Team toughness

[Thirty One]

By the way, nice job taking your supposed correlation and saying that it's a causative effect. I really recommend everyone on here takes an introductory statistics course. Anything. It's actually a very interesting science and would serve you well in life.

He also thinks that ice cream consumption causes drowning.

 

[The Gloaming]

BRB should then refrain from making blanket statements that leave the interpretation of his words up to the individual reading his comments. That being said, how would we go about characterizing Parros' on-ice hockey intelligence? I'd be interested to know the basis on which you'd conclude that he is anything but an intelligent player. Fighting majors? Instigators? Goals scored? How can we reasonably project Parros' on-ice intelligence versus a player with a different skill-set (brings different value to a club) such as a Pouliot or a Gaborik or a Phaneuf, etc?

AHL: 133 17 15 32 0.24
ECHL: 3 0 0 0 0.00
NHL: 458 18 17 35 0.08

His pro points. Right column is PPG.

If he's such an intelligent hockey player, than why does he never score? Even someone with very little talent could put up better numbers than that if they had a high hockey IQ.

 

[The Gloaming]

He also thinks that ice cream consumption causes drowning.

Well duh. The ice cream eating makes you weigh more, more dense, and therefore, more likely to drown. You didn't already know that?

 

[Thirty One]

Well duh. The ice cream eating makes you weigh more, more dense, and therefore, more likely to drown. You didn't already know that?

No. No. No.

It's a correlation/causation joke. Kind of a niche humor.

http://cardinschoolblog.blogspot.ca/2009/10/does-ice-cream-cause-drowning.html

So then why did Gaborik have such a terrible year? Why did our highest point scorer only finish with 54 points?

NGgator60 pls respond

 

[The Gloaming]

No. No. No.

It's a correlation/causation joke. Kind of a niche humor.

http://cardinschoolblog.blogspot.ca/2009/10/does-ice-cream-cause-drowning.html


NGgator60 pls respond

Yeah, was afraid it was a joke that I missed.

 

[Pizza]

You are perpetuating some sort of myth that our skill players would score more goals if they felt safer on the ice.

I agree it is a need, but getting better skill players that can put the puck in the net sure seems like a bigger need. This correlation that gooning it up will lead to more offensive production is nonsense.

I just go by what I've read in scores of interviews with NHL players.

They all say the same thing. It never varies.

So unless you have some NHL experience your not sharing with us, I would suggest that the myth making lies squarely in your corner.

 

[Thirty One]

I just go by what I've read in scores of interviews with NHL players.

They all say the same thing. It never varies.

So unless you have some NHL experience your not sharing with us, I would suggest that the myth making lies squarely in your corner.

NHL players have said they score more goals when their teammates fight?

 

[The Gloaming]

NHL players have said they score more goals when their teammates fight?

Yeah, perhaps one might be kind enough to find examples when making claims like this. I have never heard of it.

 

[eco's bones]

Don't think it's rocket science. Rangers need to get tougher. They also need to get better. Just bringing in toughness for its own sake is not completely productive. Rangers need to look at players who can play and who can add a toughness element to the team. Someone mentioned Buffalo's Marcus Foligno--the other day. He might not cost a lot. I mentioned Dalton Prout--a right shooting right side defenseman playing for Columbus. He might not cost a lot either but he also might hold up McIlrath if the Rangers are figuring Dylan is about ready. Zack Kassian is another. These are all young players--maybe not completely developed but who have enough skills to play in the NHL whether they fight or not.

To me this is much better than the Orr's, the Parros's, the McGrattan's who are much more than less one dimensional--not good players at all. The Bruins know that Shawn Thornton can do a credible job of checking his guy up and down his wing without fighting him if necessary and that once in while Thornton will even deposit a puck in the back of a net. The Senators know that Chris Neil is a good skater very capable of delivering heavy body checks and has a clue how to play the game. These are two good examples of older players who can play and play physically and fight. The Rangers need to find some younger versions of these two guys.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

I;m so confused. Why are we talking about drowning and cream

 

[Thirty One]

I;m so confused. Why are we talking about drowning and cream

Because NGgator60 was having trouble with the difference between correlation and causation so some very intelligent poster (I forget who) used that example to help explain the difference.

 

[NGgator60]

And here I was thinking that Boyle scored so many goals because of his unsustainable shooting % that season! Silly me! It was definitely because of Sean Avery and Michael Sauer.

You're leading me to believe that you clearly do not put any credence into the possibility that a bit of toughness on the roster helped to provide Brian Boyle with more space and confidence with which to operate on the ice. Let's agree to disagree.

 

[Thirty One]

Don't think it's rocket science. Rangers need to get tougher. They also need to get better.

No, because unlike the relationship between fighting and winning, rocket science can be proven.

 

[NGgator60]

By the way, nice job taking your supposed correlation and saying that it's a causative effect. I really recommend everyone on here takes an introductory statistics course. Anything. It's actually a very interesting science and would serve you well in life.

Same thing as the ridiculous argument that supposedly says that the Rangers throw games when they get scored on first, even if they take a lead.

Just because I jump up and now and it starts snowing, doesn't mean that me jumping up and down caused it to snow.

I'm rather confident that my academic background as it pertains to advanced statistics is quite sound. Not to mention my professional career in which I'm compensated in large part for my ability to interpret data and leverage it to the benefit of my firm. Please, expound upon your conclusions regarding the relationships that I've been discussing.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

Correlation is not causation...

