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TV: The All - Encompassing Star Trek Thread. Debate Long + Prosper

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Osprey said:
The ratings were brought up to support an existing argument and no one is judging the series based on them. It's no different than you citing ST:TMP's ratings just now.



What does that have to do with downvotes on a rating website? Acting incredulous because I addressed what you said and changing the subject isn't how conversation works. :laugh:
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You literally claimed the number of people voting on it indicates how many people watch it, which isn't true.
 
Jussi said:
You literally claimed the number of people voting on it indicates how many people watch it, which isn't true.
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I literally didn't. You're confusing me with johnjm22.
 
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For YOU PEOPLE:
www.thegamer.com

Star Trek: Picard Is Garbage

No amount of fan service can save this dumpster fire of a show.
www.thegamer.com www.thegamer.com
Star Trek: Picard is so bad it's almost impressive. A direct follow-up to The Next Generation with Patrick Stewart reprising his role as Jean-Luc Picard and appearances from beloved characters including Riker, Seven of Nine, Q, Guinan, and Data. How could they screw that up? Well, they did. This is the worst Star Trek show ever made (yes, worse than Enterprise), created by people who don't seem to understand what made TNG special—or what made Picard such a great character. It's an insult to the legacy of one of the greatest TV shows ever made, but mostly it's just garbage. Here's why.
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Season 2 is way better than Season 1, but definitely feels like's not as good as the sum of its parts. Not sure what to make of the latest episode. I'm not sure what the point was of the Picard story. What seemed like a decent enough plot point to create an obstacle to their mission turned into something that either unnecessarily expands the narrative or was just a random attempt at fan service disconnected to the rest of the plot. MVP of the season is definitely Alison Pill who is killing it as the Jurati/Borg hybrid. Some of her looks completely mimic Wersching's.
 
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Out of curiosity I watched the 4K version of ST:TMP last night. Two+ hours of my life I'm never getting back. Pacing is still off, acting wooden and ...nothing new. I had to hit fast forward many times.
 
Jumptheshark said:
LIttle disapointed in this episdoe to a point

they have two episode to wrap up a lot of things
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I haven't seen today's episode yet, but I've found this to be a flaw in most of what we've seen from this era from Star Trek so far even though I've liked most of it. They set up a bunch of stuff towards the beginning, meander a little bit in the middle, and then rush to wrap it all up in the final 2 episodes. That damages the ends of the seasons to me.
 
Tawnos said:
I haven't seen today's episode yet, but I've found this to be a flaw in most of what we've seen from this era from Star Trek so far even though I've liked most of it. They set up a bunch of stuff towards the beginning, meander a little bit in the middle, and then rush to wrap it all up in the final 2 episodes. That damages the ends of the seasons to me.
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I think the last 2 episode will be rushed---too many build up episodes leading to the end

Some will love this episode--but I found it predictable
 
Tawnos said:
I haven't seen today's episode yet, but I've found this to be a flaw in most of what we've seen from this era from Star Trek so far even though I've liked most of it. They set up a bunch of stuff towards the beginning, meander a little bit in the middle, and then rush to wrap it all up in the final 2 episodes. That damages the ends of the seasons to me.
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It sounds like part of the reason is that they don't finish writing the episodes until filming is underway. I provided a couple of links on the last page about it. Akiva Goldsman has suggested that the ending of Picard Season 1 suffered because, by the time that they wrote the final episodes, they had already filmed the earlier episodes and couldn't go back and properly set up the conclusion. Similarly, Discovery Season 4 reportedly started filming in November 2020, but wasn't finished being written until May 2021. It seems like Paramount has been rushing their series to have content for their service.
 
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Spoilery comments below for this week's episode.

Echoing the sentiment about time spent on extraneous story. The interrogation seemed largely pointless, when time is so critical. It didn't advance the story and crams too much resolution into the final two episodes. I'm fine with filler in a 10+ episode season, but here I was distracted by the clock ticking down.

The Q health status reveal could have been accomplished in last week's bar summoning scene, while scrapping the FBI interrogation altogether. Unless the ex-FBI agent factors into thwarting Soong (re: the Europa mission), then I'm dumbfounded by his inclusion in the story this late in the season. The show has all the momentum it needs in the Jurati/Queen dynamic, with Q being an occasional disruptor.

