Teams expecting suspensions as 2018 Hockey Canada investigation concludes (update 7/13) up to 8 players from Team Canada to be named

[aniketus]

Although he's not banned maybe teams would treat these players like Slava Voynov.

 

[Mattilaus]

You are suggesting guilty until proven innocent because the justice system fails innocent victims and then turning around and promoting a system that fails the innocent accused. From a utilitarian standpoint this may be the best outcome based on the data. But, the justice system at least attempts, even if often failing, to bring the truth to light and I think there is value in that.

I am suggesting private entities are not beholden to the same test the justice system is. If I don't like me neighbour, I don't need him to be charged with something to disassociate with him. I can just stop talking to him. The NHL is a private corporation and they don't need a guilty verdict to decide someone isn't good for them.

The same way you don't need a guilty verdict to sue someone because the requirement for a guilty verdict is "beyond a reasonable doubt" whereas the test for a civil suit is "on the balance of probabilities". Even our own justice system makes no requirement of a guilty verdict in order to be able to successfully sue someone. That's why you often see cases where a murderer (like OJ for example, and yes i know this is USA but Its just a common example) can get away with it, but then be successfully sued. Why is this allowed to happen if you are of the opinion the NHL shouldn't even allowed to suspend its own employees unless there is a guilty verdict?

 

[Hopeless Unbeliever]

Somehow I doubt that.

Is this real? For a second let's assume that the civil case concluded and the individuals concerned were "on the balance of probabilities" found to be rapists. Is there anyone in their right mind on here who would not want to see that player cut from their team?

 

[Reddawg]

Is there anyone in their right mind on here?

Infrequently.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

I didn't used to think so many people were so naive when it comes to rape cases and how difficult they are to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Then I read this thread. There can't seriously be this many people who are stupid enough to think that the justice system does a good enough job when it comes to sexual assault.

When the Patrick Kane incident was going on, I'd say roughly 50% of this forum didn't know what a rape kit was or how it worked.

I was floored.

 

[Sliptip]

I'm really wondering what all you "anti-wokers" riding for the young white millionaires think the best case scenario for your clients are? Based on everything, it's at least likely beyond a doubt that the text messages about invitation to the apartment and then the exchange afterwards happened(although be careful, woke media and organisations might just be spinning that narrative. Especially that cuck Rick Westhead who went after poor Rocky, Stannie, Joel and the boys!!!!!!!!!).

So where do we actually land in the best case scenario? A group of big ass athletes getting invited to a room to help each other gangbang a drunk woman fully able to consent, and believe she did so fully aware and feeling safe to have done otherwise? Or did they get in there just watch the original dude, and play some playstation while listening? Maybe play dice on the couple while they have the oringinal consenting sex?
I don't know about you, but even these scenarios makes these guys at best look like weirdos and not very ok in the head, and at worst like absolute scum of the earth. Take your pick. Or are we going to guess that she actually wasn't drunk, and just felt safe getting ganged by like 8 guys like the hardcore pornos you guys probably love, despite the alleged text messages afterwards(again though, probably fake, right?)?


EDIT: Also, I always feel the need to record the women I have sex with before or after saying that they are ok with it and that they consent with everything I'm about to done or have done. Kind of makes it feel like I am a mad scientist doing human experiments in order to cure a ravenous disease, and save humanity. Good roleplay, ya know?

 

[AcadiaAxeMan]

Here’s what I found (sorry if already posted)

Hockey Canada scandal, explained: Carter Hart, Dillon Dube among five players charged with sexual assault | Sporting News Canada

A woman claims that members of the CHL and Hockey Canada sexually assaulted her in 2018.

www.sportingnews.com

 

[H3ckt1k]

I'm really wondering what all you "anti-wokers" riding for the young white millionaires think the best case scenario for your clients are? Based on everything, it's at least likely beyond a doubt that the text messages about invitation to the apartment and then the exchange afterwards happened(although be careful, woke media and organisations might just be spinning that narrative. Especially that cuck Rick Westhead who went after poor Rocky, Stannie, Joel and the boys!!!!!!!!!).

So where do we actually land in the best case scenario? A group of big ass athletes getting invited to a room to help each other gangbang a drunk woman fully able to consent, and believe she did so fully aware and feeling safe to have done otherwise? Or did they get in there just watch the original dude, and play some playstation while listening? Maybe play dice on the couple while they have the oringinal consenting sex?
I don't know about you, but even these scenarios makes these guys at best look like weirdos and not very ok in the head, and at worst like absolute scum of the earth. Take your pick. Or are we going to guess that she actually wasn't drunk, and just felt safe getting ganged by like 8 guys like the hardcore pornos you guys probably love, despite the alleged text messages afterwards(again though, probably fake, right?)?


EDIT: Also, I always feel the need to record the women I have sex with before or after saying that they are ok with it and that they consent with everything I'm about to done or have done. Kind of makes it feel like I am a mad scientist doing human experiments in order to cure a ravenous disease, and save humanity. Good roleplay, ya know?

