The 2017-2018 NHL Trade Deadline Thread

[Jamieh]

Definitely but he did answer your question. Sounds like what you really meant to ask is are their any examples of players who have only been with a team for a noticeably short period of time yet still took a hometown discount. In that case I can't think of any.

Not really, but would need perceived value to be significant less that agreed upon contract and those are extremely rare in the NHL. As an example friends talk to friends like players and agents. Raanta and his agent know pretty much who might pitch him on July 1st and roughly what offer will be. If someone has an offer of 4 years at a number starting with a 4 and the Coyotes are pitching 4 years starting with just over 3 we all know where Raanta is going. Of course other variables count like tax, COL'ing, climate and so on. But in the real world hometown discount on it's own just means very little. And a guy with little financial security like Raanta it means even less.

 

[Jamieh]

Raanta is 28 years old and has career earnings of around $5 million. He owes it to his Family to maximize that with this contract as it seems to be the first time he has some demand and might be able to hit a home run. No one should ask or expect him to not take the highest offer he can get. Now figuring out that value is the hard part but if he's my client we are going to July to find out.

 

[AZviaNJ]

An offensive D man who cracked 50 points once in his career and can't play 5v5 gets paid $6.65 million per year and that's suggested as taking a hometown discount??? He has the 13th highest Cap hit for D men, where would you suggest he ranks??

I agree that Shattenkirk is among the most overrated Dman in the league and would suggest he ranks lower than 13th.

However, he was one of the most sort after UFA this past off-season.....all about timing, need and what the market will pay.

Kevin Shattenkirk explains why he left money on table to sign with Rangers

"The 28-year-old right-shot defenseman said that several teams offered contracts with seven-year terms, while others were more in line with the Rangers at four or five years. He admitted that living out his dream was put to the test during free agency because there were so many attractive offers."

 

[Jamieh]

I noticed the article didn't mention the dollars per year and then assumed same per year value?? I bet he left almost nothing on the table and took more per year for shorter deal vs less per year longer. Either way I hope we never end up with a hometown discount like that one, let someone else be stupid.

 

[cobra427]

Oh, I'd have preferred to resign him before the deadline instead of having us over a barrel in the land of sunshine and lollipops where getting closer to free agency opening somehow makes him more inclined to sign a favourable deal (for us). Extending Mueller is great on an island, but makes it even easier for Chayka to do something stupid in negotiating with Raanta's camp.

Signing him before or after the deadline doesn't matter, we will pay market value either way. Raanta could play poorly the rest of the way or get injured too, that is his risk and that could hurt his value. Worrying about another team over paying this summer for an unproven 29 year old goalie isn't a reason to sign him before the TDL.

 

[Grimes]

“At the end of the season we’ll sit down and take a hard look at what we need to add and improve upon, but right now we have maximum flexibility and we have significant assets in order to go out and make some significant moves. That’s my goal and I’m going to be aggressive with it.” -- Chayka


Sounds like it could very similar to last year's draft.

I read this yesterday and did not like the quote one bit. What "significant" assets is he talking about? Out 1st, OEL, Domi and maybe Strome. I still have no problem with moving the 7th OA last season, especially because it looks like we be picking in the top 5 this year. This draft is not equal to last years draft and I would argue there are 2-3 top line forwards and another 2-3 top three defensemen ontop of the franchise defenseman at number 1, all who couldbe had at the 5-7 range. Last draft I think you could make the arguement there were no clear top line forwards or top pairing defensemen, or at least I wouldnt have put money on it. We also dont have a second 1st to pad a trade. Moving two top ten picks in a row will kill the rebuild and franchise.

Another quote from that article was Chayka listing players he thinks fit the system/process well. If I remember, said he liked the top 5 defensemen and Keller, Fischer, Perlini, and Stepan for the forwards. Huge omission of Domi. I think Domi is that significant asset he would move. Hopefully it is for the right deal and not just to make a trade to make it look like the team improved.

Strome wasnt Chaykas's guy either.

 

[Grimes]

I think Hjalmarsson is too important to trade. Otherwise they’d have done it yesterday.