 

[Thirty One]

I'm rather confident that my academic background as it pertains to advanced statistics is quite sound. Not to mention my professional career in which I'm compensated in large part for my ability to interpret data and leverage it to the benefit of my firm. Please, expound upon your conclusions regarding the relationships that I've been discussing.

I totally buy what you're saying because of all those big words....

 

[The Gloaming]

I'm rather confident that my academic background as it pertains to advanced statistics is quite sound. Not to mention my professional career in which I'm compensated in large part for my ability to interpret data and leverage it to the benefit of my firm. Please, expound upon your conclusions regarding the relationships that I've been discussing.

So your "advanced statistics" tell you that correlation = causation?

Not to mention that you're really reaching with the correlation that you have tried to establish.

 

[NGgator60]

No. No. No.

It's a correlation/causation joke. Kind of a niche humor.

http://cardinschoolblog.blogspot.ca/2009/10/does-ice-cream-cause-drowning.html


NGgator60 pls respond

Gaborik missed 20 games in 2010-2011 after suffering a shoulder surgery that would later be surgically repaired (torn labrum, often occurs after dislocation). Are you sure you want to cite an injured player as the basis for your argument?

 

[The Gloaming]

Gaborik missed 20 games in 2010-2011 after suffering a shoulder surgery that would later be surgically repaired (torn labrum, often occurs after dislocation). Are you sure you want to cite an injured player as the basis for your argument?

And the fact that ON ONE even broke 55 points?

 

[NGgator60]

Since I've joined this thread we've had a post insinuating that the Red Wings never employed tough players on their championship squad. This point was proven to be incorrect

We've also had an individual claim that Brian Boyle's career year had little to do with composition of the team he played on. This poster was unable to differentiate games played and goals scored.

 

[pinyata]

Tootoo would be a good addition to the fourth line and would add grit, too bad his contract sucks. Bickel should be brought up on the fourth line, good fighter.

As long as Boyle doesnt fight any more, Im good. Worst fighter Ive ever seen in my life. Why fight when you are THAT scared

 

[The Gloaming]

Since I've joined this thread we've had a post insinuating that the Red Wings never employed tough players on their championship squad. This point was proven to be incorrect

We've also had an individual claim that Brian Boyle's career year had little to do with composition of the team he played on. This poster was unable to differentiate games played and goals scored.

Brian Boyle's career year had everything to do with insane puck luck and scoring many fluke goals. All of this happened before January. After that, he was back to being the Boyle we know today.

Don't believe me? Go look at his NHL.com highlight reel and watch the goals he scored in 10-11.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

Brian Boyle's career year had everything to do with insane puck luck and scoring many fluke goals. All of this happened before January. After that, he was back to being the Boyle we know today.

Don't believe me? Go look at his NHL.com highlight reel and watch the goals he scored in 10-11.

Grond Jom Grond pls, don't use logic here.

Boyle scored all those off crazy luck, exactly. That season was an anomaly.

 

[Thirty One]

As long as Boyle doesnt fight any more, Im good. Worst fighter Ive ever seen in my life. Why fight when you are THAT scared

I didn't see him as scared. Probably should have been, because when he opened up it went poorly for him.

 

[Kakko]

Brian Boyle 2010-11 goals:

Brian Boyle (1) from Derek Boogaard and Steve Eminger
Brian Boyle (2) from Sean Avery and Michael Del Zotto
Brian Boyle (3) from Sean Avery and Ruslan Fedotenko
Brian Boyle (4) from Brandon Prust and Dan Girardi
Brian Boyle (5) from Dan Girardi and Artem Anisimov (PP)
Brian Boyle (6) from Dan Girardi and Sean Avery
Brian Boyle (7) (PP)
Brian Boyle (8) from Ruslan Fedotenko and Brandon Prust
Brian Boyle (9) from Dan Girardi
Brian Boyle (10) from Marc Staal and Brandon Prust (SH)

This is now 23 games into the season. Half his goals came in that time period. That's a hot start to the season, coupled with powerplay time. Three goals coming off of deflection from shots by Girardi, nothing to do with tough team mates. Shorthanded goal, again no relation to toughness. Of course, there's also the fact that Brandon Prust and Ruslan Fedotenko are pretty good hockey players.
Let's continue.

Brian Boyle (11) from Brandon Dubinsky and Ryan Callahan (EN)
Brian Boyle (12) from Alex Frolov and Marc Staal
Brian Boyle (13) from Michal Rozsival
Brian Boyle (14) from Ruslan Fedotenko and Brandon Prust
Brian Boyle (15) from Brandon Prust and Dan Girardi
Brian Boyle (16) from Marc Staal and Marian Gaborik (PP)
Brian Boyle (17) from Kris Newbury and Michael Sauer
Brian Boyle (18) from Marian Gaborik and Mats Zuccarello (PP)
Brian Boyle (19) from Marc Staal
Brian Boyle (20) from Erik Christensen and Brandon Prust
Brian Boyle (21) from Marc Staal and Brandon Prust

Oh boy. Let's just ignore the EN goal. The we've got... Alex Frolov, the ultimate tough guy. More powerplay goals, assisted by Marian Gaborik. A bunch more deflections on shots by defenders. And of course the goon himself, Erik Christensen.


Boyle scored 21 goals that year for a few reasons. He had skilled line mates. He was getting a ridiculous amount of deflections. He was getting powerplay time. And he played some more with skilled guys. And a crazy hot streak to start the year.