The Europa gala episode from a few weeks ago is among my favorite. Had its only purpose been to put Jurati in the red dress, then I'm sold. Season One Jurati was often directionless, frenetic, and occasionally annoying. She's been given purpose in Season 2 (and her vixen makeover is flattering). Also a fan of Wersching's Queen.

Hoping for a hard press on Jurati/Queen next week. No more Sunday drives. If I'm ranking episodes, this one is at the bottom. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the season, but it's a weaker installment, save for its B-plot, which should have been the A-plot and driving the narrative.
 
The last few episodes have been especially boring. The plot has been advancing at a glacial pace and all of the flashbacks and psychodrama haven't been the least bit interesting. I couldn't care less about trauma that 80-year-old Picard experienced as a 10-year-old, especially since it never affected him before. I also didn't care that Picard was in critical condition because it happened last season and he's already croaked. The Q dying "reveal" was no surprise because the dialogue suggested it at the start of Episode 2. Rios' romantic subplot feels like a telenovela and is too similar to Kirk's in Star Trek IV. Overall, the season is a re-hash of Star Trek IV and First Contact and feels stale to begin with, but being stretched to 10 episodes and 8 hours is making it tedious on top of that.
 
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Curious to know how much the age of the actors has factored into the lack of some energy/action

Hurd is 56
Ryan is 54
Steward is 82
SPiner 73

I am 51 and I am not as active as I once was

Cabrera is 44 and up to a few years ago most of the stuff he did was action orientated. He played Aramis in the BBC production of The Musketeers(which I think he stole the show in).

Now I maybe in the minority but I think they should have used the younger actors(such as they are using Pill) to carry more action and to keep it up.
 
I don't want the kind of action that younger actors are more suitable for. That's not what TNG was about. During its final season, Stewart was 53, Spiner was 43 and Frakes and Dorn were 41. They weren't involved in much physical action because it was a show mostly about diplomacy and exploration and what action there was mostly involved starships. This show doesn't need more action, IMO. After all, it has about as much as Star Trek IV had and that was far from boring. What it needs is an engaging, coherent, intelligent and original science fiction plot with likable characters.
 
Osprey said:
I don't want the kind of action that younger actors are more suitable for. That's not what TNG was about. During its final season, Stewart was 53, Spiner was 43 and Frakes and Dorn were 41. They weren't involved in much physical action because it was a show mostly about diplomacy and exploration and what action there was mostly involved starships. This show doesn't need more action, IMO. After all, it has about as much as Star Trek IV had and that was far from boring. What it needs is an engaging, coherent, intelligent and original science fiction plot with likable characters.
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Osprey said:
The last few episodes have been especially boring. The plot has been advancing at a glacial pace and all of the flashbacks and psychodrama haven't been the least bit interesting. I couldn't care less about trauma that 80-year-old Picard experienced as a 10-year-old, especially since it never affected him before. I also didn't care that Picard was in critical condition because it happened last season and he's already croaked. The Q dying "reveal" was no surprise because the dialogue suggested it at the start of Episode 2. Rios' romantic subplot feels like a telenovela and is too similar to Kirk's in Star Trek IV. Overall, the season is a re-hash of Star Trek IV and First Contact and feels stale to begin with, but being stretched to 10 episodes and 8 hours is making it tedious on top of that.
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I agree with both posts.

It's taking an eternity for the story to move forward.

There is no exploration, just a lecture.
 
Jussi said:
Out of curiosity I watched the 4K version of ST:TMP last night. Two+ hours of my life I'm never getting back. Pacing is still off, acting wooden and ...nothing new. I had to hit fast forward many times.
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It's not a bad movie just "weird". I have the 2004 Directors Cut where they made some upgrades to the effects.

