Anyway, SNW is episodic. Better opportunity to course correct as needed. In the old DISCO threads, response to Anson Mount's Pike was positive, even among some of DISCO's harshest critics. I don't watch trailers and few episode previews. I know next to nothing about SNW beyond its long established premise, but will watch.
One could also say those numbers highlight the problem of Star Trek fans. It's mostly old men. It's no wonder they can't makea hit when your biggest fan base is dying.
Also side note, I've noticed that Disovery season 4 had much higher numbers on torrent sites than Picard season 2.
Well it's certainly a good question, but it calls in to question what to do with the IP. Trying to reach a new audience obviously carries the risk of alienating the old and, if you do that and don't gain a new audience, you end up with.....not much.
I thought they were trying to expand the audience as well but....whatever they are doing right now doesn't seem to be working, judging by those numbers (assuming they are, of course, current and accurate).
Definitely makes you wonder about the future of the franchise.
I understand why more people would gravitate towards Discovery. I have plenty of criticisms of it for sure, but it does some of what it tries to do quite well. Picard just seems.....lost? Unfocused, not sure of purpose, pacing all over the place...
Episode 10 has a lot of ground to cover...although saying that I now recall that season 3 is filmed back to back so maybe it'll be a continuation of sorts?
I have probably equal parts optimism and skepticism for SNW.
What I like:
Anson Mount's Pike is the best thing to come out of Trek in the last 5 years. It'll be nice to have a series that isn't led by a horrible character or doesn't ruin an existing great character.
The episodic nature should make each episode more interesting and better paced. If we don't like the story, we have to wait only until next week, not next season. Also, with 45 minutes to tell a complete story, there shouldn't be any of this dragging out of a story and filler episodes that are such a problem with Discovery and Picard.
The promise of adventure and no mention of ideals makes me hopeful that it'll be an entertaining series and not one that goes out of its way to make a point.
What I fear:
Kurtzman, Goldsman and company will find a way to ruin it, anyways. I'm skeptical that they'll suddenly show that they understand Trek when Discovery and Picard have shown that they don't.
The series will be so heavy on fan service, as johnjm22 said. We already know of Spock, Uhura, Chapel and a relative of Khan. After introducing other familiar characters, references and tie-ins throughout the episodes, which will no doubt happen, it could get really tiring.
The series won't be as episodic or exploratory as expected. We might get a few standalone adventure episodes early in the season, but it'll be abandoned as the season goes along and morph into something not too unlike Discovery and Picard.
Overall, I'm doubtful that I'll like the series, but I'm hopeful that I'll be able to tolerate it more than Discovery and Picard.
My dad got into Star Trek from watching TOS when he was a young man.
When I was a kid TNG came out. Me and my dad would watch it together every weeknight, and that's how I became a fan. He liked TNG as well.
Years later when my niece and nephew were growing up, my Dad would always have TNG re-runs on, and so my niece and nephew got into Star Trek from watching them. My niece also really likes Voyager.
3 generations of Star Trek fans created by TOS, TNG and VOY.
None of those shows have shameless pandering in them to appeal to demographic X, Y and Z. They weren't trying to make Star Trek "cool" by having modern vernacular and aping whatever the latest trend was at the time. Nor were they filled with member-berries and references to previous Trek.
Me, my dad, niece and nephew all tried to watch Discovery and Picard. None of us liked it. 3 generations of Star Treks fans with no interest in the franchise's latest offerings.
Coincidentally, I recently learned that my own nephew has gotten into TNG. He likes that it's his dad's and his uncle's favorite show and that we watched it when we were about his age.
My dad has never been what you'd call a Trek fan and probably hadn't seen TOS, but he did take me to see most of the original movies, so I can credit him with helping me to become a fan. It's funny that I was a fan of the movies and even bought a box set of the first five on VHS, but didn't realize until 1991 (with the release of ST6 and the 25th anniversary celebration) that the movies were based on a TV show and that there was an even newer show. I sought them out immediately and had a lot of catching up to do. Luckily, re-runs were on every night. I remember that TOS was on after midnight and I had to set the VCR to record it and then watch it the next day. I had so much fun for the next 6 months or so binge watching both shows and got my little bro hooked, as well, so it's cool to see him passing it along to his son.