You spit facts but this is the best part. Who in their right mind, if they truly believe they thought what they did was consensual and okay, has to record the woman agreeing to it?

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Sure but these days the mob will go after you based on a single accusation.

Heck, it happened years ago too with the Duke Lacrosse Case.

Also Vinik could've heeds for the woke mob and cut Cole loose. Thankfully, he respects the way things actually work in the real world and waited until the allegations were proven false.



Somehow I doubt that.



Bauer was suspended for an egregious amount of time because he called out the MLB on the Astros scandal among other things.

A 200 something game suspension is complete and utter BS for a false allegation. Manclown was just being petty.

Ah good. More attacks on the woke mob and the cancel culture. Keep crusading brother.

 

[Troy McClure]

Is this real? For a second let's assume that the civil case concluded and the individuals concerned were "on the balance of probabilities" found to be rapists. Is there anyone in their right mind on here who would not want to see that player cut from their team?

Going by this thread, I'm going to guess there are a lot of dudes here who would have new favorite players.

 

[onetweasy]

The mob picks and chooses which crimes are horrible while excusing equally egregious crimes that dont fit their narrative. Thats the real issue here.

Oh please - tell us how it all works sxvnert.......

The real issue here isn't a general statement about the varying levels of justice in our society.

The real issue is a group of men who played hockey for Team Canada allegedly raped a women.

Take your whataboutism's to twitter or threads now....

 

[squashmaple]

Mmm, as a woman, I know I sure love reading threads of posts from old white dudes (and I know that's what most people on this forum are) saying actually rape isn't a crime and those boys didn't mean it. I had to give up after page eight.

I'm really wondering what all you "anti-wokers" riding for the young white millionaires think the best case scenario for your clients are? Based on everything, it's at least likely beyond a doubt that the text messages about invitation to the apartment and then the exchange afterwards happened(although be careful, woke media and organisations might just be spinning that narrative. Especially that cuck Rick Westhead who went after poor Rocky, Stannie, Joel and the boys!!!!!!!!!).

So where do we actually land in the best case scenario? A group of big ass athletes getting invited to a room to help each other gangbang a drunk woman fully able to consent, and believe she did so fully aware and feeling safe to have done otherwise? Or did they get in there just watch the original dude, and play some playstation while listening? Maybe play dice on the couple while they have the oringinal consenting sex?
I don't know about you, but even these scenarios makes these guys at best look like weirdos and not very ok in the head, and at worst like absolute scum of the earth. Take your pick. Or are we going to guess that she actually wasn't drunk, and just felt safe getting ganged by like 8 guys like the hardcore pornos you guys probably love, despite the alleged text messages afterwards(again though, probably fake, right?)?


EDIT: Also, I always feel the need to record the women I have sex with before or after saying that they are ok with it and that they consent with everything I'm about to done or have done. Kind of makes it feel like I am a mad scientist doing human experiments in order to cure a ravenous disease, and save humanity. Good roleplay, ya know?

I agree with this comment SO much, especially the edit. The most damning thing, even if it isn't specifically criminal, is the fact they realized "oh, shit, we might have done something bad here" and not only had her record that video but they MADE HER SHOWER AWAY ANY EVIDENCE.

I don't care if the perpetrators never see legal criminal justice. As a woman, I am fully aware convictions for rape are vanishingly rare. I don't need to see them tarred and feathered and strung up on pikes. But getting to play in the NHL is a privilege you earn and which can (and should) be denied you for character reasons just as much as a lack of skill on a sheet of ice. Participating in a gang rape of a woman intoxicated to the point of semi-consiousness, especially if you are unwise enough to participate in such an act on camera, should absolutely be just cause to never get to play another minute of NHL hockey. There are hundreds and thousands of other men who deserve that roster spot who didn't rape someone and get caught.

Some of you need to really search your souls if you think otherwise.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Mmm, as a woman, I know I sure love reading threads of posts from old white dudes (and I know that's what most people on this forum are) saying actually rape isn't a crime and those boys didn't mean it. I had to give up after page eight.



I agree with this comment SO much, especially the edit. The most damning thing, even if it isn't specifically criminal, is the fact they realized "oh, shit, we might have done something bad here" and not only had her record that video but they MADE HER SHOWER AWAY ANY EVIDENCE.

I don't care if the perpetrators never see legal criminal justice. As a woman, I am fully aware convictions for rape are vanishingly rare. I don't need to see them tarred and feathered and strung up on pikes. But getting to play in the NHL is a privilege you earn and which can (and should) be denied you for character reasons just as much as a lack of skill on a sheet of ice. Participating in a gang rape of a woman intoxicated to the point of semi-consiousness, especially if you are unwise enough to participate in such an act on camera, should absolutely be just cause to never get to play another minute of NHL hockey. There are hundreds and thousands of other men who deserve that roster spot who didn't rape someone and get caught.

Some of you need to really search your souls if you think otherwise.

Agreed 1000 percent. Thank you for speaking up.

 

[ShootIt]

Hopefully the reports and punishments are released soon. I know justice isn't instant and it takes time to investigate and weed through all the evidence collected.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Remember the Ian Cole thread from last year?