It's a transitional movie where they were trying to figure out how to make Star Trek on the big screen. There's some really cool stuff in it and ideas even though as some pointed out, it's essentially like the TOS Episode with Nomad (this movie has been called many things like "Where Nomad has gone before"). My issues are the atmosphere feels like a Gary Numan video from 1980 with the pajama unis and the Enterprise Bridge literally looking like a first generation MTV music video/moving the science station to stage right. The tone changes so much with the transporter accident and getting very existential when they go in V'Ger. And this is only in storyline! We all know about the rewrites and drama it took to get this thing done during production.

The best thing they did after the movie was acknowledge the Enterprise had another five year mission along with eight years as a training vessel, and start Wrath of Khan 13 years after these events. The burgundy unis, making the Enterprise bridge darker, Spock as Captain, and reducing that creepy red alert sound to very faint (you can still hear it after the Reliant initially attacks the Enterprise) were all good decisions.
 
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Against my better judgment, I watched Discovery Season 4 this weekend... all 11 hours of it.

I thought that Picard Season 2 was bad, but at least it's a very pale imitation of much better past Trek shows and movies. Discovery doesn't resemble Trek at all. In Season 4, all everyone does is cry, hug and talk about their feelings and insecurities. Seriously, all of their free time between action is spent in virtual therapy sessions with one another. No one on board the ship is mentally stable, save for maybe Saru (who sort of gets a love story, believe it or not). You wonder how the ship even functions when almost everyone is a basket case.

Somehow, the writers managed to make Burnham more irritating. Now that she's Captain, she's even bossier and even bosses around the Federation President. Seriously, when the President tries to put her in her place, she reminds her who it was that solved the Burn in Season 3 and then tells the President to never speak like that to her again. If that isn't enough, she saves the universe (again) in the end by not asking but telling a more highly advanced species to stop what it's doing. That superior lifeform then virtually apologizes to her and promises to never do it again. It doesn't matter if you're the Federation President or a species that can destroy the Federation if it wants to. You exist to bend the knee to Michael Burnham. She might just be worst character ever written, but certainly the worst Star Trek character ever written, much worse than Wesley Crusher, Dr. Pulaski, Lwaxana Troi, Barclay and Neelix. In fact, I'm imagining a show featuring all of those and thinking that I'd prefer to see that than another season of this.

Anyways, I can't believe that I'm actually looking forward to the next Picard episode now.
 
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Osprey said:
Against my better judgment, I watched Discovery Season 4 this weekend... all 11 hours of it.

I thought that Picard Season 2 was bad, but at least it's a very pale imitation of much better past Trek shows and movies. Discovery doesn't resemble Trek at all. In Season 4, all everyone does is cry, hug and talk about their feelings and insecurities. Seriously, all of their free time between action is spent in virtual therapy sessions with one another. No one on board the ship is mentally stable, save for maybe Saru (who sort of gets a love story, believe it or not). You wonder how the ship even functions when almost everyone is a basket case.

Somehow, the writers managed to make Burnham more irritating. Now that she's Captain, she's even bossier and even bosses around the Federation President. Seriously, when the President tries to put her in her place, she reminds her who it was that solved the Burn in Season 3 and then tells the President to never speak like that to her again. If that isn't enough, she saves the universe (again) in the end by not asking but telling a more highly advanced species to stop what it's doing. That superior lifeform then virtually apologizes to her and promises to never do it again. It doesn't matter if you're the Federation President or a species that can destroy the Federation if it wants to. You exist to bend the knee to Michael Burnham. She might just be worst character ever written, but certainly the worst Star Trek character ever written, much worse than Wesley Crusher, Dr. Pulaski, Lwaxana Troi, Barclay and Neelix. In fact, I'm imagining a show featuring all of those and thinking that I'd prefer to see that than another season of this.

Anyways, I can't believe that I'm actually looking forward to the next Picard episode now.
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Except that's not how it went at all.
 
Mimsy said:
So rather than exercising our own judgment, the HF small group consensus indicates ratings sites are the ultimate arbiters of taste. So be it.

View attachment 532947


IMDB is 6.4
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Most people who watch Star Trek The Motion Picture don't like it. Most people who watch Star Trek Picard don't like it.

That's reflected in the ratings.

Yet I still like TMP (though it's obviously flawed), and you still like Picard.

No one is holding up RT ratings as the "ultimate arbiters".
 
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