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Blue Jays Discussion: That's it: Jays win, but don't get help from TB/WSH & are eliminated from playoff contention

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MS said:
Remember when Montoyo gave away a game by starting Tanner Roark?

Remember when Montoyo pinch-hit Valera for Kirk to bunt?

Blaming Semien’s one bad throw when he atoned for it 100x over with that walkoff HR against the As is lame when there are just so many games that Montoyo butchered.
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I brought up the semien error, and in my comment said not to blame because of what he did & it’s just one play, but it was literally just that one throw. All other “remember when” others are throwing out here are also reliant on the outcome coming to fruition by others doing their part (the batter not swinging at chatwood, the relievers Charlie brought in getting lit by a hitter) What I brought up is literally just a f’n routine stationary throw from 2nd.
 
this was barely a .500 team at the end of july. no where to go but up with this core. couldn't hope for a better season nit picking every detail wont help. they exceeded expectations. sure that one game hurts but we are young and will have this for a long time
 
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tmlfan98 said:
If Montoyo gets fired this season was a positive no question. Feel sorry for the casuals probably a rough day for them, but as long as anyone other than Montoyo is our manager next year, Ray is back and either Semien is back or we add a star 3B, this team wins 100 games in 2022 you heard it here first.

Compared to getting into the playoffs, maybe win the wild card game and Kevin Cash schools Montoyo again in the ALDS. That was the best case playoff scenario this year, and then Montoyo would likely be brought back again. This team always had more of a 2016 feel to me than 2015. In 2015 we basically lost in the real world series as both the Jays and Royals were beating the Mets that year.

2016 team and this year's squad never had that upside for different reasons. For this squad specifically Montoyo is the hinderance.
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This team was better than 2015 imo the only difference was competition, in a 7-game series I think this year's team wins in 6 games or so.

In 2015, the Rays and Red Sox were pretty trash, the Yankees were in between the core four and Judge eras, the Astros hadn't fully matured yet (or found buzzers yet), and the toughest teams in the AL were Texas and Kansas City, . Even in the NL, you would've played the Mets in the WS and if it were the Cubs, it was one year early enough. The MLB is soooo much more stacked than it was in 15
 
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tmlfan98 said:
If Montoyo gets fired this season was a positive no question. Feel sorry for the casuals probably a rough day for them, but as long as anyone other than Montoyo is our manager next year, Ray is back and either Semien is back or we add a star 3B, this team wins 100 games in 2022 you heard it here first.

Compared to getting into the playoffs, maybe win the wild card game and Kevin Cash schools Montoyo again in the ALDS. That was the best case playoff scenario this year, and then Montoyo would likely be brought back again. This team always had more of a 2016 feel to me than 2015. In 2015 we basically lost in the real world series as both the Jays and Royals were beating the Mets that year.

2016 team and this year's squad never had that upside for different reasons. For this squad specifically Montoyo is the hinderance.
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Perhaps the biggest difference though is age. In 2015 and 16 they were in win-now mode as most of the core players were well into their 30s whereas here you have one of the youngest teams in baseball and a couple guys in the absolute primes of their careers (Springer, Ray, Semien - hopefully we can get the two back).
 
zeke said:


Yep.
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I remember on September 1st I said if they can go 20-10, they could be in a playoff spot...well they went 22-9 and somehow still didn't make it *sigh*

It's crazy to think how good this team could've been if they had a full year with these guys and got to play in Toronto for the whole year instead of Dunedin/Buffalo for 2/3rd of the season
 
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Maestro84 said:
This team was better than 2015 imo the only difference was competition, in a 7-game series I think this year's team wins in 6 games or so.

In 2015, the Rays and Red Sox were pretty trash, the Yankees were in between the core four and Judge eras, the Astros hadn't fully matured yet (or found buzzers yet), and the toughest teams in the AL were Texas and Kansas City, . Even in the NL, you would've played the Mets in the WS and if it were the Cubs, it was one year early enough. The MLB is soooo much more stacked than it was in 15
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Maestro84 said:
Perhaps the biggest difference though is age. In 2015 and 16 they were in win-now mode as most of the core players were well into their 30s whereas here you have one of the youngest teams in baseball and a couple guys in the absolute primes of their careers (Springer, Ray, Semien - hopefully we can get the two back).
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However, this team is managed by Trashtoyo.
 
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dredeye said:
Not exactly the words of an excited vet that can’t wait to come back
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The guys season just ended I’d be bummed as hell too during a press conference question about something that likely isn’t crossing my mind right now if I were a player
 
tmlfan98 said:
However, this team is managed by Trashtoyo.
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Charlie is not a good manger but the 15 and 16 teams were managed by Gibbons lmao so it’s not like the Jays ever won based on very good managing to begin with (Cito Gaston IMO was a meh manager at best)
 
Just re-sign Ray & Semien
Extend Berrios
Move Pearson to the starting rotation
Solidify the bullpen
Acquire a legit 3B
Replace Montoyo.

So EZ.
 
WeThreeKings said:
Just re-sign Ray & Semien
Extend Berrios
Move Pearson to the starting rotation
Solidify the bullpen
Acquire a legit 3B
Replace Montoyo.

So EZ.
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Agreed, although I don't think we need a 3B if Semien stays. Espinal had an OPS of .774 and played good D there. Also there's Kevin Smith.
 
I'm still not over it. I guess I can console myself by saying Montoyo just would have done something incredibly stupid in a must win game to blow it in the playoffs anyway so in some ways this is almost better right? Right? :(

Pending Arbitration raises and a possible budget raise they should have somewhere int he range of 50 to 60 million dollars to spend next year to add to this team. That's with only 4 real holes, 1 starter, 1 infielder(Biggio/Espinal covers 1 spot), and 2 pen arms. I don't expect all that to be on long term deals because they have to save room for the young guys getting more expensive, but I anticipate 1 long term deal and 1 short term buy low deal to fill the non-bullpen holes. Something like Ray + Story, or Correa + Syndergaard.

Losing Ray and Semien hurts but besides that the young guys are 1 year older and a little bit better. If we can replace them for not too much of a loss, with the added pen security(Cimber, Richards + hopefully 2 more arms) I think we should clearly be a better team next year.
 
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Maestro84 said:
Charlie is not a good manger but the 15 and 16 teams were managed by Gibbons lmao so it’s not like the Jays ever won based on very good managing to begin with (Cito Gaston IMO was a meh manager at best)
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Gibbons is the f***ing man.
 
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