Teams expecting suspensions as 2018 Hockey Canada investigation concludes (update 7/13) up to 8 players from Team Canada to be named

[KaraLupin]

Wait so no charges and just suspensions?

 

[Mike C]

I don't give a "flying shit" about anyone in this story, I don't know anyone personally, certainly not the girl or players, and i'll never know the full details of what happened, so unless you or anyone else does, you are lying if you claim you truly "care".





That's your opinion.I have the opposite opinion and think a lot of the texts and messages show that to be not the case.

If it were so true and clear, where are the criminal charges?

Love ya buddy!

The honesty is quite refreshing. Care equals the solvency of my bank account and the health and well being of me and mine

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

I'm not disagreeing with you here. But :

- It's not because players aren't specifically banned or suspended that they'll get NHL deals.

- There's absolutely no way the perpetrators are escaping it if charges are laid.

- I'll add a provisio : if the report is leaked or otherwise published, and that the main takeaway from it is along the lines "there's at least some solid evidence that the infractions have been committed, but convictions are unlikely because they're really hard to obtain in SA cases", Bettman and Daly will act regardless.

1. I agree. It'll be up to individual teams to decide whether they want to sign these players or not. And as cynical as it is to say, it'll come down to how good the player in question is. Even Virtanen, who was charged (not convicted) and sucked at hockey, got a PTO from Edmonton. Kane had no problem getting big money.

2. Also agree. If charges are laid all players will be suspended (or put on leave) pending the trials. Their return will depend on the verdict. If they're found guilty they'll have much bigger problems than not being able to play in the NHL.

3. Two investigations (as far as I understand) are taking place - one by London Police and one by the NHL. A report from police will not speculate or imply that there's guilt but not enough evidence, it'll be fairly cut and dry. I'd expect the same from the NHL, because like I said, this is a league run by lawyers.

This board and hockey Twitter has a strong viewpoint in wanting the NHL to be much more proactive when dealing with issues of sexual assault, LGBTQ rights, etc. But the league has shown that it is not as motivated to be out front on those types of issues...

So my guess is, and it's only a guess, that there'll need to be charges for significant punishment to be doled out.

 

[Mike C]

There were reports of "major issues with the woman's credibility"
It's really despicable that these investigations are made public before due process plays out.

Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Mike C]

Amazing to think what I have learned here:

Court of public opinion is more just than the actual criminal or civil courts.

Evidence isn't important, all we need is what some "investigators" paid by a party with a huge vested and financial interest here believe is to be closer to the truth.

Persons who make bad decisions one night when they are 17-20 years old should be banned from making any kind of living. They really should be homeless and hungry it seems.

The people have the right to know dammit about private matters. Details are REQUIRED!

Did I miss anything?

A bad decision was climbing over the fence to escape high school, running to the subway and taking in a matinee baseball game and lying to my parents

I might call this more than a bad decision eh?

 

[Christien]

IF one of them as on the Wings (and was a good player), I doubt you'd be OK with the team cutting bait.

Okay? It would suck to lose the player, but if the player was guilty i wouldn’t have any issue cutting bait.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I feel like if they weren't guilty, hockey Canada wouldn't have settled for millions of dollars with the victim.

"We know these guys are innocent and you're making false claims against them that hold no merit. So here's nearly 3 million dollars to settle this out of court"

I don't think that's what happened here.

The only thing is, the money is coming from people who didn't earn any of that money. They just didn't want any trouble.

 

[MardyBum]

Wait so no charges and just suspensions?

This report has no effect on charges. That's up to the London police, and they've re-opened their own investigation iirc. There's a third party law firm if it's the actual Hockey Canada investigation, and the NHL has their own investigation seperately of those two which also have no bearing on criminal charges. So I think there's 3 going on atm?

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

If the case were strong enough, charges would have been made long ago. The suspensions are nothing more than satisfying the mob.

AHH yes. The swift legal system in Canada, we all know and love. You should see the super expeditious healthcare system, too!

I think with the profile and complexity it wouldn't shock me they are still working on it. (Or, the victim isn't following through simply because of the pay-out?)

Second chances/forgiveness were part of a society that doesn't exist anymore.

Nothing these players ever say or do will be enough for the mob so its in their best interests to move to another country in a new career or hockey league. Even if he chose another career at home the cult members will track him down and boycott the employer until hes fired.

Nah.. That mob is savage, but moves on quickly too.

 

[Byron Bitz]

When did the nhl’s investigation begin? Surprised it’s not finished yet

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

When did the nhl’s investigation begin? Surprised it’s not finished yet

Bill Daly said it was wrapped up a few months ago, but they would not pre-empt the London Police investigation by releasing their findings before them. The NHL report had been shared with the LPD, though.