I've never gotten into TOS, but I was a huge TNG/DS9/VOY fan.
I'm interested in SNW because I thought the first half of Discovery S2 was peak Discovery. It was semi-episodic which I think was a strength because not as much relies on the overall saga which struggled to tie plot elements together. Pike was great, the ship designs were great, the characters (with a few exceptions) were much more fleshed out.
I've never gotten into TOS, but I was a huge TNG/DS9/VOY fan.
I'm interested in SNW because I thought the first half of Discovery S2 was peak Discovery. It was semi-episodic which I think was a strength because not as much relies on the overall saga which struggled to tie plot elements together. Pike was great, the ship designs were great, the characters (with a few exceptions) were much more fleshed out.
I agree. The early Discovery S2 episode in which Pike and team go down to a planet and find a civilization living a 19th or 20th century-like existence is easily my favorite episode of Discovery and probably all of nuTrek. It was mostly self-contained and traditional and had the wonder of new worlds and civilizations. It wasn't a great episode by any means, but it was the most Trek-like. Hopefully, all or most of SNW is like that.
I'll give SNW a chance because Anson Mount's Pike was the best thing from new Star Trek and he has proven he can carry a show as a lead actor (he was really good in Hell on Wheels and carried Discovery season 2). The creators and actors have said many of the right things, even if the trailers didn't really align with what they said, so hopefully what they said was true.
In fairness, I don't think that most critics do that. They just review the 1-3 episodes that they're given. It's either that or wait until the season is over, at which point there's not much point left in reviewing it. The issue is that sites like RT then take those reviews of the first few episodes and use them as ratings for the entire season. I don't really blame those sites, either, but it does make their critic ratings for TV shows very untrustworthy. One especially gets the impression from RT that just about every TV show is good because it's hard to find any with rotten critic ratings.
I'm sure that the critics would prefer to be given the entire season to review. That would be ideal for them and for us, but probably not the studios because there's more for them to lose than to gain. I imagine that the last thing that someone like Paramount wants is for critics to say, before it even premieres, that a season gets worse as it goes along and has a disappointing conclusion, since people may not bother watching or subscribing at all.
Oh, I thought that he was making a point about her appearance, since he said "literally." I sure hope that what you said isn't the reason. That would be so lame.
Episode 9 really suffered, IMO, from the amount of flashback/reused footage. And the pacing of the flashbacks drain so much tension from the action
Side note: can I just say that MAN this show loves to absolutely dunk on Voyager.
Starting with S1, each episode that goes by makes the character of Seven of Nine so depressing if you had any investment in Voyager. I've been rewatching it and all of Seven's character development just seems so irrelevant now.
Oh, I thought that he was making a point about her appearance, since he said "literally." I sure hope that what you said isn't the reason. That would be so lame.
I'm pretty sure that is the resolution to the Borg queen arc....an arc that, to the show's credit, was honestly an interesting premise (bit of a strange context, but interesting nevertheless).
Full credit where it is due: that resolution is a very "Trekian" resolution. It's a touch awkward in execution, but definitely within the spirit of Trek. I appreciate that.
However, within the larger context of the Trek universe for nerds like you and me, that resolution is....very confusing and rather implausible considering what we know about the Borg previous to this show. Jurati is succeeding at negotiation where the great heroes of the series (including the titular Picard himself) had failed.
Personally I don't think it's much of a debate. I haven't watched S4 of Discovery and have plenty of criticisms for Disco but S1/S2 of Disco are far superior to S1/S2 of Picard IMO, in everything from plot to production values.
Picard wins only on nostalgia moments for me...probably because I was a TNG fan and never really watched TOS.
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I sought them out immediately and had a lot of catching up to do. Luckily, re-runs were on every night. I remember that TOS was on after midnight and I had to set the VCR to record it and then watch it the next day. I had so much fun for the next 6 months or so binge watching both shows and got my little bro hooked, as well, so it's cool to see him passing it along to his son.
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