Gah what a beautiful pickup. I doubt many GM's will feel this way by next deadline unless Hjalmarsson has the same amount of injuries he had this season. We just have the front row view of it. I dont think the value will be significantly lower next TDL either. We may have turned Murphy into two years of Hjarlmasson stablizing the backend and teaching Chychrun and a 1st +. If he loves it out here, maybe we can extend him for the right term. I dont have a problem with trading him next deadline or hanging onto him.

Same goes for Stepan honestly.

 

[Ebb]

My guess is that they are still waiting to see if he can become more consistent. Why sign him at this point when we've been a bit on the lucky side (although he's done quite well). Depending on how things go, Chayka will probably wait, especially if we start bring some more pups up for tryouts. If Raanta does well with "greener" players in the line-up, he'll get a decent offer; if he becomes less consistent, then we'll be able to sign him for a decent contract. I kind of think he'll try the market, but hopefully we can present him a decent offer without overpaying (too much).

 

[Jakey53]

Raanta is 28 years old and has career earnings of around $5 million. He owes it to his Family to maximize that with this contract as it seems to be the first time he has some demand and might be able to hit a home run. No one should ask or expect him to not take the highest offer he can get. Now figuring out that value is the hard part but if he's my client we are going to July to find out.

Easier said than done. Raanta has risk on his side also. If he is not signed by July 1st. and wants to test free agency, it gives the Coyotes a chance to look at other UFA goalies that they may like and sign for similar dollars that they set aside for Raanta. Don't forget, Raanta is not a proven #1 goalie and not many teams will guarantee him a #1 job like he would have here. I would be willing to bet that Raanta signs here.

 

[moosemeister]

I read this yesterday and did not like the quote one bit. What "significant" assets is he talking about? Out 1st, OEL, Domi and maybe Strome. I still have no problem with moving the 7th OA last season, especially because it looks like we be picking in the top 5 this year. This draft is not equal to last years draft and I would argue there are 2-3 top line forwards and another 2-3 top three defensemen ontop of the franchise defenseman at number 1, all who couldbe had at the 5-7 range. Last draft I think you could make the arguement there were no clear top line forwards or top pairing defensemen, or at least I wouldnt have put money on it. We also dont have a second 1st to pad a trade. Moving two top ten picks in a row will kill the rebuild and franchise.

Another quote from that article was Chayka listing players he thinks fit the system/process well. If I remember, said he liked the top 5 defensemen and Keller, Fischer, Perlini, and Stepan for the forwards. Huge omission of Domi. I think Domi is that significant asset he would move. Hopefully it is for the right deal and not just to make a trade to make it look like the team improved.

Strome wasnt Chaykas's guy either.

Yup. Fully expect Max and Strome to be gone this summer.

That said when we lose the lottery and end up with Tkachuk, we have no room for Domi in the future.

 

[AZviaNJ]

I read this yesterday and did not like the quote one bit. What "significant" assets is he talking about? Out 1st, OEL, Domi and maybe Strome. I still have no problem with moving the 7th OA last season, especially because it looks like we be picking in the top 5 this year. This draft is not equal to last years draft and I would argue there are 2-3 top line forwards and another 2-3 top three defensemen ontop of the franchise defenseman at number 1, all who couldbe had at the 5-7 range. Last draft I think you could make the arguement there were no clear top line forwards or top pairing defensemen, or at least I wouldnt have put money on it. We also dont have a second 1st to pad a trade. Moving two top ten picks in a row will kill the rebuild and franchise.

Another quote from that article was Chayka listing players he thinks fit the system/process well. If I remember, said he liked the top 5 defensemen and Keller, Fischer, Perlini, and Stepan for the forwards. Huge omission of Domi. I think Domi is that significant asset he would move. Hopefully it is for the right deal and not just to make a trade to make it look like the team improved.

Strome wasnt Chaykas's guy either.

Understand your frustration, but I get Chayka's point (and likely pressure he's getting from Barroway to win now):

1. Trading 2018 First - I'd argue the 2018 draft is better than 2017, not as good as 2016 or 2015. Last year there was Nico and Patrick (injury concerns), then Heiskanen next, fell off from there. Dahlin is a significantly bigger prospect than anyone last year and Svechnikov/Zadina/Tkachuk are right there with Nico/Patrick IMO...drop-off after. If we get a Top 4 pick, need to keep it.

