Teams expecting suspensions as 2018 Hockey Canada investigation concludes (update 7/13) up to 8 players from Team Canada to be named

[DaveMatthew]

Again, we will know the names of those involved, this is not controversial. We will know who was involved and what their suspensions may be and any criminal charges that may be levied. All I am suggesting is that if the young woman involved, who is the only person we should be worried about in the scheme of things, decides she does not want to cooperate and just wants to put this behind her, we should not release specific details of the specific actions of any of the persons involved. If player A is suspended for life as a result of the investigation and faces criminal charges ranging from sexual assault to rape while player B is suspended for two years and faces criminal charges of aiding and abetting do you need to know how involved they were beyond that? Let the actual victim decide the level of public release of details. None of us need to know if she doesn't want us to. Why is this concept so hard to grasp for the group?

This was the statement the victim's layer made in the original Westhead article:

“The plaintiff is satisfied with the outcome and relieved that this difficult matter has been concluded,” Talach wrote in an email to TSN on Tuesday. “She has nothing further to add and, consistent with her expressed wishes and behaviour throughout, requests that her privacy and desire not to be identified continues to be respected.”

Hockey Canada, CHL settle lawsuit over alleged sexual assault involving World Junior players - TSN.ca

A woman who alleged she was sexually assaulted by eight Canadian Hockey League players, including members of Canada’s gold medal-winning 2017-18 World Junior team, has agreed to drop a lawsuit against the players, Hockey Canada, and the CHL after reaching a settlement.

www.tsn.ca

 

[dukeofjive]

Not that his post deserves to be dignified with a response, but not all situations are the same. The Kane accuser turned out to be full of shit, and in the Doughty case it looks like it was much the same.

In the case of Varlamov and Doughty it was also pre-Ray Rice and in the case of Ribeiro pre-Me Too.

Times change and the outcomes might have been different had the time been different, but that's true of all things.

Sorry but I have no clue why your telling me this.

 

[BlueSeal]

If I was a hockey player in that room and she was drunk, I’d have altered security and had her removed and taken home, both to protect her and myself.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I don't expect anything and i feel like i will be disappointed.

We are gonna hear some stupid reasoning

 

[BiolaRunner]

Past a certain point of drunkeness (can'T come up with the right english word and too lazy to search for it), you can't legally give a valid consent.

Also worth pointing out that, it'S not because somebody is declared not guilty that the charged person didn't commit the infraction; it just means it couldn't be proven BARD.

Hell, with sexual assault, it's safe to go as far as saying that no charges being laid doesn't even mean the infraction hasn't been commited : it just means that there isn't more than a reasonable chance of conviction.

Intoxication or inebriation

Could also argue the video wouldn't be valid as she still in the room with everyone that just raped her. Not hard to argue that it is a coerced video.

 

[dukeofjive]

This was the statement the victim's layer made in the original Westhead article:

https://www.tsn.ca/hockey-canada-ch...involving-world-junior-players-1.1804861[/URL

Hockey Canada, CHL settle lawsuit over alleged sexual assault involving World Junior players - TSN.ca

A woman who alleged she was sexually assaulted by eight Canadian Hockey League players, including members of Canada’s gold medal-winning 2017-18 World Junior team, has agreed to drop a lawsuit against the players, Hockey Canada, and the CHL after reaching a settlement.

www.tsn.ca

Then why was the case re investigated and hockey canada taken out back of the shed and lost tons of sponsors and had to fire a bunch of the clowns who ran the show.

Your trying too hard bud, not sure why, imagine white knighting for rapist.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Sthen why was the case re investigated and hockey canada for taken to the back of the shed and lost tons of sponsors and had to fire a bunch of the clowns who ran the show.

Your trying too hard bud, not sure why, imagine white k nightingale for rapist.

Huh? None of what you said has anything to do with anything that I said.

The allegations 100% should have be investigated again and Hockey Canada should have been completely overhauled. Their road to reforming will be long. I never said otherwise.

But that wasn't done because the victim pushed for it to be done. It was done because Rick Westhead is one of the only sports journalists in Canada interested in digging and holding large organizations to account.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

The Kane accuser was not full of shit and neither was the cabbie he assaulted over pocket change

The girl in the Kane situation stopped cooperation. She received death threats and wanted to alleviate the stress on her and her family

The prosecutors didn’t feel they could beat the "reasonable doubt" game so the dropped the case

This doesn't mean it didn’t happen. Just means there wasn't enough proof

That's not what happened at all. There was contradictory witness testimony and her mother was caught manufacturing or tampering with evidence and their own lawyer dropped them.

This wasn't a case of "insufficient evidence", this was a case of severe credibility problems and a rapidly unwinding story.

This wasn't a simple case of can't convince a jury, this was a case of the accuser being full of shit.

As for the not cooperating part, that only happened after the story began to unravel.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Why the f*** do you keep asking about criminal charges? They are irrelevant.

