OT: The Avalounge but every time someone posts the quality declines

[Foppberg]

That's also true and it should be taken into account.

Then again, I'm studying in a female dominated field, and I fully expect quick employment, and to move up the ladder faster. Ambition is a big factor, but the social structure affords me the ambition.

What's your field again? Teaching?

This is a pretty sensitive topic so I don't wanna go too much farther down this rabbit hole, but all I'll say is that there definitely is sexism, and racism, at some level no matter where you go, that's just undeniable. But I don't think it's universally a major root cause for these types of issues, I think it can be a slight factor, but there's a multitude of reasons why things they are the way they are. And as the older generations start to retire I see statistics like the one you posted changing more and more in the opposite direction, if the social climate continues to move in the direction it's moving.

SEPH is articulating it better than I am, maybe one day I'll post an essay esque post on here about it , it's a really interesting conversation to have I find, unfortunately it quickly turns heated so it can be difficult to talk about with people.

 

[S E P H]

That's also true and it should be taken into account.

Then again, I'm studying in a female dominated field, and I fully expect quick employment, and to move up the ladder faster. Ambition is a big factor, but the social structure affords me the ambition.

Based on the statistics I provided which you can take with a grain of salt if you like, but the first one is by Forbes based off the US Bureau of Labor and the second is by Times Magazine. You're more likely to climb the corporate ladder because you as a man are more willing to grind it out when it comes to hours instead of an average woman. Hilarious, you're more likely to be paid less if a woman shows the same amount of ambition as you do. So in the end it comes down to individuality of " said person" instead of groups.

Of course this applies only in America, it might be different in Finland.

 

[Bonzai12]

I’m too lazy to look it up right now, but any time people talk about demographics and %’s it’d be nice to know the baseline.

I would venture to guess at least 60% of the US population is white, so yeah I’d expect most companies to have 60% employment of whites. And if 80% of the population who has a college degree is white, then I’d expect the employment of whites to be around 80% as well. Etc... etc....

If a large % of minorities do not have degrees, then you don’t have a corporate problem , and the %’s should not be high - you have an education problem.

 

[UncleRisto]

So now we're debating men versus women now yes? Because those statistics are not only/just "white men" in the first one by the way.


Your first graph can be countered with this...
According to the 2015 American Time Use Survey by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics



...not only that, but this...



So if you work the same job and the same hours as a women, you're more than likely to earn higher pay than a man. The problem why the discrepancy of F500 companies seem widely strange is because majority of women don't work full hour jobs or beyond the 40 per hour work week. As for your second graphic, well duh dude, there are statistically more white people in NA and Europe than there are of different races. Of course more white men and women will have more jobs than minorities. They're called minorities for a reason, and in the dictionary by Marriam-Websiter, the definition of it is "the smaller in number of two groups constituting a whole". To conclude, the second graphic does nothing to convince me that white privilege is a determining factor. I actually provided you factual evidence that it is a CENTRAL factor against white people when it comes to getting into medical school. I am not arguing that white privilege doesn't exist, it absolutely did, but to the degree people think it is in modern life I am not buying it. This is a good debate though, really enjoying it.

I appreciate the thoughtful response, and admit that my argument isn't very strong, for I don't pretend to know about or have researched the topic. While some of the graphs I provided admittedly don't offer much value, further research on why women are less willing to "tough it out" with hours and all that is something that could prove interesting. A sociological approach perhaps to why I am more ambitious than someone else, and why others are striving for more than I am. I do agree that behind promotions and employment related issues, there are always other factors that are more important. Productivity and what have you.

My original thought, however, was more aimed towards the societal effects of white privilege in everyday life, rather than in business. As a white Finnish male born to Finnish upper middle class parents, of Finnish descent, in Finland, there is not a single thing I would ever think my sex or ethnicity could prevent me from pursuing or achieving in my own country. This has to have a psychological effect. Humans we are a species that categorizes ourselves, and sex and ethnicity are the easiest divisions we can perform. The Finnish majority person isn't going to see me and think "a white person", but so help me God if he doesn't classify a minority as a minority (this including white minorities). This isn't automatically a hindrance to the person, but it has to affect things. Perhaps not traditional white privilege, but a majority is always, always privileged to be a majority.