2. OEL - if he resigns for 7x7, do it, if not or if he wants to leave, trade him. Black and white.

3. Domi - I don't think Chayka will get appropriate value in a trade and keeps him. The RFA contract discussion will be interesting.

4. Strome - next 1-2 months in Tucson will be telling.

Last year, the only long-term asset they lost of any significance was the #7OA pick (and who knows how that will turnout).

Hopefully we have Raanta/Kuemper, the 5 Dman with a physical 3RHD (not Shenn) and keep KConn as a 7th. Build from the backend forward. Still need help at C...either a 2C or 3C.

 

[Jamieh]

Easier said than done. Raanta has risk on his side also. If he is not signed by July 1st. and wants to test free agency, it gives the Coyotes a chance to look at other UFA goalies that they may like and sign for similar dollars that they set aside for Raanta. Don't forget, Raanta is not a proven #1 goalie and not many teams will guarantee him a #1 job like he would have here. I would be willing to bet that Raanta signs here.

Raanta's camp will know long before July 1st who is interested and what they are willing to pay.

 

[_Del_]

Signing him before or after the deadline doesn't matter, we will pay market value either way. Raanta could play poorly the rest of the way or get injured too, that is his risk and that could hurt his value. Worrying about another team over paying this summer for an unproven 29 year old goalie isn't a reason to sign him before the TDL.

You don't think Raanta has more leverage after the deadline than after? That's interesting logic. Especially since the GM now has to sign him or the alternative is looking like a complete neophyte (which he is). He also has nothing to lose by testing the market. He has zero urgency. Chayka now carries all the downside.
And if Raanta has a poor finish or gets injured, his valuation (and his agent's) doesn't change much. Offering him substantially less money than yesterday just makes him more likely to test the market in free agency.
So we're back to, if you think he's your guy, you should have signed him. And if you think he's not your guy long-term or wants too much to sign, you should have dealt him for assets instead of putting yourself behind the eightball the rest of the way.

 

[_Del_]

No one should ask or expect him to not take the highest offer he can get. Now figuring out that value is the hard part but if he's my client we are going to July to find out.

Exactly. Zero downside to saying, "That's not a terrible offer, John, and Antti loves it here, but we're going to see what's out there. I'll get back to you July one."

 

[Jakey53]

Raanta's camp will know long before July 1st who is interested and what they are willing to pay.

Of course, but there are more than Raanta looking for a job, and because someone is interested does not mean it's a done deal. Like I mentioned, Raanta is not someone who is a #1 for years and has a track record. I believe Chayka has a much leverage as Raanta, but having said that, I hope he stays because I think the Coyotes are a perfect fit for him.

 

[_Del_]

Chayka's leverage literally consists of take it or leave it and call my bluff, forcing me to admit I should have dealt you and leaving me with Plan B (or forcing me to meet your numbers).
He has zero extra leverage by waiting after the deadline. Whatever things attracting Raanta to pen his signature existed in the same quantities yesterday before the deadline as they do today or tomorrow.
The only thing Chayka increased is his risk.

 

[Jakey53]

You don't think Raanta has more leverage after the deadline than after? That's interesting logic. Especially since the GM now has to sign him or the alternative is looking like a complete neophyte (which he is). He also has nothing to lose by testing the market. He has zero urgency. Chayka now carries all the downside.
And if Raanta has a poor finish or gets injured, his valuation (and his agent's) doesn't change much. Offering him substantially less money than yesterday just makes him more likely to test the market in free agency.
So we're back to, if you think he's your guy, you should have signed him. And if you think he's not your guy long-term or wants too much to sign, you should have dealt him for assets instead of putting yourself behind the eightball the rest of the way.

How many teams do you think there are that will be knocking down the door to sign Raanta? How many UFA goalies are out there that are as good as Raanta?

 

[_Del_]

Hutton maybe? Noone else eligible has a +.920 save %. All the more reason for him to test the market as the top guy available.

