Teams expecting suspensions as 2018 Hockey Canada investigation concludes (update 7/13) up to 8 players from Team Canada to be named

[Golden_Jet]

This is so stupid. The bar for punishment shouldn't be convicted in a court of law. Otherwise employers couldn't punish workers who show up late for work.

What did I just read.
Did I just read comparing criminal law to showing up late for work.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Mike Ribeiro, Semyon Varlamov, Patrick Kane, Drew Doughty... never suspended. The latter two continue to be showered by the NHL, press and fans with praise at every turn. The same writers and fans screaming about it all will turn around and pen 1500 word essays about what a great veteran leader and culture setter Doughty is for the Canadian team at the next Olympics. The 2025 WJC in Ottawa will set records for ticket sales. There'll be galas, 17 year olds will be propped up as kings, and drinks will flow.

Everyone's a hypocrite. No sense arguing about it.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

STOP SPECULATING ON NAMES IN THE ACTIVE INVESTIGATION.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Yeah this isn't really getting the media attention in the states, outside maybe the athletic. ESPN hasn't really done anything on it yet, and if they have it isn't recent.

If that is true, I never want to see these guys ever again.

As someone who hates the term toxic the way it’s usually applied today, I’ve long thought junior hockey has a toxic culture. I posted in another thread that junior hockey seems to have way worse issues than other sports. It seems that there is an incident every year

I don’t know why it seems to have such a dude-bro grug culture. Maybe it’s the lack of high school education. Maybe it’s rich parents. Maybe it because they are minor celebrities in small towns. I think I remember an article about Doug Hamilton being bullied because he liked to go to museums and other perceived “high brow” interests. Because he wanted to see some Renoir’s or El Greco’s, he was perceived as a pretentious Frasier Crane.

I’m just tired of a culture where friends are invited to a passed out girl and anyone who has an IQ higher than a warm rock is shunned. If something happened here there should be a hard precedent set. Let the others who didn’t do anything be exonerated while the guilty are punished

 

[Boonk]

Why can't murder be rehabbed?

I used to work with a guy who killed someone by stabbing some guy at a party in his teens. He now has a job and a family and lives a normal adult life. I don't think he's a risk to stab anyone. I wouldn't feel at risk being near him now.

You can open your own home to adult aged rapists and murderers to “rehabilitate” them at your own desire since you bring that up so much. Society doesn’t owe anyone who does that to other individuals a second chance at redemption or rehabilitation. At 18-20 years old, you should know damn well by that age that murdering or raping an individual is beyond wrong and f****ed up, I certainly did.

At 18-20 years old, you are viable to be tried and sentenced as an adult for raping someone. I honestly don’t know how this is a surprise to you or why you’re even upset/outraged about this but they certainly weren’t minors at that time and it’s not a “mob mentality” as you & so many other apologists put it, to try them as adults.

Any and all evidence has probably been given to the London PD and other law enforcement that investigated it, perhaps go to them since you’re so keen on asking

 

[12ozPapa]

Whether people like it or not, or be cute and call it an angry mob, or whatever, the fact is court of public opinion exists and it DOES matter, especially when the same public helps pay players’ checks.

 

[DaveMatthew]

The list is long and exhaustive. Doug Gilmour. Etc. Etc.

I'm not sure how that has any bearing on this situation.

Better late than never, no?


Maybe the consequences of this investigation will help those 17 year old kings think twice and make better decisions.

What is the alternative? Not do anything about it? Ever?

Not do anything about it? Who said that? There has now been a multi-year police investigation into the events that occurred that night. Interviews have been conducted. Texts have been reviewed. Video have been gathered. That's what should've been done about it, and that's what is being done about it.

Charges will either be brought forth by the crown, or they won't.

I think the NHL should leave it up to that process.

 

[bossram]

For me personally it's any one or any combo of the following

-There was intent and premediation to take advantage of the girl
-Shown the girl was resisting or actively not consenting
-Shown the girl was so clearly incapacitated relative to the players who were also drinking (essentially being passed out or in a stupor) that she couldn't give the choice

Everything I've read anecdotally, it doesn't seem like these requirements were met.

