Olympics: Team USA 2022

[William H Bonney]

I think I explained myself well enough: they went with both dubious NCAA strategy AND made odd choices in the "veteran" slots. Therefore zero sense. I chose, however, not to discuss the first part because it's obviously a policy decision, whatever. They decided on the "young and hungry", so be it. The 2nd part, however, seems much more cut and dry. Player A is better than player B and that's all there is to it.

If a guy who succeeded in every major European league like Gunderson falls under the same umbrella of "middling pro player" as someone like Warsofsky who is like 3rd D on a mid-table DEL team, what can I tell you. I guess middling means different things to us.

I get that you believe the NCAA direction to be a dubious choice but that doesn't mean it makes zero sense.

Player A is better than Player B isn't cut and dry. That's all there is to it.

Gunderson's passport doesn't inherently make him better. Warsofsky had more success than Gunderson in the AHL and actually earned NHL time. Does that make him better? The answer is no but it's the same logic. And Warsofsky's success has been on the same ice size as the Olympics.

Gunderson is a middling pro just like Warsofsky. Could they have gone with one over the other? Sure. But you're acting like we selected Jack Johnson again while leaving home great players.

 

[SoundAndFury]

well they think that NCAA players are better suited than Lash, Arcobello etc. to beat an euro pro team, as you certainly know anything outside NHL, AHL, KHL is beer league anyway and nobody will care if they fail because then it's a worthless tournament since it's not best on best which they would have won easily

The funny thing is around half of those NCAA guys will end up in Europe eventually anyway, considering the usual development rates.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Too good, probably. The entire roster makes close to 0 sense.

Yah I'm sure young, fast and good NCAA players are confusing to you.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

The funny thing is around half of those NCAA guys will end up in Europe eventually anyway, considering the usual development rates.

Yah like Schroeder who you think should be on the team.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Gunderson's passport doesn't inherently make him better.

Yes but all those titles and awards he won do, in my opinion.

Warsofsky hung around in the AHL long enough (10 years!) to get a few call-ups to the NHL, that's not nearly the same logic. For it to be the same logic he should be dominating here in Europe as well, in the league like DEL even more so. Yet he isn't. And for that reason, Gunderson is likely being paid like 3 times more.

Yah like Schroeder who you think should be on the team.

Yes, indeed. Another apt observation. Around half of them will hope to be as good as Jordan Schroder, someday. Sadly most of those kids won't make a team as good as Jokerit or even the league as good as the KHL. Like some Hobey Baker winners: Ryan Duncan, Jack Connolly, Drew LeBlanc, etc. Sad realities of pro hockey.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Yes but all those titles and awards he won do, in my opinion.

Warsofsky hung around in the AHL long enough (10 years!) to get a few call-ups to the NHL, that's not nearly the same logic. For it to be the same logic he should be dominating here in Europe as well, in the league like DEL even more so. Yet he isn't. And for that reason, Gunderson is likely being paid like 3 times more.


Yes, indeed. Another apt observation. Around half of them will hope to be as good as Jordan Schroder, someday. Sadly most of those kids won't make a team as good as Jokerit or even the league as good as the KHL. Sad realities of pro hockey.

Hey who knows maybe those former NCAA players, will one day, be 34 and leading a European league after busting in the ECHL and AHL.

 

[iginlafan77]

It being behind is my point to contextualize the production of players in that league.

Its behind it, yes. But it's not a huge drop off behind

 

[William H Bonney]

Its behind it, yes. But it's not a huge drop off behind

Sure. But there's a difference between Lasch's success in the SHL and Arcobello's in the NL.

 

[William H Bonney]

Yes but all those titles and awards he won do, in my opinion.

Warsofsky hung around in the AHL long enough (10 years!) to get a few call-ups to the NHL, that's not nearly the same logic. For it to be the same logic he should be dominating here in Europe as well, in the league like DEL even more so. Yet he isn't. And for that reason, Gunderson is likely being paid like 3 times more.

The point is a guy like Gunderson isn't better by default for bouncing around all the European leagues while Warsofsky stayed in the AHL and had more success there than Gunderson ever did. And it's important that Warsofsky's success has been on the same size rink that will be used in the Olympics.

Who cares how much they make? Has nothing to do with who's the better option for the team.

How about answering this instead - why should USAH have expected Gunderson to do any better this Olympics at the prime age of 37 than he did 4 years ago when he was in his prime and a non-factor?

 

[Eye of Ra]

LoL a 34 year old with 7 goals and your being defensive. Undrafted and couldn't cut it even in the ECHL. What are you his agent ? Comical response about a player who is never coming back to succeed in the North America.

USA hockey, without NHL players being involved now, need developing players. I could say the same about Agostino being a dumb move as well. You gonna flip out about Kenny as well ?

Also my comments arent about diminishing European leagues either. What a childish response. Don't like my comments put me on ignore.

Why does his age matter? Best players should play no matter age. Also why do you ignore all the assists he have?

So what if he is undrafted. Many good players are.

Yes, he was not good in AHL and EHCL, he does not like it when its physical. However, OG is played on big rinks and he is one of the best players in SHL, a league that is nr3 in the world.

This tournament is not about developing players, its about winning.