Worth noting here is that my experiences are from a country with a very white native population.

I’m too lazy to look it up right now, but any time people talk about demographics and %’s it’d be nice to know the baseline.

I would venture to guess at least 60% of the US population is white, so yeah I’d expect most companies to have 60% employment of whites. And if 80% of the population who has a college degree is white, then I’d expect the employment of whites to be around 80% as well. Etc... etc....

If a large % of minorities do not have degrees, then you don’t have a corporate problem , and the %’s should not be high - you have an education problem.

Very salient point. I'd venture a guess that tendencies regarding education are actually very much key to any issues of this kind. Should any such questions arise from those numbers, it would then be important to investigate why let's say women or minorities don't pursue as high a level of education or something similar.

 

[hockeyfish]

My dad bought a 3d printer and now I'm trying to figure out how to furnish an apartment with it. I think it might be a bit undersized to make a couch though.

 

[McMetal]

I hate that everyone has to be a “group” fighting for their rights - feminists, blacks, whites, LGBT, etc.. It’s like we’re all in damn high school cliques and attack each other. Nobody’s more important than any other “group” - if we all just treat each other like humans that’s all that matters!

I get overly sensitive on this type of stuff - but what happened to you Lonewolfe.....that stuff kinda pisses me off.

The problem is, the only way to get anything is to organize into a group. If you just fight battles individually, you lose. You have to unify and fight and make people uncomfortable if change is going to happen. We're not yet at the point where we can pretend that everybody is equal. It should be that way, but it's not yet, and until then, white men are going to have to feel uncomfortable for a bit. We've been spending too much time ignoring uncomfortable things and that's why things aren't better yet.

 

[Foppberg]

Being sexist and/or racist isn't a good way to work towards a cause.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I find it hilarious when groups get together to fight a cause and end up being just as rascist/sexist or whatever as the group they’re fighting. Seems like so many people don’t realize how hypocritical they’re being.

 

[Landeslog]

Didn’t read ALL that. But just a quick chime in: women most definitely aren’t encouraged from a very young age to pursue male dominated careers. I don’t think it’s an ambition issue or an intelligence issue. It comes down to how we’re raising children. There’s only so much you can do on the hiring side when there are only so many candidates that are qualified.


Anyways, Bourbon Street is an absolutely terrible place to be pregnant.

 

[McMetal]

Being sexist and/or racist isn't a good way to work towards a cause.

Pointing out that the races and sexes are not equal isn't the same as being racist and sexist. I may be white and male, but I've spoken to enough people who aren't those things to know that what we are feeling right now is not NEARLY as unpleasant as what people who actually experience racism/sexism feel on a daily basis. These things are about a power imbalance, and no matter what, we can never be in as much social or physical danger as women, gays, and minorities are because we, as white men, have the power. The power balance shifting more towards equality is not the same thing as being oppressed.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

True equality will never be a thing

 

[S E P H]

Pointing out that the races and sexes are not equal isn't the same as being racist and sexist. I may be white and male, but I've spoken to enough people who aren't those things to know that what we are feeling right now is not NEARLY as unpleasant as what people who actually experience racism/sexism feel on a daily basis. These things are about a power imbalance, and no matter what, we can never be in as much social or physical danger as women, gays, and minorities are because we, as white men, have the power. The power balance shifting more towards equality is not the same thing as being oppressed.

Man that's quite the anecdotal here.

The problem is, the only way to get anything is to organize into a group. If you just fight battles individually, you lose. You have to unify and fight and make people uncomfortable if change is going to happen. We're not yet at the point where we can pretend that everybody is equal. It should be that way, but it's not yet, and until then, white men are going to have to feel uncomfortable for a bit. We've been spending too much time ignoring uncomfortable things and that's why things aren't better yet.

Joining groups is another word for tribalism and last time I chequed tribalism doesn't really lead anywhere except hating every other group that you're not part of...

 

[The Abusement Park]

Didn’t read ALL that. But just a quick chime in: women most definitely aren’t encouraged from a very young age to pursue male dominated careers. I don’t think it’s an ambition issue or an intelligence issue. It comes down to how we’re raising children. There’s only so much you can do on the hiring side when there are only so many candidates that are qualified.


