The Battle for USA-CAN Dual Citizen Players

[Bjorn Le]

They did enforced this by not allowing Stefan Matteau to play for the US in the U18.

But they didn't with Galchenyuk (who had clearly not played two years in the US). See what I mean by inconsistent application of the rule.

 

[AtNightWeFly]

I think the IIHF operates much like the U.N. Security Council, if you are 1 of the big 5, you pretty much can tell the IIHF how it's going to go down.

I think he can play for both because of that whole Soviet Union thing. He might be from Kazakhstan but he's clearly an ethnic Russian. Same thing with Anton Khudobin. I don't think its a conspiracy at all.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

But they didn't with Galchenyuk (who had clearly not played two years in the US). See what I mean by inconsistent application of the rule.

Like someone else pointed out, he forfeited his Russian citizenship.

http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2012/06/12/the-curious-case-of-alex-galchenyuk/

 

[Bjorn Le]

Like someone else pointed out, he forfeited his Russian citizenship.

http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2012/06/12/the-curious-case-of-alex-galchenyuk/

That is not what the article says. It says he gave up his Russian passport, which is a fancy way of saying he's using his American one instead of his Russian one. Nik Antropov uses his Canadian passport but he hasn't renounced his Kazakh citizenship.

The IIHF chose not to enforce their eligibility rules on Galchenyuk. That's why he wasn't deemed ineligible. That is the only answer we can logically deduce because there is nothing to suggest Galchenyuk is not still a citizen of Russia.

 

[canuck2010]

Not to start a war where and maybe I'm being over sensitive but in my 61 years I've always gotten the impression that in the USA Canadian citizenship is often overlooked by many Americans. Kind of like they were born in the USA so that's all that matters. Not scientific just an impression that I've formed over a long period of time. Why can't a kid born to someone making a living in the USA not still claim his heritage.

That being said it's a free world and folks can decide on their own. Each would have their own reasons for wanting to be considered American or Canadian.

Tell you what give us Missy Franklin back lol.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Say always pick your fathers nationality

God damn, that's patriarchal.

 

[canuck2010]

More Canadian born players choose to settle in the US after playing days are finished than the other way around. US wins on that. Thank you Canada.

I hate it but that's the way it is. Nothing burns me more than playing the sons of Canadian hockey players in international play. When we start to lose it will be even more galling. Suck it up.

Is Phil Kessel having any kids soon?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I hate it but that's the way it is. Nothing burns me more than playing the sons of Canadian hockey players in international play. When we start to lose it will be even more galling. Suck it up.

Is Phil Kessel having any kids soon?

Have you seen Phil Kessel?

 

[3 Minute Minor]

That is not what the article says. It says he gave up his Russian passport, which is a fancy way of saying he's using his American one instead of his Russian one. Nik Antropov uses his Canadian passport but he hasn't renounced his Kazakh citizenship.

The IIHF chose not to enforce their eligibility rules on Galchenyuk. That's why he wasn't deemed ineligible. That is the only answer we can logically deduce because there is nothing to suggest Galchenyuk is not still a citizen of Russia.

No actually that's the complete opposite of what the article says what you're spouting off is your own conspiracy theory.

You can't just "use" one of your passports and pretend that's enough. Just this past season a kid on the Great Britain U20 team was deemed ineligible when they found out he held both a Canadian & British passport. It ended with their team being relegated. Ironically they were also the country to propose the rule change from 12+2 years to 10+2 years so the player that caused the problems is probably eligible now.

If Galchenyuk didn't forfeit his Russian passport, don't you think the Russians would have something to say about this? They'd be proving he still held a Russian passport which would result in USA being relegated at every level he represented USA at (U20 & Senior Men's World Championships).

 

[New User Name]

I hate it but that's the way it is. Nothing burns me more than playing the sons of Canadian hockey players in international play. When we start to lose it will be even more galling. Suck it up.

Is Phil Kessel having any kids soon?

Kessel lives in the US during the off season. I think most American players playing in Canada do.

I think most American NBA, MLB and CFL and NHL players have a temporary home in Canada and permanent one in the US.

Contrast that to Canadian players in the US, permanent in the US and some have a temporary one in Canada.

We all know what Antonio Davis, the former Raptor said about his kids going to school in Canada. Then there was Steve Francis of the Vancouver Grizzlies who refused to play in Canada.