 

[SoundAndFury]

How about answering this instead - why should USAH have expected Gunderson to do any better this Olympics at the prime age of 37 than he did 4 years ago when he was in his prime and a non-factor?

Because there is no reason to believe anyone else selected will be more of a factor.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Because there is no reason to believe anyone else selected will be more of a factor.

No reason? Well, that's not true. USA Hockey certainly doesn't see it that way.

 

[Namejs]

Hey who knows maybe those former NCAA players, will one day, be 34 and leading a European league after busting in the ECHL and AHL.

It looks like you literally don't know a single thing about hockey outside of North America. SHL is a more competitive league than AHL. If someone scores at a ppg rate over in Sweden, you can't possibly refer to a tiny sample size of games played in AHL in trying to make the point that the player sucks.

NCAA is about as good of a league as the Swedish *2nd division*. Yet you're snubbing a leading SHL forward over a bunch of kids playing mediocre amateur hockey.

It really doesn't make any sense.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

It looks like you literally don't know a single thing about hockey outside of North America. SHL is a more competitive league than AHL. If someone scores at a ppg rate over in Sweden, you can't possibly refer to a tiny sample size of games played in AHL in trying to make the point that the player sucks.

NCAA is about as good of a league as the Swedish *2nd division*. Yet you're snubbing a leading SHL forward over a bunch of kids playing mediocre amateur hockey.

It really doesn't make any sense.

Oh, the irony. It appears you don't much about the AHL or NCAA but keep at it.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Oh, the irony. It appears you don't much about the AHL or NCAA but keep at it.

Yeah i would say AHL is same level as SHL, NLA, Liiga. But NCAA is not. Good league thought.

 

[Czechboy]

Just reading above... I'd say some of you are 'sleeping on' how many awesome players come to the NHL out of the NCAA. The AHL is a bad league argument is twofold IMO.

If I'm a very good player but just can't cut it in the NHL (Kovar, Rattie, Honka, Shlepy) and the writing is on the wall... it is the absolute last place I want to play. NLA, SHL, KHL, DEL, Liiga all seem like much better options!

If I'm a very good player and think I can make the NHL ... AHL is where I need to be for my best chance. No league produces more NHL goalies and D then the AHL. I think there are only 3 goalies in the NHL right now that didn't go through the AHL - Koski, Shesterkin and Vlejmelka. 3 out of 64 (unless I missed someone). If there are 120 NHL D - I'd bet at least 80 went through AHL if not more. Put another way... most (I know there are exceptions) the Euro's come to CHL, NCAA and AHL to get to the NHL. Not many North Americans are flying to Europe to get into the NHL (also a handful of exceptions).

 

[SanDogBrewin]

It looks like you literally don't know a single thing about hockey outside of North America. SHL is a more competitive league than AHL. If someone scores at a ppg rate over in Sweden, you can't possibly refer to a tiny sample size of games played in AHL in trying to make the point that the player sucks.

NCAA is about as good of a league as the Swedish *2nd division*. Yet you're snubbing a leading SHL forward over a bunch of kids playing mediocre amateur hockey.

It really doesn't make any sense.

I have a ton of respect for leagues in Europe. I just don't want schleps and stiffs like Agostono and Warsofsky (sp?) on team USA.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Yeah i would say AHL is same level as SHL, NLA, Liiga. But NCAA is not. Good league thought.

Seems like there is a trend in regards to the NCAA. Can you explain a bit more why you don't think its a good league ?

 

[Eye of Ra]

Seems like there is a trend in regards to the NCAA. Can you explain a bit more why you don't think its a good league ?

I litterly wrote that NCAA is a good league. But its not on the level of top european league. Players in NCAA are all under 26.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Why does his age matter? Best players should play no matter age. Also why do you ignore all the assists he have?

So what if he is undrafted. Many good players are.

Yes, he was not good in AHL and EHCL, he does not like it when its physical. However, OG is played on big rinks and he is one of the best players in SHL, a league that is nr3 in the world.

This tournament is not about developing players, its about winning.

Would you say more undrafted players or more NCAA players end up playing at least 200 games in the NHL ?

USA has won a gold medal with NCAA players.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

I litterly wrote that NCAA is a good league. But its not on the level of top european league. Players in NCAA are all under 26.

You wrote up above that age shouldn't matter. Why mention all under 26 ?

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Because there is no reason to believe anyone else selected will be more of a factor.

Then you know nothing about some of the good NCAA players selected.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Would you say more undrafted players or more NCAA players end up playing at least 200 games in the NHL ?

USA has won a gold medal with NCAA players.

Lots of players from NCAA will never become NHLers.

That was 1980. And it was considered a miracle on ice.

 

[Eye of Ra]

You wrote up above that age shouldn't matter. Why mention all under 26 ?

SHL, KHL; NLA have good young players just like NCAA, the difference is that SHL, KHL, NLA have lots of players above 26. Its more competitive leagues.

 

[Czechboy]

Lots of players from NCAA will never become NHLers.

True..

Now tell me how many of the Canadian and US players playing in the Euro leagues will be in the NHL?

I'm positive that NCAA number is considerably higher, no?

Eg. I think Owen Power will be in the NHL. Now name me a guy from Canada/US in a Euro league that you think will be in the NHL?