 

[Zarao71]

Make of it what you will. 2 NHL regulars and 2 tweeners haven't commented beyond they are cooperating.

 

[Markster]

Since this is hfboards, I do expect that, once the names are released, there will be no fewer than 3 threads made on the general board in order to rank these players in different ways.

Thanks.

With any luck, one those rankings will eventually be by prison term.

 

[Mattilaus]

I didn't used to think so many people were so naive when it comes to rape cases and how difficult they are to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Then I read this thread. There can't seriously be this many people who are stupid enough to think that the justice system does a good enough job when it comes to sexual assault.

Less than half of sexual assaults reported lead to a charge and less than half of those ever make it to court. THEN only about 10% of those get a conviction and of those convictions, only half get any kind of custody. For those doing the math here, with generous numbers, If there are 100 sexual assaults, 50 get charges, 25 go to court, 2.5 get a conviction, and on average 1 perpetrator goes to jail for any time.

Yea the league definitely shouldn't be allowed to do anything unless these guys are proven guilty by a court of law....for sure.

From arrest to conviction: Court case outcomes of police-reported sexual assaults in Canada, 2009 to 2014

This Juristat measures the 'fall-out' of sexual assault cases in the Canadian criminal justice system in order to provide vital context for how sexual assaults are handled in the justice system.

www150.statcan.gc.ca

 

[ClydeLee]

Also, in terms of how the league handles this, the one thing I always harken back to is the fact that Gary Bettman and Bill Daly are lawyers through and through.

If you think back to how they handled the Chicago situation, it was lawyer-speak at every turn. They protected the league. They did everything they could to minimize their liability – past, present and future. They didn't send a message. They didn't draw a line. They didn't do "what's right".

I expect that'll happen again.

Unless criminal charges are filed by London Police, I expect many in this thread (who want significant punishment) will be disappointed.

I find it's odd you use the Chicgao results as an example punishment without a charge won't happen, but Bowman and Q are still suspended from the league. I still don't think being charged is going to be the only thing that would lead to player suspension.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

I find it's odd you use the Chicgao results as an example punishment without a charge won't happen, but Bowman and Q are still suspended from the league. I still don't think being charged is going to be the only thing that would lead to player suspension.

Both Bowman and Quenneville resigned from their roles when the scandal broke, and neither has been officially “suspended” by the league. Both are able to pursue job opportunities with NHL teams, and it was reported that Bowman was a finalist for a couple of GM jobs this summer. The only league mandated punishment is that when they do find a job, they’ll need to meet with Gary Bettman prior to starting. Nobody believes that he’ll block a hiring.

I think most would agree that they, alongside everyone else involved, got off pretty easy.

Hell, Blackhawks ownership were just given a money making machine by the league.

That incident also took place in the context of the NHL. The victim was a player employed by an NHL team, and the abuser was a coach. This took place before any player was in the league, in the offseason. I can’t think of an example of a player being suspended for an allegation and not arrest. Voynov, for example, was arrested and charged. He was suspended. Evander Kane was not arrested or charged. He was not suspended.

Maybe it’ll be different. But with Bettman and Daly in charge, I wouldn’t bet on it.

 

[ClydeLee]

Both Bowman and Quenneville resigned from their roles when the scandal broke, and neither has been officially “suspended” by the league. Both are able to pursue job opportunities with NHL teams, and it was reported that Bowman was a finalist for a couple of GM jobs this summer. The only league mandated punishment is that when they do find a job, they’ll need to meet with Gary Bettman prior to starting. Nobody believes that he’ll block a hiring.

I think most would agree that they, alongside everyone else involved, got off pretty easy.

Hell, Blackhawks ownership were just given a money making machine by the league.

That incident also took place in the context of the NHL, too. The victim was a player employed by a NHL team. This took place before any player was in the league. I can’t think of an example of a player being suspended for an allegation and not arrest. Voynov, for example, was arrested and charged. He was suspended. Evander Kane was not arrested or charged. He was not suspended.

Maybe it’ll be different. But with Bettman and Daly in charge, I wouldn’t bet on it.

Thus isn't accurate to details at all. They aren't formally suspended but Bettman has said they had to request meetings to be reinstated, which they have and he said he is meeting with them each this month. Teams wouldn't of just been able to hire them then rush that meeting. They are still in a hold to the league and Bettman directly.