Americans are far more patriotic than Canadians. It's starts in kindergarten with the pledge of allegiance. American history is prominent in US schools. The good, well behaved, morally right Patriots vs the Big bad British
Drive down any street in the US, chances are you'll see American flags galore, especially in middle class areas. NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT before someone accuses me of being anti-American.
Drive down any street in Canada chances are you won't see a Canadian flag.

I remember reading about an American player playing for Edmonton who sent his wife home when she was due so the baby would be born in the states. Not sure if true or BS.

So, in summary. Most American players playing in Canada have a permanent home in the US and retire in the US.

Canadian players playing in the US have a permanent home in the states with some having temporary homes (cottages) in Canada but retire in the US.

European players playing in North America usually go back home after they retire.

This years USNTDP has I think 4 or 5 players with Canadian roots.

I recall someone saying that if you have lots of $$$ the US with their gated communities and excellent health care and private schools is the place to be. Might be true.

 

[Systemfel]

Have you seen Phil Kessel?

Have you seen Kessel's contract?

 

[Brooklanders*]

Not to start a war where and maybe I'm being over sensitive but in my 61 years I've always gotten the impression that in the USA Canadian citizenship is often overlooked by many Americans. Kind of like they were born in the USA so that's all that matters. Not scientific just an impression that I've formed over a long period of time. Why can't a kid born to someone making a living in the USA not still claim his heritage.

That being said it's a free world and folks can decide on their own. Each would have their own reasons for wanting to be considered American or Canadian.

Tell you what give us Missy Franklin back lol.

This is very true. No one cares about ancestry or who's parent is what or how many countries you can claim citizenship from and certainly not how many years a person has played hockey in a country.
Americans care about where you were born. It only comes into play when its convenient I.e. Brett Hull.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Not to start a war where and maybe I'm being over sensitive but in my 61 years I've always gotten the impression that in the USA Canadian citizenship is often overlooked by many Americans. Kind of like they were born in the USA so that's all that matters. Not scientific just an impression that I've formed over a long period of time. Why can't a kid born to someone making a living in the USA not still claim his heritage.

That being said it's a free world and folks can decide on their own. Each would have their own reasons for wanting to be considered American or Canadian.

Tell you what give us Missy Franklin back lol.

They most certainly can. I typed out a damn good answer but my computer crashed!

A perfect example of a player representing his heritage is Liam Stewart (WHL - Spokane Chiefs). He is the son of Rod Stewart (GBR) and Rachel Hunter (NZ) which I hear were pretty famous. He was born in London, England but he grew up in Los Angeles. He holds a a passport for both Great Britain & New Zealand, he does not hold an American passport even though he walks and talks like a typical American teenager. He went to the IIHF, he applied to represent Great Britain, and he was successful despite not meeting the criteria of playing 2 seasons past age 12 (at the time, it has since been changed to 10). Before the IIHF ruling, he technically wasn't eligible to play for any country under IIHF rules. This past season he played for GB at the U20 World Championships group 1B.

IIHF can't force you to represent a country that you don't hold a passport for & they'd also come off looking pretty bad if they deemed a kid completely ineligible for any country while holding one or more passports.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

I hate it but that's the way it is. Nothing burns me more than playing the sons of Canadian hockey players in international play. When we start to lose it will be even more galling. Suck it up.

Does Jansen Harkins even things out?

 

[3 Minute Minor]

As for the Canada vs. USA thing, Canadian/USA dual nats are more likely to be born to Canadian parents in US.

from the U18 teams since 2000-01:
Patrick Eaves (born to American father playing pro in Canada)
Cam Fowler
Brandon Maxwell
Colin Wilson
Taylor Chorney
Chris Holt
Patrick O'Sullivan
Jason Bailey (even played U17 with Team Ontario)
Zach Parise (born to Canadian father playing pro in USA)
Phil McRae (born to Canadian father playing pro in USA)
Justin Vaive (born to Canadian father playing pro in USA)
Nolan Stevens (born to Canadian father playing pro in USA)
Conor Murphy (born to Canadian father playing pro in USA)
Tyler Biggs (born to Canadian father playing pro in USA)
Ryan Bourque (born to Canadian father playing pro in USA)

USA ^ --------- Canada v

Tyler Myers
Eric Locke
Dylan Olsen (born to Canadian father playing pro in USA)
Curtis Hamilton (born to Canadian father playing pro in USA)
Dan Audette (born to Canadian father playing pro in USA)
Kerby Rychel (born to Canadian father playing pro in USA)
BJ Crombeen (born to Canadian father playing pro in USA)

 

[JackSlater]

Is Day a US citizen? Kevin Dineen played most of his minor hockey in the U.S. but I think he was only a Canadian citizen at the time.