I mean, there were video and texts sent that basically confirm the bolded points.

 

[Three On Zero]

STOP SPECULATING ON NAMES IN THE ACTIVE INVESTIGATION.

If the bear needs to say this once more, this thread is going to be locked up tighter than Fort Knox. It’s probably already walking a fine line

 

[bossram]

So two things here:

The others that joined in, they don't really have any ground to stand on. If they participated, they'll be done.

As for the player that was with her originally, he participated, so he's done on that, but he may not have had any knowledge of what the others were planning on doing. Doesn't excuse it, but it would make their initial action (going home with the player) legitimate and not coerced. I'm sure there is something that they could get him for if he did know this would happen and actively chose her.

Laws in Canada are different from the US for sure, but this shouldn't be too difficult. They'll need to get records of calls/texts from everyone else through discovery.

End of the day, I'd be shocked if any of them are allowed to continue in the NHL or any professional league period (sans KHL).

We can't confirm, but it seems pretty likely that the original player informed or invited the other players to "join" (gross).

 

[Fish on The Sand]

What did I just read.
Did I just read comparing criminal law to showing up late for work.

We aren't discussing criminal law. In fact, criminal law has zero to do with the discussion surrounding potential NHL suspensions. It's rape apologists bringing criminal law into the discussion as a cover for protecting rapists.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Mike Ribeiro, Semyon Varlamov, Patrick Kane, Drew Doughty... never suspended. The latter two continue to be showered by the NHL, press and fans with praise at every turn. The same writers and fans screaming about it all will turn around and pen 1500 word essays about what a great veteran leader and culture setter Doughty is for the Canadian team at the next Olympics. The 2025 WJC in Ottawa will set records for ticket sales. There'll be galas, 17 year olds will be propped up as kings, and drinks will flow.

Everyone's a hypocrite. No sense arguing about it.

You're not wrong, but you have to draw the line somewhere. And this is also why Team Canada should have been suspended from the World Juniors until 2027.

 

[Golden_Jet]

We aren't discussing criminal law. In fact, criminal law has zero to do with the discussion surrounding potential NHL suspensions. It's rape apologists bringing criminal law into the discussion as a cover for protecting rapists.

Which has nothing to do with what you posted.

The bar for punishment shouldn't be convicted in a court of law. Otherwise employers couldn't punish workers who show up late for work.

 

[iCanada]

- They were adults
- If they aren't employed anymore, labor law is irrelevant
- Even if they're employed, there are morality clauses in the SPC, and the standard of proof regarding violation of these clauses isn't BARD.

Whether they're employed or not labour law is irrelevant.

The CBA supercedes labor code unless it's unenforceable because it's breaking someo be es rights.

 

[Mike C]

Who dat?

Edit - I just googled her. Uh no, I couldn’t be further opposite of that in my political and societal values. Not sure why you were provoked by my earlier comment to post that. But you do you…

Just joking around. I make mockery of most issues. Grew up a subway rat in NYC, it's a culture...Along with the doctor prescribed happy pills, it keeps me sane

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Which has nothing to do with what you posted.

The bar for punishment shouldn't be convicted in a court of law. Otherwise employers couldn't punish workers who show up late for work.

I was responding to a post that said the NHL has no right to punish players, absent a conviction. Try to keep up.

 

[larek]

When it comes out it will come out
Rumours and hearsay mean nothing

 

[DueDiligence]

Good on you bud, defending rapist because someone did something bad in the past and did not face consequences.

Is that what you took out of that post??? Please reread what he said.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Good on you bud, defending rapist because someone did something bad in the past and did not face consequences.

Defending? I'm not defending anyone. I'm very glad that there's been such a long and thorough investigation into these allegations by law enforcement. That's 100% what should happen. We should all hope and push for the police get more resources to investigate cases like this in the future. In so many cases, they don't have nearly enough.

If anything comes out of this, I hope journalists continue unearthing stories like this so sports organizations (amateur or professional) start referring any complaints to law enforcements as soon as they come in (or they even get a whiff of misconduct), and stop trying to deal with things "internally".

With that said, I trust law enforcement, and the judicial system, to determine who is and isn't a rapist much more than Gary Bettman and Twitter.