And that final line sums it up. You need to reevaluate or talk out to some people exactly how you see the world.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

Thus isn't accurate to details at all. They aren't formally suspended but Bettman has said they had to request meetings to be reinstated, which they have and he said he is meeting with them each this month. Teams wouldn't of just been able to hire them then rush that meeting. They are still in a hold to the league and Bettman directly.

And that final line sums it up. You need to reevaluate or talk out to some people exactly how you see the world.

Huh? I’m not saying that I wouldn’t suspend these players. I’m saying that I don’t believe Gary Bettman will. I think he was incredibly soft on Chicago. IMO, neither Bowman nor Quenneville should be able to even interview and the Hawks should have lost multiple picks. They shouldn’t be printing money with Bedard jerseys. Heck, an NBA like forced sale would have been appropriate. Several insiders said that if Bowman had gotten the Flames or Pens job, the league would have let him back in already. Bettman doesn’t have teeth.

Why would I need to re-evaluate how I see the world? I’m making a prediction not saying I agree with it.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

While I agree what they are accused of doing is a heinous act and should be severely punished, I'm also of the mindset that we need to wait and see what the investigation uncovers before this punishment is doled out.

People want vengeance now and I understand that, but we shouldn't just assume everyone is guilty just because someone made a claim.

They can't and shouldn't just blindly assume everyone is telling the truth.

Thank God we have one person still keeping a cool head.

 

[Mike C]

With any luck, one those rankings will eventually be by prison term.

Hope Dave Forbes is in one of those cells

Second chances/forgiveness were part of a society that doesn't exist anymore.

Nothing these players ever say or do will be enough for the mob so its in their best interests to move to another country in a new career or hockey league. Even if he chose another career at home the cult members will track him down and boycott the employer until hes fired.

Good

 

[Fish on The Sand]

I didn't used to think so many people were so naive when it comes to rape cases and how difficult they are to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Then I read this thread. There can't seriously be this many people who are stupid enough to think that the justice system does a good enough job when it comes to sexual assault.

It's not naivety, it's just pure disingenuousness.

They know that they can't say they don't feel rape is a suspendable offence, but they can argue for criteria that makes a suspension virtually impossible.

It's rape apologism and it's clear as day.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

IMHO, all pro sports should keep bad people out because pro athletes set an example for youth. I still believe that the NFL should have banned Michael Vick (who was convicted and spent time) for life, but, no, they let him play out his career just because some team needed a pro-quality QB which were in short supply.

What's the downside? These guys then have to suffer through ordinary jobs just like their would-be fans.

"The world needs ditch diggers too." ~ Judge Smails

 

[Sports2]

I didn't used to think so many people were so naive when it comes to rape cases and how difficult they are to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Then I read this thread. There can't seriously be this many people who are stupid enough to think that the justice system does a good enough job when it comes to sexual assault.

Less than half of sexual assaults reported lead to a charge and less than half of those ever make it to court. THEN only about 10% of those get a conviction and of those convictions, only half get any kind of custody. For those doing the math here, with generous numbers, If there are 100 sexual assaults, 50 get charges, 25 go to court, 2.5 get a conviction, and on average 1 perpetrator goes to jail for any time.

Yea the league definitely shouldn't be allowed to do anything unless these guys are proven guilty by a court of law....for sure.

From arrest to conviction: Court case outcomes of police-reported sexual assaults in Canada, 2009 to 2014

This Juristat measures the 'fall-out' of sexual assault cases in the Canadian criminal justice system in order to provide vital context for how sexual assaults are handled in the justice system.

www150.statcan.gc.ca

You are suggesting guilty until proven innocent because the justice system fails innocent victims and then turning around and promoting a system that fails the innocent accused. From a utilitarian standpoint this may be the best outcome based on the data. But, the justice system at least attempts, even if often failing, to bring the truth to light and I think there is value in that.

 

[Ghetty Green]

IMHO, all pro sports should keep bad people out because pro athletes set an example for youth. I still believe that the NFL should have banned Michael Vick (who was convicted and spent time) for life, but, no, they let him play out his career just because some team needed a pro-quality QB which were in short supply.

What's the downside? These guys then have to suffer through ordinary jobs just like their would-be fans.

"The world needs ditch diggers too." ~ Judge Smails

Would you have banned Peyton Manning for his transgressions at UT or is it just Vick that is subject to this treatment ?

 

[Silky Johnson]

Because as a paying customer of the league I want to know that they won't let rapists go unpunished?

I'll ask again. What is a reasonable punishment that could be levied that won't out who the players involved are?

I thought it was the states role to make sure rapist don't go unpunished...

But if we a playing this game. I am a paying customer that wants to make sure the NHL doesn't get involved on matters of justice and leaves that to the courts.