to play for USA Hockey.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

A loophole is defined as an "ambiguity in a law or set of rules". There's nothing ambiguous about these examples; they are US citizens thus eligible to play for USA Hockey.

If you want to get technical, sure. It feels weird to me that kids who were completely developed in the Canadian minor hockey system & grew up in Canada don't play for Canada internationally and use the NTDP as a developmental advantage, taking spots away from born and bred kids from Plymouth Minnesota, Bloomfield Hills Michigan, Scituate Massachusetts, etc.

 

[Jovavic]

Almost ten year old thread bump, nice, I was still married to my first wife when this thread was made

 

[NyQuil]

If you want to get technical, sure. It feels weird to me that kids who were completely developed in the Canadian minor hockey system & grew up in Canada don't play for Canada internationally and use the NTDP as a developmental advantage, taking spots away from born and bred kids from Plymouth Minnesota, Bloomfield Hills Michigan, Scituate Massachusetts, etc.

There are international players who play in the CHL (to Don Cherry’s endless frustration).

I don’t really see the difference.

No one is forcing the NTDP to select dual nationals which means that they must see an advantage to doing so.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

There are international players who play in the CHL (to Don Cherry’s endless frustration).

I don’t really see the difference.

No one is forcing the NTDP to select dual nationals which means that they must see an advantage to doing so.

Mr Nyquil, that happens in every league. That is fine. The NTDP is a unique thing where it directly results in kids playing for the States in international competitions. Robertson brothers playing in the CHL doesn't result in them playing for Canada internationally, they're not Canadian nor quasi Canadian.

My point is if I'm a borderline Tier 1/Tier 2 level of talent born and bred in the States, I wouldn't feel great about losing a spot at the NTDP and thus likely international tournaments because Dayne Beuker's mom is from the States so he gets to play here despite being a born and bred Canadian, for all intents and purposes.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Almost ten year old thread bump, nice, I was still married to my first wife when this thread was made

I was still in high school when you registered on this site. And yet I am 38 years old.

 

[NyQuil]

Mr Nyquil, that happens in every league. That is fine. The NTDP is a unique thing where it directly results in kids playing for the States in international competitions. Robertson brothers playing in the CHL doesn't result in them playing for Canada internationally, they're not Canadian nor quasi Canadian.

My point is if I'm a borderline Tier 1/Tier 2 level of talent born and bred in the States, I wouldn't feel great about losing a spot at the NTDP and thus likely international tournaments because Dayne Beuker's mom is from the States so he gets to play here despite being a born and bred Canadian, for all intents and purposes.

Meanwhile, USA Hockey is thanking the gods that Dayne Beuker’s Mom is American so that the NTDP can select him over who they perceive is a lesser talent.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I'll join in the necro-bump by saying that USA Hockey's fixation with duals over the years hasn't really amounted to much. Shoot, most of the players who have had any success professionally have decided to represent Canada internationally.

 

[cg98]

If you want to get technical, sure. It feels weird to me that kids who were completely developed in the Canadian minor hockey system & grew up in Canada don't play for Canada internationally and use the NTDP as a developmental advantage, taking spots away from born and bred kids from Plymouth Minnesota, Bloomfield Hills Michigan, Scituate Massachusetts, etc.

Kids from those states can still grab up USHL spots in the same league. Teams like Chicago, Fargo, Dubuque and Muskegon are excellent programs for these kids outside of the NTDP. League depth and talent gets better every year and is coming from everywhere in the country. But I do see where youre coming from. Lots of Canadian kids in general are heading towards the US development model all together.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think people often look at this stuff completely wrong.

Why is where you played your minor hockey important? Do you think any of the children of Russians that play in the NHL are extremely patriotic towards USA or Canada that condemn the nation of their heritage at every turn for political reasons? Children of European NHL’ers likely don’t even speak English at home.

It’s also weird that the IIHF has this policy where they’ll force you to play for a country you feel no real allegiance to over one you have true allegiance for because of where your family lived while you grew up. Does the USA deserve credit if Ovechkin’s son becomes a pro hockey player? Or would it likely be because of the pedigree in the sport of his father and how he had early influences to put a lot of time and effort into the sport?

Let players play for any country they want to that they can qualify for citizenship under. And it’s not up to anyone to institute a purity test of their allegiance to that country if they say that’s who they want to represent.

There are all these stupid arguments about how China or Saudi Arabia or whoever will start naturalizing a bunch of Canadians or Russians or Americans or whoever as a reason not to use that as the eligibility standards in international hockey and it all seems so stupid. There’s no indication this would actually become a real problem. Only pretty illogical fears some voice, and I don’t know why it would actually be a bad thing if some different countries want to invest in the sport than others in the past. Is it really a bad thing if someone wants to replace the teams in the top groups of IIHF tournaments that lose by 10 goals to Canada or USA?

 

[Hockeyville USA]

I think people often look at this stuff completely wrong.

Why is where you played your minor hockey important? Do you think any of the children of Russians that play in the NHL are extremely patriotic towards USA or Canada that condemn the nation of their heritage at every turn for political reasons? Children of European NHL’ers likely don’t even speak English at home.

It’s also weird that the IIHF has this policy where they’ll force you to play for a country you feel no real allegiance to over one you have true allegiance for because of where your family lived while you grew up. Does the USA deserve credit if Ovechkin’s son becomes a pro hockey player? Or would it likely be because of the pedigree in the sport of his father and how he had early influences to put a lot of time and effort into the sport?

Let players play for any country they want to that they can qualify for citizenship under. And it’s not up to anyone to institute a purity test of their allegiance to that country if they say that’s who they want to represent.

There are all these stupid arguments about how China or Saudi Arabia or whoever will start naturalizing a bunch of Canadians or Russians or Americans or whoever as a reason not to use that as the eligibility standards in international hockey and it all seems so stupid. There’s no indication this would actually become a real problem. Only pretty illogical fears some voice, and I don’t know why it would actually be a bad thing if some different countries want to invest in the sport than others in the past. Is it really a bad thing if someone wants to replace the teams in the top groups of IIHF tournaments that lose by 10 goals to Canada or USA?

Dayne Beuker was born in Canada, raised in Canada, played his minor hockey in Canada, and is allowed to play for the NTDP just because his mom is from the States, and thus he takes a spot away from kids actually from the States. I know the rules are the rules, but that doesn't prevent me from having a sour taste about those rules and the process.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Dayne Beuker was born in Canada, raised in Canada, played his minor hockey in Canada, and is allowed to play for the NTDP just because his mom is from the States, and thus he takes a spot away from kids actually from the States. I know the rules are the rules, but that doesn't prevent me from having a sour taste about those rules and the process.

What if he roots for the USA in Olympic sports and celebrates American Thanksgiving at home instead of Canadian? I don’t see why where he grew up should matter. He’s considered American for citizenship reasons.

I don’t see the NTDP as a big development team either. It’s more of a showcase team for NHL draft prospects. Not like these players are 9 years old and no one has a clue if they will amount to pro hockey players and it’s a question of developing random kids growing up in USA or Canada.

He’s taking the place of someone who most likely isn’t that good at hockey and won’t matter towards American hockey very much. This is a competitive Junior national team. Take the best players. Don’t care where they grew up.