Right you are on Day. He doesn't have citizenship, just trained in the United States. I don't like the prospect of him playing for Canada going forward, but that's the way the rules are set up. I've never heard anything about Dineen growing up in the United States.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Have you seen Kessel's contract?

Fair point.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Good thread.

I think this will be more of an issue going forward. NHL players that have kids born in America, could choose either route, almost like recruiting. Europe included.

Surely a thing to track.

(Canada gave the US Nickelback, so, a couple of good young players is a decent start as payment.)

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

Americans are far more patriotic than Canadians. It's starts in kindergarten with the pledge of allegiance. American history is prominent in US schools. The good, well behaved, morally right Patriots vs the Big bad British
Drive down any street in the US, chances are you'll see American flags galore, especially in middle class areas. NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT before someone accuses me of being anti-American.
Drive down any street in Canada chances are you won't see a Canadian flag.

Ehh, Canada is pretty patriot too. Canada has a TON more Canadian flags flying on their cars than the USA and many have Canadian flags (whether they're big or small) on their front porch..

 

[chunkylover53]

I think it is interesting in that chances are, kids who father was an NHL pro's will likely be born during their playing careers, and thus born in the USA. No one knows the exact numbers on how many stay in the US or go back to Canada, although it's more likely for a Canadian playing in the US to stay there post career than a US playing in Canada.

Is Day a US citizen? Kevin Dineen played most of his minor hockey in the U.S. but I think he was only a Canadian citizen at the time.

Day wasn't never a question to begin with because he never had US citizenship. He doesn't even have citizenship in the country he was born in, Belgium, because of their rules. Basically he only has Canadian citizenship but train a bunch in the US because his parents moved around for business. For Day to even be eligible to the US his parents would have to be naturalized first, or he'd have to wait until he's old enough to get citizenship. But there's no indication that they even want to do that. Most likely we'll seen Day in the U18?

 

[chunkylover53]

Not to start a war where and maybe I'm being over sensitive but in my 61 years I've always gotten the impression that in the USA Canadian citizenship is often overlooked by many Americans. Kind of like they were born in the USA so that's all that matters. Not scientific just an impression that I've formed over a long period of time. Why can't a kid born to someone making a living in the USA not still claim his heritage.

That being said it's a free world and folks can decide on their own. Each would have their own reasons for wanting to be considered American or Canadian.

Tell you what give us Missy Franklin back lol.

You do have cases of duals born in the US playing for Canada. But the extreme cases are ones like Hull,Pominville, Deadmarsh who was born and raised in Canada and their fathers were also Canadian (some pro players) and use their mothers American citizenship. But in these cases it was probably more about getting a chance to play than any type of identification.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

I've never heard anything about Dineen growing up in the United States.

His Dad coached all over the US, he grew up mostly in Seattle. He went back up to Toronto when he was around 16.

 

[Fusbolito]

(Canada gave the US Nickelback, so, a couple of good young players is a decent start as payment.)

This has always made me laugh. I'm in no way making fun of your point, because Canada should probably apologize for Nickelback, but the US has put out far more dreck in volume than Canada has, but you never see anyone saying that the US has to apologize for, like, Creed, or Lindsey Lohan.

Just a statement I find odd.

On topic, you should play for whatever country you feel a more permanent attachment to, IMO. If that means the US when you're born in Canada, godspeed.

 

[CRRhockey]

This has always made me laugh. I'm in no way making fun of your point, because Canada should probably apologize for Nickelback, but the US has put out far more dreck in volume than Canada has, but you never see anyone saying that the US has to apologize for, like, Creed, or Lindsey Lohan.

Just a statement I find odd.

On topic, you should play for whatever country you feel a more permanent attachment to, IMO. If that means the US when you're born in Canada, godspeed.

I think that for the dual citizen kids, they kind of have one foot in both countries because they have extended family in both countries. In the end, it comes down to the best fit. The NTDP has made the US option very appealing, IMO.

 

[chunkylover53]

Has there been a case opposite of Hull, Pominville, Deadmarsh?

Where their fathers were American hockey players/figures and they were born and raised in America but played for Canada (dual because of Canadian mother).