All that matters is whether the league feels it is probable that the players in question acted inappropriately. Whether it's provable in court does not and should matter.

If the standard for punishment is only things that can be proven in court then nobody would get punished for anything.

The only reason you bring it up is because your being a rape apologist.

There has been a lot of very detailed reporting on this plus an official report coming that should provide more than enough information for e league to decide what to do.

Because someone responded to my post about them...? And why are you acting like it's so strange to bring them up for an alleged rape that happened.

I mean, considering the the video (not that I've seen it of course, but media have reported on it) indicates that the woman was so drunk she was incoherent, and that her texts literally state she was uncomfortable with all the others guys to show up, yeah seems pretty clear.

My bar for "are these guys bad and did they do something wrong" is not as strong as a criminal conviction. If yours is, I hope you never complain about anyone ever wronging you or your family in any way, unless criminal charges are laid. You would be a hypocrite otherwise.

Yeah, that was made known after the fact...

Forget conviction, could start with a new investigation, possibly bringing charges first, etc.

 

[cowboy82nd]

By your logic NBC was wrong to fire OJ because he was actually acquitted in court. After all, if a court found him not guilty, then what right does NBC have?

Maybe NBC had it in his contract that he couldn’t be in a white Bronco. I kid of course, but I personally don’t know the language in O.J.‘s contrac.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

I don't give a "flying shit" about anyone in this story, I don't know anyone personally, certainly not the girl or players, and i'll never know the full details of what happened, so unless you or anyone else does, you are lying if you claim you truly "care".





That's your opinion.I have the opposite opinion and think a lot of the texts and messages show that to be not the case.

If it were so true and clear, where are the criminal charges?

Edgy!

Of course you don’t. It’s called having some empathy for those who are wronged.

Boys will be boys, right?

 

[Wats]

I don't give a "flying shit" about anyone in this story, I don't know anyone personally, certainly not the girl or players, and i'll never know the full details of what happened, so unless you or anyone else does, you are lying if you claim you truly "care".





That's your opinion.I have the opposite opinion and think a lot of the texts and messages show that to be not the case.

If it were so true and clear, where are the criminal charges?

If the team you follow happens to have one of these players, I wouldn't call yourself completely impartial/not caring.

 

[jbeck5]

That’s why I said “most” murder. Obviously discretion has to be used and a murderer must prove himself, by not having a fiery temper and being patient as time puts itself between the action and the present time

So they can rehabilitate...gotcha.

You're still not getting it, the type of evidence you are looking for does not exist. Courts also do not require the kind of evidence that you are demanding.

There are no videos, pictures, confessions, messages, audio clips, or anything.

Courts do require some form of evidence. Hearsay alone does nothing. It has to corroborate some type of evidence.

You think the courtroom doesn't require much evidence. I do. How do we discover who's right and whose wrong here?

You can open your own home to adult aged rapists and murderers to “rehabilitate” them at your own desire since you bring that up so much. Society doesn’t owe anyone who does that to other individuals a second chance at redemption or rehabilitation. At 18-20 years old, you should know damn well by that age that murdering or raping an individual is beyond wrong and f****ed up, I certainly did.

At 18-20 years old, you are viable to be tried and sentenced as an adult for raping someone. I honestly don’t know how this is a surprise to you or why you’re even upset/outraged about this but they certainly weren’t minors at that time and it’s not a “mob mentality” as you & so many other apologists put it, to try them as adults.

Any and all evidence has probably been given to the London PD and other law enforcement that investigated it, perhaps go to them since you’re so keen on asking

Lol and they're doing nothing with that evidence. What does that tell you about the strength of the evidence?

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

The Kane accuser was not full of shit and neither was the cabbie he assaulted over pocket change

The girl in the Kane situation stopped cooperation. She received death threats and wanted to alleviate the stress on her and her family

The prosecutors didn’t feel they could beat the "reasonable doubt" game so the dropped the case

This doesn't mean it didn’t happen. Just means there wasn't enough proof

The Kane accuser was absolutely full of shit. There were tons of holes poked in the story and the mother lied so much that their original lawyer quit the case.
Prosecutor: Kane accuser's mom lied about bag

Edit: looks like Fish on a sand beat me to it

 

[Suntouchable13]

The Kane accuser was absolutely full of shit. There were tons of holes poked in the story and the mother lied so much that their original lawyer quit the case.
Prosecutor: Kane accuser's mom lied about bag

I don't doubt that Kane is a douche, but that accuser and her mom are real pieces of work.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

If the team you follow happens to have one of these players, I wouldn't call yourself completely impartial/not caring.

They don't (Ranger fan) and I'm American

 

[Boonk]

So they can rehabilitate...gotcha.



Courts do require some form of evidence. Hearsay alone does nothing. It has to corroborate some type of evidence.

You think the courtroom doesn't require much evidence. I do. How do we discover who's right and whose wrong here?