 

[SniperHF]

Someone with more time on their hands should look at what destinations are potential starting gigs for him.
Here, NYI, maybe Vancouver, anyone else?

 

[Jamieh]

Someone with more time on their hands should look at what destinations are potential starting gigs for him.
Here, NYI, maybe Vancouver, anyone else?

Possibly Detroit, Buffalo, Carolina, Philly, and the Blues are some others that aren't exactly set.

 

[Grimes]

Understand your frustration, but I get Chayka's point (and likely pressure he's getting from Barroway to win now):

1. Trading 2018 First - I'd argue the 2018 draft is better than 2017, not as good as 2016 or 2015. Last year there was Nico and Patrick (injury concerns), then Heiskanen next, fell off from there. Dahlin is a significantly bigger prospect than anyone last year and Svechnikov/Zadina/Tkachuk are right there with Nico/Patrick IMO...drop-off after. If we get a Top 4 pick, need to keep it.

2. OEL - if he resigns for 7x7, do it, if not or if he wants to leave, trade him. Black and white.

3. Domi - I don't think Chayka will get appropriate value in a trade and keeps him. The RFA contract discussion will be interesting.

4. Strome - next 1-2 months in Tucson will be telling.

Last year, the only long-term asset they lost of any significance was the #7OA pick (and who knows how that will turnout).

Hopefully we have Raanta/Kuemper, the 5 Dman with a physical 3RHD (not Shenn) and keep KConn as a 7th. Build from the backend forward. Still need help at C...either a 2C or 3C.

Great post.

1. I do think Zadina and Svech are in a tier above Nico and Patrick, at least going into the draft. I also think Boquivst and Bouchard are closer to Heiskenan than further away. I think this draft's top ten is better than the 16's, but doesnt have the same depth past that. I dont see any reason Svech isnt as promosing as Laine, or Dahlin as becoming just as important to a team as Matthews is.

2. Totally agree. The trade really needs to happen before the deadline and the draft would probably be the best value yoy could extract for him.

3. The fact that Domi is an RFA would be the only reason we could get some significant for him. I would hate to trade him. Drafting a Tkachuck, Schev or Zadina would make it easier to swallow. The Barrie rumor would make me think. I think he is still on top of our chopping block and it makes me question what Chayka wants in a team, character goes a long way but he seems to like the yes-men drones.

4. Fingers crossed here. The direction of the rebuild dependent on him.

 

[Jakey53]

Hutton maybe? Noone else eligible has a +.920 save %. All the more reason for him to test the market as the top guy available.

You can add Khudobin, Dell,Bernier to that list. So, you have five goalies, all wanting starting jobs, but where is there such a good chance at being #1 than Phoenix and maybe NYI? Raanta knows it's a done deal here.

 

[Jakey53]

Possibly Detroit, Buffalo, Carolina, Philly, and the Blues are some others that aren't exactly set.

I think you can cross out Carolina, Philly and the Blues. Again, I don't think any team will guarantee him the #1 and none of these teams will offer Raanta $4M as a possible back up.

 

[Jamieh]

I think you can cross out Carolina, Philly and the Blues. Again, I don't think any team will guarantee him the #1 and none of these teams will offer Raanta $4M as a possible back up.

Who are the starters in Carolina and Philly that has them stand pat??

 

[_Del_]

You can add Khudobin, Dell,Bernier to that list. So, you have five goalies, all wanting starting jobs, but where is there such a good chance at being #1 than Phoenix and maybe NYI? Raanta knows it's a done deal here.

Hahaha I publicly dare John Chayka to try to parlay Khudobin and Bernier as Raanta's competition for a contract offer into a better deal at the negotiating table. "Gee, John, best of luck to you in signing one of those guys then"
Hutton is the only one in the same category. Khudobin and Bernier are fine for what they are, and we might be stuck with one of them, but they aren't competing for Raanta's money.
You're either happy with Raanta and his terms, or you're willing to walk to find Plan B because a chance at a Bernier and Khudobin is "good enough". If it was the latter, we should have dealt him. If the former, we should have locked him up.
GM's get paid to make the hard decisions. The deadline's when it should have been made.
I hope it doesn't bite us in the ass.