Anyways, Bourbon Street is an absolutely terrible place to be pregnant.

Honestly Bourbon Street in general is quite overrated IMO. The French Quarter is so much better.

 

[McMetal]

Man that's quite the anecdotal here.


Joining groups is another word for tribalism and last time I chequed tribalism doesn't really lead anywhere except hating every other group that you're not part of...

So, if something is unjust, you're just supposed to let it go and hope that the people responsible for the injustice come to their senses?

Gay people used to be assaulted and murdered in this country and the defense was literally "He hit on me and I lost my mind" (Gay Panic Defense). Being unable to legally marry one's life partner led to loss of pension, social security, insurance, and estate benefits, and families could bar them from their loved one's deathbeds. They were fired from jobs, rejected by families, and bullied to suicide. When AIDS struck, straight people called it justice and treated men who had it like lepers.

After a while, gay people decided it was time to change things. They organized, made a big public stink about how shitty things were for them, and after 2,000 years of oppression we're able to change the entire landscape in this country in just 30 years. Do you think it would be legal for gay people to marry each other now if they had just patiently waited for people to help them out?

Take literally any example of social progress in American history and you'll see the same pattern. Nothing ever comes of asking people politely. It isn't a very nice thing, but neither is being murdered because you're gay. However bad we have it now with #MeToo and Black Lives Matter, know that it has been way worse for the people on the other side for a long time.

 

[Bonzai12]

True equality will never be a thing

This is unfortunately the truth. Greed’s always going to separate people.

 

[McMetal]

So, to change the subject before we kill the longest Avalounge thread in history... I've been teaching myself card magic for the last few months. It's surprisingly easy once you figure out the basic mechanics of it, and the best part is that you can teach yourself a few basic moves/techniques and then be able to reward yourself by learning some really badass looking tricks to impress people. Then you can keep learning harder and harder stuff to learn more advanced tricks. I've got a long way to go, but I'll just grab a deck of cards during a hockey game or watching TV and practice it over and over again until I get it right.

What blows my mind is how ingenious some of these techniques are. I am continually impressed that other people came up with this stuff. Here's an example that I just finally got the hang of after a few days. I'm not NEARLY as fast as he is, but now that I have the muscle memory for the moves down, I just need to keep going and eventually it will speed up on its own the more I do it. The hard part is done.

 

[Foppberg]

This is unfortunately the truth. Greed’s always going to separate people.

Yup. The problem with most social groups or movements today IMO is 1) that it isn't really about equality for all, but moving their own group up the chain. 2) They're fighting against an injustice, while hypocritically using that injustice to further their cause.

Being in university as an older student it's mind numbing how many times I've heard things like 'you can't be racist against white people, or you can't be sexist against men'.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Finished The Last of Us again. The absolute definition of a 5/10.

I'd love to see something you don't crap on? LOL Never change.

Historically for sure, but in 2018? Not so much.

Well this f***ing hilarious and as equally hilarious as it is dead wrong. Don't believe me look at how the other is portrayed in the media. 90% of the time.

Joining groups is another word for tribalism and last time I chequed tribalism doesn't really lead anywhere except hating every other group that you're not part of...

Tribalism, nationalism pretty much anything that is based on exclusion people have a hard time with.

 

[UncleRisto]

Being in university as an older student it's mind numbing how many times I've heard things like 'you can't be racist against white people, or you can't be sexist against men'.

I will agree that unfortunately many young people in my university today, like yours, have completely distorted views on a number of things, that base on their ideas of equality and correctness. But I won't go into that.

So, to change the subject before we kill the longest Avalounge thread in history... I've been teaching myself card magic for the last few months. It's surprisingly easy once you figure out the basic mechanics of it, and the best part is that you can teach yourself a few basic moves/techniques and then be able to reward yourself by learning some really badass looking tricks to impress people. Then you can keep learning harder and harder stuff to learn more advanced tricks. I've got a long way to go, but I'll just grab a deck of cards during a hockey game or watching TV and practice it over and over again until I get it right.