Lol and they're doing nothing with that evidence. What does that tell you about the strength of the evidence?

That they’re investigating it because that’s what they’re supposed to do? It’s almost like the London PD put out a statement saying that they’re compiling evidence and concluding an investigation before proceeding further hmmm I wonder

Betcha think that you made some sort of point there, when you in fact didn’t. Lol oh well.

 

[Mike C]

That's not what happened at all. There was contradictory witness testimony and her mother was caught manufacturing or tampering with evidence and their own lawyer dropped them.

This wasn't a case of "insufficient evidence", this was a case of severe credibility problems and a rapidly unwinding story.

View attachment 728049

This wasn't a simple case of can't convince a jury, this was a case of the accuser being full of shit.

As for the not cooperating part, that only happened after the story began to unravel.

Truth be told it was the same situation as with Kobe Bryant. Something started out as consentual and went too far. The girl said stop and Kane didn’t stop. That's exactly what happened

 

[bossram]

Yeah, that was made known after the fact...

Forget conviction, could start with a new investigation, possibly bringing charges first, etc.

...Yeah. We know that now. And despite that, you continued to deny it.

Prosecutors typically don't lay charges unless they're confident they can get a conviction - where the bar is "beyond all reasonable doubt". Sexual assault cases can be hard to meet this threshold.

And considering the victim ended up settling out of court, she may have not wanted the stress of going through a case. The fact that Hockey Canada settled to keep it quiet indicates they believe there was wrongdoing as well.

 

[jbeck5]

That they’re investigating it because that’s what they’re supposed to do? It’s almost like the London PD put out a statement saying that they’re compiling evidence and concluding an investigation before proceeding further hmmm I wonder

Betcha think that you made some sort of point there, when you in fact didn’t. Lol oh well.

How long has it been? I don't think your point was as strong as you think it is.

Saying a police had an investigation and did nothing with it isn't very telling.

 

[Cootsfanclub]

Quite a statement to make. The Doughty allegation was dismissed based on lack of evidence, not because the person making the allegation was discredited or proven to be lying. The very thing may happen in this case. We'll likely find out in the next few months.

With that said, the findings and decision not to prosecute by investigators is all we have to go on. Therefore, while we can all have suspicions (and there are plenty of whispers about this specific player in London), that's all they are. Nobody should be stating anything about his guilt as if it were a fact.

The system isn't perfect and 100% needs more resources. But it's all we have.

I think at the end of the day, the NHL will defer to the LPD investigation. And that's what they should do, IMO.

If charges are pressed, all players will be suspended. If they are not, they won't. It'll be up to individual teams to determine whether they want to employ said players in the future. Some will choose to do so, others will not.

There were reports of "major issues with the woman's credibility"
It's really despicable that these investigations are made public before due process plays out.

 

[Boonk]

How long has it been? I don't think your point was as strong as you think it is.

Saying a police had an investigation and did nothing with it isn't very telling.

They literally put out a statement on this back in March. Go search for it yourself and quit looking for people to handhold and spoon feed you this info. Do it yourself, Google is your best friend lol.

You realize that this is an investigation of gang rape from 5 years ago that is going to take a considerable amount of time to compile everything for right? These things don’t just occur overnight like you think they do in fantasy land.

 

[Golden_Jet]

...Yeah. We know that now. And despite that, you continued to deny it.

Prosecutors typically don't lay charges unless they're confident they can get a conviction - where the bar is "beyond all reasonable doubt". Sexual assault cases can be hard to meet this threshold.

And considering the victim/woman ended up settling out of court, she may have not wanted the stress and publicity and victim-shaming of going through a case. The fact that Hockey Canada settled to keep it quiet indicates they believe there was wrongdoing as well.

Not to mention, the victim might have to go through 5 or 6 trials possibly, I can’t imagine how hard that would be mentally.
Need to support her, whatever she decides.

 

[Slats432]

I don't give a "flying shit" about anyone in this story, I don't know anyone personally, certainly not the girl or players, and i'll never know the full details of what happened, so unless you or anyone else does, you are lying if you claim you truly "care".

What on earth are you talking about?

I coach young hockey players and don't want them to grow up to be like these guys. I care because of the examples that get set for young men.

I want these guys to get what they deserve if the investigation proves impropriety. I have a daughter who was a victim. So yes, people care.

People don't want their heroes to no longer be heroes. To find out that they are fallible. They don't want their team to lose a good player. Now that...that I don't give a f***. If the Canadian Olympic team lost ever game in the next five Olympics because these guys were guilty. To that, in comparison, I wouldn't give a shit about. These guys, with big egos, and unlimited bank accounts given free passes because they can skate and shoot fast. They, I don't care about. The hockey teams, I don't care about.

The victim, and every other victim. I care about.

 

[Sempiternal]

This would've been solved within an hour by Olivia Benson.