So I'll wait on their findings.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Good on you bud, defending rapist because someone did something bad in the past and did not face consequences.

Not that his post deserves to be dignified with a response, but not all situations are the same. The Kane accuser turned out to be full of shit, and in the Doughty case it looks like it was much the same.

In the case of Varlamov and Doughty it was also pre-Ray Rice and in the case of Ribeiro pre-Me Too.

Times change and the outcomes might have been different had the time been different, but that's true of all things.

 

[MXD]

Whether they're employed or not labour law is irrelevant.

The CBA supercedes labor code unless it's unenforceable because it's breaking someo be es rights.

But it doesn't necessarily supercede Labor Law, which is much wider than the Labor Code. But all of this is super moot because it's indeed totally not relevant.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Previous thread. You bemoaned how they should be able to play because they’re just kids. I remember when people say awful shit.

To say it’s not so compassionate is putting it very lightly.

Once again. No mention of the true victim. All you due process people don’t seem to give a flying shit about the true victim in all this.

I don't give a "flying shit" about anyone in this story, I don't know anyone personally, certainly not the girl or players, and i'll never know the full details of what happened, so unless you or anyone else does, you are lying if you claim you truly "care".

I mean, there were video and texts sent that basically confirm the bolded points.

That's your opinion.I have the opposite opinion and think a lot of the texts and messages show that to be not the case.

If it were so true and clear, where are the criminal charges?

 

[DaveMatthew]

Not that his post deserves to be dignified with a response, but not all situations are the same. The Kane accuser turned out to be full of shit, and in the Doughty case it looks like it was much the same.

In the case of Varlamov and Doughty it was also pre-Ray Rice and in the case of Ribeiro pre-Me Too.

Times change and the outcomes might have been different had the time been different, but that's true of all things.

Quite a statement to make. The Doughty allegation was dismissed based on lack of evidence, not because the person making the allegation was discredited or proven to be lying. The very thing may happen in this case. We'll likely find out in the next few months.

With that said, the findings and decision not to prosecute by investigators is all we have to go on. Therefore, while we can all have suspicions (and there are plenty of whispers about this specific player in London), that's all they are. Nobody should be stating anything about his guilt as if it were a fact.

The system isn't perfect and 100% needs more resources. But it's all we have.

I think at the end of the day, the NHL will defer to the LPD investigation. And that's what they should do, IMO.

If charges are pressed, all players will be suspended. If they are not, they won't. It'll be up to individual teams to determine whether they want to employ said players in the future. Some will choose to do so, others will not.

 

[bossram]

I don't give a "flying shit" about anyone in this story, I don't know anyone personally, certainly not the girl or players, and i'll never know the full details of what happened, so unless you or anyone else does, you are lying if you claim you truly "care".





That's your opinion.I have the opposite opinion and think a lot of the texts and messages show that to be not the case.

If it were so true and clear, where are the criminal charges?

I mean, considering the the video (not that I've seen it of course, but media have reported on it) indicates that the woman was so drunk she was incoherent, and that her texts literally state she was uncomfortable with all the others guys to show up, yeah seems pretty clear.

My bar for "are these guys bad and did they do something wrong" is not as strong as a criminal conviction. If yours is, I hope you never complain about anyone ever wronging you or your family in any way, unless criminal charges are laid. You would be a hypocrite otherwise.

 

[My3Sons]

Releasing the names will be a public service whereas others can avoid interaction with these society bastions

Again, we will know the names of those involved, this is not controversial. We will know who was involved and what their suspensions may be and any criminal charges that may be levied. All I am suggesting is that if the young woman involved, who is the only person we should be worried about in the scheme of things, decides she does not want to cooperate and just wants to put this behind her, we should not release specific details of the specific actions of any of the persons involved. If player A is suspended for life as a result of the investigation and faces criminal charges ranging from sexual assault to rape while player B is suspended for two years and faces criminal charges of aiding and abetting do you need to know how involved they were beyond that? Let the actual victim decide the level of public release of details. None of us need to know if she doesn't want us to. Why is this concept so hard to grasp for the group?