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Blue Jays Discussion: That's it: Jays win, but don't get help from TB/WSH & are eliminated from playoff contention

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Going into hockey mode, but I will say this one last thing: they solidify the bullpen and keep the starting pitching intact, maybe get a better manager, then this will be a 100 win team next year.
 
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MS said:
Remember when Montoyo gave away a game by starting Tanner Roark?

Remember when Montoyo pinch-hit Valera for Kirk to bunt?

Blaming Semien’s one bad throw when he atoned for it 100x over with that walkoff HR against the As is lame when there are just so many games that Montoyo butchered.
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Yeah and I get its also dumb to blame him squarely for those losses when he might have not had options or the relivers were just throwing bp, but it really feels like a more crafty manager could have navigated those issues.

Like the socks for the last 1.5 months had arguably a worse bullpen then we did during the first few months, but Cora still managed to make sure not every game was blown

In retrospect the front office should have dealt with bullpen much sooner, especially knowing the sticky crackdown was going to happen. We should have cut Dolis, Thornton and Chatwood much sooner after a few blown games
 
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If Montoyo gets fired this season was a positive no question. Feel sorry for the casuals probably a rough day for them, but as long as anyone other than Montoyo is our manager next year, Ray is back and either Semien is back or we add a star 3B, this team wins 100 games in 2022 you heard it here first.

Compared to getting into the playoffs, maybe win the wild card game and Kevin Cash schools Montoyo again in the ALDS. That was the best case playoff scenario this year, and then Montoyo would likely be brought back again. This team always had more of a 2016 feel to me than 2015. In 2015 we basically lost in the real world series as both the Jays and Royals were beating the Mets that year.

2016 team and this year's squad never had that upside for different reasons. For this squad specifically Montoyo is the hinderance.
 
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Really unfortunate because this is a playoff team. Guess it goes to show how big of an impact bad managing can have on a team. We need to move on from the cheerleader to an actual MLB manager. Cy Young season from Ray + MVP season from Guerrero + HR record year for a 2B from Semien gone in vain. What's the record for the team with the best run differential that didn't make the playoffs? We must be right up there. We just didn't win enough close game.

I think management deserve a part of the blame too. We gave way too big of a leash to cancers like Chatwood, Dolis and Thornton. Bullpen + Montoyo gave away way too many winnable games early and mid-season. We should've made it in with relative ease.

All things considered, it was a very fun season and we still have many years of Guerrero, Bichette, Springer, Manoah, etc. ahead of us.
 
Nineteen67 said:
I fear that. They may keep Ray, which is fine, but if I had to pick only 1 guy I would take the everyday player.
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Chances are they won't have to choose. It's more likely at least one of the two players will make the decision for them by having a preferred destination and/or another club offering them a stupid crazy contract that the Jays wouldn't be smart to match.
 
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Nineteen67 said:
I fear that. They may keep Ray, which is fine, but if I had to pick only 1 guy I would take the everyday player.
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I think there is a decent chance we trade for Jose RamIrez if Semien leaves. There is also plenty of free agents to target. Jays have money and assets to replace Semien in free agency or thru trade. I don't think it's the end of the world like some are predicting.
 
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The Nemesis said:
Chances are they won't have to choose. It's more likely at least one of the two players will make the decision for them by having a preferred destination and/or another club offering them a stupid crazy contract that the Jays wouldn't be smart to match.
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I wouldn’t be getting into a large bidding war for Ray. He did great, but some of the numbers the media throw out make no sense given his history.
 
Brock Boeser Laser Show said:
I think there is a decent chance we trade for Jose RamIrez if Semien leaves. There is also plenty of free agents to target. Jays have money and assets to replace Semien in free agency or thru trade. I don't think it's the end of the world like some are predicting.
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Jays are set at all fielding positions. Espinal can be a very good third baseman. I would like to get rid of Grichuk and get more of a bench outfielder type. That's minor though.

They have relievers but adding 2 or 3 more would be ideal. If they lose Ray they need to add two starters. If they keep Ray they only need one. I would like to five with Pearson as six for depth purposes.

They have a lot of money to spend and prospects for trades. Jays are in excellent shape. The biggest thing they need to address is keeping Ray or finding a pitcher that can replace him. Jays will have a full season of Manoah and Berrios.
 
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canucksfan said:
Jays are set at all fielding positions. Espinal can be a very good third baseman. I would like to get rid of Grichuk and get more of a bench outfielder type. That's minor though.

They have relievers but adding 2 or 3 more would be ideal. If they lose Ray they need to add two starters. If they keep Ray they only need one. I would like to five with Pearson as six for depth purposes.

They have a lot of money to spend and prospects for trades. Jays are in excellent shape. The biggest thing they need to address is keeping Ray or finding a pitcher that can replace him. Jays will have a full season of Manoah and Berrios.
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Ya Grichuk is as good as gone to pay Ray's bump in pay.
I'd maybe even move Ryu if you can find a cheaper option in back end of SP rotation and bullpen arm.

Ray-Berrios-Manoah-Matz-Pearson should be good enough for next year.
 
TheImpatientPanther said:
Ya Grichuk is as good as gone to pay Ray's bump in pay.
I'd maybe even move Ryu if you can find a cheaper option in back end of SP rotation and bullpen arm.

Ray-Berrios-Manoah-Matz-Pearson should be good enough for next year.
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We have tons of money coming off the cap - about $65 mil. Plus Atkins has talked about possibly brining our payroll to $200mil (it was around $150 this year). We can give Ray and Semien their raises and still have room for a few BP pieces without really having to sell Randal.

Having said that, we should be moving Grichuk either way - he doesn't bring us enough value for his money - he would be more valuable to a team that needs a fulltime CF.
 
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First game I’ve been to in two years. What a rollercoaster of emotions (especially going from Springer’s post game to Devers stabbing all of our hearts) but it was a great experience.

Here’s hoping Ray stays longterm and that bullpen sees a foundational backend piece (Iglesias?).
 
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