Half of this site wanted his head on a stick.

.... they were all pretty quiet when it came out to be a false accusation

Cole already broke up an engagement. Not the hill to die on.

 

[Prairie Habs]

I thought it was the states role to make sure rapist don't go unpunished...

But if we a playing this game. I am a paying customer that wants to make sure the NHL doesn't get involved on matters of justice and leaves that to the courts.

You're proudly stating you the league to not punish rapists? Weird flex, but okay...

You realize the league has a code of conduct and that breaking it could lead to negative consequences? This isn't some case of the NHL overstepping jurisdiction. If you were involved in a gang rape do you think your place of work would fire you?

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Ah good. More attacks on the woke mob and the cancel culture. Keep crusading brother.

It is very funny how they created this image of the other in their head, proclaimed their hatred of it, then just more or less just became what they imagined but with a different value set swapped in serving as the rationalization that it's "different" when they do similar "mob" like and other behaviours.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I thought it was the states role to make sure rapist don't go unpunished...

But if we a playing this game. I am a paying customer that wants to make sure the NHL doesn't get involved on matters of justice and leaves that to the courts.

you probably mad when Subway Jared got got, as a paying customer not wanting a business to get into legal matters. A take so obviously nonsensical that it is DOA. As a paying movie goer was probably upset that Weinstein doesn't get to produce any more of the popular movies he was responsible for getting made. etc.

 

[NyQuil]

you probably mad when Subway Jared got got, as a paying customer not wanting a business to get into legal matters. A take so obviously nonsensical that it is DOA. As a paying movie goer was probably upset that Weinstein doesn't get to produce any more of the popular movies he was responsible for getting made. etc.

This makes no sense.

Both Subway Jared and Harvey Weinstein were arrested and incarcerated through the judicial system.

You need a better example where there wasn't enough evidence to successfully prosecute and yet their employment was terminated anyway.

It's still possible that the London Police are going to issue charges, I don't know.

EDIT: Matt Lauer is a better example. He can't be punished via the legal system due to the statute of limitations in New York but was fired nonetheless.

If someone thinks Matt Lauer should have his job back because he was never arrested and prosecuted, they would be pro-rapist.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

 

[WarriorofTime]

Although he's not banned maybe teams would treat these players like Slava Voynov.

Voynov is an immigration matter, he agreed to voluntarily leave the country rather than face deportation proceedings.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Mmm, as a woman, I know I sure love reading threads of posts from old white dudes (and I know that's what most people on this forum are) saying actually rape isn't a crime and those boys didn't mean it. I had to give up after page eight.



I agree with this comment SO much, especially the edit. The most damning thing, even if it isn't specifically criminal, is the fact they realized "oh, shit, we might have done something bad here" and not only had her record that video but they MADE HER SHOWER AWAY ANY EVIDENCE.

I don't care if the perpetrators never see legal criminal justice. As a woman, I am fully aware convictions for rape are vanishingly rare. I don't need to see them tarred and feathered and strung up on pikes. But getting to play in the NHL is a privilege you earn and which can (and should) be denied you for character reasons just as much as a lack of skill on a sheet of ice. Participating in a gang rape of a woman intoxicated to the point of semi-consiousness, especially if you are unwise enough to participate in such an act on camera, should absolutely be just cause to never get to play another minute of NHL hockey. There are hundreds and thousands of other men who deserve that roster spot who didn't rape someone and get caught.

Some of you need to really search your souls if you think otherwise.

Thanks for this post. It sucks as a long time member of this forum of seeing what this place really is.

Hockey isn’t for everyone. That’s for sure.

 

[Silky Johnson]

You're proudly stating you the league to not punish rapists? Weird flex, but okay...

You realize the league has a code of conduct and that breaking it could lead to negative consequences? This isn't some case of the NHL overstepping jurisdiction. If you were involved in a gang rape do you think your place of work would fire you?

Well if I wasn't proven to have done so by a court, I would sue the shit out of my employer for defamation and wrongful dismissal.

Your comprehension skills are poor. My point is that courts determine people's guilt not angry mobs, rogue employers or virtue signaling randoms on hockey chat boards.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Obviously things like SA and rape are a tricky thing to prove in court, but if the NHL determines the players were involved and the facts of the case are what they seem, I hope they never play in the league again, and would fully support a punishment like that.

Unfortunately, "beyond a reasonable doubt" is the standard for very good reason, even though it does let a lot of truly scummy things go unpunished.

 

[Silky Johnson]

you probably mad when Subway Jared got got, as a paying customer not wanting a business to get into legal matters. A take so obviously nonsensical that it is DOA. As a paying movie goer was probably upset that Weinstein doesn't get to produce any more of the popular movies he was responsible for Ýgetting made. etc.

Harvey Weinstein and Jared Fogel were proven guilty the old fashioned way. I am happy they are in prison.

These players are currently guilty of nothing. The NHL is not equipped to properly investigate criminal matters and shouldn't be involved in any determination of guilt. If guilt is proven, then I will support their imprisonment and dismissal.