What blows my mind is how ingenious some of these techniques are. I am continually impressed that other people came up with this stuff. Here's an example that I just finally got the hang of after a few days. I'm not NEARLY as fast as he is, but now that I have the muscle memory for the moves down, I just need to keep going and eventually it will speed up on its own the more I do it. The hard part is done.

Lean on that heavily! Always, ALWAYS open with the ladies with "Pick a card" while holding a fan of cards. And try to work in a lisp if possible.

 

[Bonzai12]

I’m trying to teach myself SQL right now - it’s just so damn hard right now with a new baby. Kids are a definite time investment. But it’s worth it!

 

[expatriatedtexan]

SQL can be either really boring or exciting, it depends on what you want to do, but if you are good at it, you can pretty much punch your own ticket anywhere. I work at a University and find it amazing how we have so many multiple databases to store information (HR, fiscal, student data, registration data, etc) but don't have canned reports that are useful for research when trying to cross reference things. I'm using a program called TOAD which provides a quasi-graphical interface to SQL but it's allowed me to really accomplish a lot at my current job. Being able to understand how multiple data tables can be linked to generate useful reports can make you a pretty in-demand commodity. Hope you enjoy it!

 

[Landeslog]

Honestly Bourbon Street in general is quite overrated IMO. The French Quarter is so much better.

Yeah it’s pretty gross lol.
Friends finished their half marathon this morning so we get to go find the non-disgusting parts of New Orleans now!

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yeah it’s pretty gross lol.
Friends finished their half marathon this morning so we get to go find the non-disgusting parts of New Orleans now!

Yeah when I went to NOLA last year, I remember getting to Bourbon Street and thinking, “This is way grosser than I expected.” I’d definitely recommend the French quarter, it’s a lot of fun and not nearly as gross.

 

[Bonzai12]

Yeah Bourbon St is definitely overrated. Just a bunch of drunks puking all over the place and walking around like zombies. And if you’re really lucky to walk around about 3am you can smell the puke and urine in the streets. Get off Bourbon St if you want to enjoy New Orleans. Preservation Hall is the only place I really liked on Bourbon St, and even then - it’s better to go to a jazz concert off the beaten path vs Preservation Hall.

The Beignet place is overrated too. Powdered sugar everywhere - feels like you’re in a cocaine factory.

 

[21]

Haha :-D some funny reading in the posts above. ;-)

Me and my wife visited New Orleans a couple of years ago too.

Beignet is not overrated ;-) but Bourbon Street definitely is, it's a crazy street, a bizarre experience at least during the weekend. There are for sure very nice spots on this street too though but all the drinking going on is bizarre (too much). I always thought Swedes, Finns and Russians are the worst but obviously not, the drinking going on at the Bourbon Street is at another (pathetic) level. I had to be a bit diplomatic about it because my wife somehow loves New Orleans (this was not her first visit).

I like New Orleans too though but not in the same ecstatic same way my wife does, laid back city, great food (the best restaurants very expensive though), I found good beer too (which helped me to survive the heat in the middle of the summer), tons of good music (if you know where to go), super skilled musicians in all ages. We had some nice visits outside the city as well, boat trip on Mississippi, the swamps/bayous was a great experience... the crazy alligator guy and me almost became friends, beautiful cotton plantations with a great historic vibe. One bus driver was a bit bizarre, he talked about experiencing Katrina but mostly he was excited about how much money he did during this time...

If you are conservative about alcohol in general or perhaps even a non drinker I don't advice you to visit New Orleans, never, ever. *laugh* We saw many poor people begging/asking for money which felt a bit uncomfortable sometimes, most of them are nice and friendly though. One time a couple of policemen where running full speed straight against us with guns in their hands screaming but luckily it wasn't us they were after, not really sure if they caught the bad guy or not, it felt kind of exotic though.

Lafitte's Blacksmith Shop Bar was a cool bar with a nice historic vibe, almost felt like John Lafitte was sitting there next to me. ;-) Several movie shootings going on in New Orleans when we were visiting, kind of cool witnessing.

Frenchmen Street was my favorite street in New Orleans, lots of good live music, cool places, drinking beer, just relaxing and enjoying life, cool atmosphere in general.

Not to forget, the ghosts, everywhere, a creepy city in a good way! You almost believed in some stories... ;-)