The Gloaming
23
That's cool. It seems crazy to me that pretty much every NHL player ever was the best player on his HS/midget team/wherever he played at 15/16.
Well...maybe except for John Scott.
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That's cool. It seems crazy to me that pretty much every NHL player ever was the best player on his HS/midget team/wherever he played at 15/16.
Well...maybe except for John Scott.
Leetch66
Registered User
94 Roster...better players yes...but also most tougher than current crop of guys .
Centers
11 Mark Messier (captain) Tough
20 Mike Hudson
14 Craig MacTavish Tough
13 Sergei Nemchinov Tough Russian
12 Ed Olczyk
Wingers
9 Adam Graves Could fight !
28 Steve Larmer Tough
36 Glenn Anderson
17 Greg Gilbert Tough
26 Joey Kocur Could fight
27 Alexei Kovalev
36 Nick Kypreos Could Fight
32 Stephane Matteau Tough
16 Brian Noonan Tough
10 Esa Tikkanen Tough
18 Mike Hartman Could Fight
Defensemen
2 Brian Leetch
4 Kevin Lowe Tough
23 Jeff Beukeboom Could Fight
25 Alexander Karpovtsev
6 Doug Lidster Tough
24 Jay Wells Could Fight
21 Sergei Zubov
Goaltenders
35 Mike Richter
30 Glenn Healy
NYR Viper
Registered User
I would LOVE to add Kassian to this team. LOVE.
He is going to be the type of player this team needs and sorely lacks.
In saying that, I wouldn't trade Hagelin for him.
He is going to be the type of player this team needs and sorely lacks.
In saying that, I wouldn't trade Hagelin for him.
Sheesh - the amount of correlations that have very little basis in fact are flying around in this thread, as they often do when it comes to a debate on tough guys.
The best argument is "They beat people up and make me feel"
The deterrent argument is jumping head first into a rabbit hole.
But the other stuff, like how goons are directly responsible for career offensive years from Jaromir Jagr to Brian Boyle is pretty much fiction.
Then counter my assertion with fact. You have not done so.
http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/NYR/2011.html
In 2010-2011, when Brian Boyle scored 21 goals, Derek Boogaard played exactly 1 game. Brandon Prust was acquired and played 13 games. Take a look at that roster and show me where this "toughness" is that your speak of, and better yet, how that translated to Boyle having a 20 goal season.
Leetch66
Registered User
Chris Kreider = ? Derek Stepan=soft Rick Nash=soft
Brad Richards=Soft Derick Brassard=soft Ryan Callahan (C)=Was Tough/willing
Carl Hagelin=soft Dominic Moore=soft Mats Zuccarello=soft
Benoit Pouliot =soft Brian Boyle =soft/willing Derek Dorsett/tough
LD RD
Ryan McDonagh/soft Dan Girardi/soft
Marc Staal (A)/soft Anton Stralman/soft
Michael Del Zotto/soft Justin Falk/tough
Brad Richards=Soft Derick Brassard=soft Ryan Callahan (C)=Was Tough/willing
Carl Hagelin=soft Dominic Moore=soft Mats Zuccarello=soft
Benoit Pouliot =soft Brian Boyle =soft/willing Derek Dorsett/tough
LD RD
Ryan McDonagh/soft Dan Girardi/soft
Marc Staal (A)/soft Anton Stralman/soft
Michael Del Zotto/soft Justin Falk/tough
So you are drawing a parallel from your experience playing high school hockey in Long Island, in a full-cage league of which I am sure fighting is outlawed, to professional hockey in the NHL? And you would like me to take your argument seriously?
I would've disagreed with your premise if you had cited the European professional leagues, as even their on-ice culture and rules promote quite a different brand of hockey, but you're going to cite a Long Island high school league as the basis for your qualified opinion that intimidation and toughness has no basis? Specious.
As an aside, I find it comical while also a bit insulting that you insinuate that tough players that might not have the skating skill that you arbitrarily deem worthy are "big dumb idiots." George Parros hails from one of the most prestigious prep high schools in NJ prior to attending Princeton and more recently representing the NHLPA in the labor dispute. Would you like to compare mental aptitudes with George?
The Gloaming
23
Dale Weise was so tough, yo.
Also, Booguard played 22 games. So boom! So much tough!
The Gloaming
23
How are McD, Girardi, Staal, D. Moore, and Boyle soft? Boyle is at the top of the hitting list for forwards every year. McD will go toe to toe with anyone in the league. Girardi (whom I dislike for other reasons) has made a name for himself though hits and blocked shots. Staal is the same way as McD.
Shoot, you're right.
22 games for Boogaard, 21 goals for Boyle. CONNECT THE DOTS.
Boogaard played 22 games that season, Sean Avery 76, Brandon Dubinsky 77, and Brandon Prust 82. You were interpreting their "goals scored."
Learn how to operate a statistical database correctly.
surf
Wheres the Reggae?
The Gloaming
23
I'm sure George Parros is a very intelligent guy in real life and I'd love to hold a conversation with him.
However, I'll be damned if BRB was't referring to his hockey sense and on-ice awareness. And you're not seriously going to argue that he's a smart hockey player, are you?
Im not drawing any outlandish parallel. Im leaving that to you and Orr, and a couple of the other crazies in this thread. I was asked if I ever played sports, and I answered. Of course, Orr mentioned that intimidation and fear are a part of hockey at any level.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
- 24,357
So it was Avery, Prust and Dubinsky who allowed Boyle to do so well that year? I wonder why it had to opposite effect on Gaborik...
The Gloaming
23
For every game that Boogaard played, Boyle scored almost 1 goal.
Dubinsky and Avery played so many games that no one even came close to matching their point totals to their GP. Because they're so great.
And Michael Sauer played 76, etc. It's alright, I clearly demonstrated a positive correlation between Boyle's success amongst a legion of tough players while you were not able to differentiate between goals and games played. I'm willing to respectfully entertain the merits of your other arguments but please just admit you were mistaken in this case so that I know we can discuss the merits of our debates in good faith.
Nah, I was referring to an IQ test. Because, on a hockey forum, those things should be more important than playing the game of hockey.
And here I was thinking that Boyle scored so many goals because of his unsustainable shooting % that season! Silly me! It was definitely because of Sean Avery and Michael Sauer.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
- 24,357
The Gloaming
23
So then why did Gaborik have such a terrible year? Why did our highest point scorer only finish with 54 points?
BRB should then refrain from making blanket statements that leave the interpretation of his words up to the individual reading his comments. That being said, how would we go about characterizing Parros' on-ice hockey intelligence? I'd be interested to know the basis on which you'd conclude that he is anything but an intelligent player. Fighting majors? Instigators? Goals scored? How can we reasonably project Parros' on-ice intelligence versus a player with a different skill-set (brings different value to a club) such as a Pouliot or a Gaborik or a Phaneuf, etc?
The Gloaming
23
By the way, nice job taking your supposed correlation and saying that it's a causative effect. I really recommend everyone on here takes an introductory statistics course. Anything. It's actually a very interesting science and would serve you well in life.
Same thing as the ridiculous argument that supposedly says that the Rangers throw games when they get scored on first, even if they take a lead.
Just because I jump up and now and it starts snowing, doesn't mean that me jumping up and down caused it to snow.
Same thing as the ridiculous argument that supposedly says that the Rangers throw games when they get scored on first, even if they take a lead.
Just because I jump up and now and it starts snowing, doesn't mean that me jumping up and down caused it to snow.
You don't really get science, do you?
Yet I do know how to operate a statistical database. Alas, we all have our specialties
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