Team China 2022

[BigBadBoar]

From the IIHF website:

Acquiring a new national eligibility (The ‘two-year’ case)
When a player has changed his citizenship or has acquired another citizenship and wants to participate for the first time in an IIHF competition representing the new country he/she must:

• Prove that he has participated for at least two consecutive hockey seasons and 16 consecutive months (480 days) in the national competitions of his new country after his 10th birthday during which period he has neither transferred to another country nor played ice hockey within any other country. Female players need to have participated on a consistent basis for at least one hockey season and have been member of the new national association for at least 8 consecutive months (240 days) during that period.
• Have an international transfer card (ITC) that shows the transfer to the national association of his new country and which was approved and dated at least 16 months (480 days) before the start of the IIHF competition in which he wishes to participate.
• For female players the period is 8 months (240 days) instead of 16 months.

These players acquiring a new citizenship need to have played 2 years in China. If they've played for another national team, it's 4 years

Ok, it used to be different some years ago. But still, most of the Kunlun players are going to meet this requirement by February 2022. For the others, I don't know what the IOC rules are, as the eligibility requirememts set by the IOC maybe supersede the IIHF ones? Or maybe it is a subject of some negotiation? In any case, China is going to lose all their games, it is only about them not getting smashed 25-0. Which is something neither IOC nor IIHF want, so they might make some exception for some guys? Who knows.

 

[Idlerlee]

Guess they won't review this after all:

IIHF confirm China's place in men's ice hockey tournament at Beijing 2022

China will keep their place in the men's ice hockey tournament at the 2022 Winter Olympic Games in Beijing, International Ice Hockey Federation (IIHF) President Luc Tardif has confirmed.
Speaking following a meeting of the IIHF Council today, where China's participation at Beijing 2022 was among the topics discussed, Tardif said the "status of the men’s national team as a host nation participant in the Olympic ice hockey tournament was confirmed by Congress and remains unchanged".

 

[iginlafan77]

Ok, it used to be different some years ago. But still, most of the Kunlun players are going to meet this requirement by February 2022.

Most would. But notably, I don't think either of their planned goalies (Jeremy Smith and Lasuzhin) would be eligible without an exemption from the rules

 

[Name Nameless]

As a Norwegian, I am very relieved. I assume Norway would have lost big in these games. And then the Chinese would have been "oh, you see? They lost big." Ignoring the fact we then not would have known how China would have looked. We wil get to see that, now.

 

[GotTheMovesLikeJagr]

While the statement by Tardif should have been deciding, the Norwegian Ice hockey Association (Norges Ishockeyforbund) contradicts this by claiming that the wording of the press release is unprecise and that the final decision on China's participation will take place after the two exhibition games in mid-November. NIHF thus still have a hope that Norway might replace China.

Norge gir ikke opp OL-håpet: - Avgjørelsen tas etter kampene

 

[garbageteam]

First of the two “test games” now in the second period and a 0-0 draw thus far. I can’t speculate what kind of score would justify removal, a 6-0 shellacking?

 

[Urbanskog]

First of the two “test games” now in the second period and a 0-0 draw thus far. I can’t speculate what kind of score would justify removal, a 6-0 shellacking?

Currently (midway into the second period) the shots are 32:2 for Omsk, however. Regardless, everyone already knows how Kunlun fares against competition in their own league.

 

[garbageteam]

4-0 now for Omsk.

 

[BigBadBoar]

4-0 now for Omsk.

5-0 final score, and this Kunlun team has been probably even stronger than the China NT, as not all the players from today's lineup will likely be eligible to play for China. I have read some info that Monday and Saturday Kunlun should play with a lineup which will be more or less the team China (= minus some imported players who won't be elibigle for the tournament, plus a few other Chinese guys who are not playing regularly in the KHL).

 

[pabst blue ribbon]

5-0 final score, and this Kunlun team has been probably even stronger than the China NT, as not all the players from today's lineup will likely be eligible to play for China. I have read some info that Monday and Saturday Kunlun should play with a lineup which will be more or less the team China (= minus some imported players who won't be elibigle for the tournament, plus a few other Chinese guys who are not playing regularly in the KHL).

Kunlun have had 8 native Chinese players on their roster throughout the season but they've mostly been scratches and when they do get into games they get less ice time than even the average 4th line player would

 

[BigBadBoar]

Kunlun have had 8 native Chinese players on their roster throughout the season but they've mostly been scratches and when they do get into games they get less ice time than even the average 4th line player would

Yeah, and those guys should play more Monday and Saturday, at least according to some rumors about IIHF wanting to see the play. If that's true, expect a slaughter.

 

[Albatros]

It's a farce if they prove their sufficient competence by losing 0:5 with ineligible players carrying the heaviest load.

 

[JackSlater]

Looks like a pretty bad joke. Not surprising given the parties involved though.

 

[BigBadBoar]

From how I understand the situation, it is not easy to kick them out according to the IOC rules. This is not much about what IIHF thinks, it is about IOC and international sport diplomacy (and not only sport, but diplomacy in general, after all). IOC doesn't want this to become a precedent, plus they need good relations with China, and so on. So China probably will play there, what IOC probably will try to ensure is to allow some of their imported player to play, even if they wouldn't meet the quite strict current IIHF rules. I am kind of for it, it is better if they play with players who are eligible by exception and lose "only" 0:10 than if they really had to play with their bunch of players who are, say, on the level of semi-amateurs in developed hockey countries, and lost 0:24 or similar. It is hard to understand why China with so many inhabitants and so much money hasn't been able to build a decent team in each Olympic winter sport prior to the OG they have long known they are going to host. But look at Chinese soccer - exactly the same disaster as Chinese hockey, and they have put quite a budged into soccer. Apparently some things are not exclusively about money / human resources.

 

[Albatros]

The difference is that in soccer they have tried and failed, in hockey they never even tried despite all the empty promises they made in years past. Of course they are now going to take part in the Olympic tournament if they so wish, nothing will prevent that, but it should not happen through an unconditional capitulation of the IIHF. Unfortunately exactly that seems to be the likeliest outcome here.

 

[BigBadBoar]

The difference is that in soccer they have tried and failed, in hockey they never even tried despite all the empty promises they made in years past. Of course they are now going to take part in the Olympic tournament if they so wish, nothing will prevent that, but it should not happen through an unconditional capitulation of the IIHF. Unfortunately exactly that seems to be the likeliest outcome here.

But IIHF has no competence to kick them out. They can express their disagreement, but that would bring zero effect and only would worsen the IIHF-IOC relations. There's no point in such move.

I don't know why China didn't put bigger effort in their hockey development program. They knew they are going to host the Winter Olympics, they knew what sports will be there, knew that hockey is one of the major Winter OG sports. If they underestimated the development of their, say, Nordic combined, which is a relatively minor nordic skiing sport, I would kind of understand that. But the hockey tournament usually grabs quite an attention internationally during WOG. Whe I compare that to biathlon (another of the bigger WOG sports), there they hired Ole Einar Björndalen, a biathlon legend, to coach their team and supervise their development program. Did they even try to hire a few internationally recognized hockey experts, youth coaches etc? I don't think so.

 

[Fjorden]

It's a farce if they prove their sufficient competence by losing 0:5 with ineligible players carrying the heaviest load.

From associated press after interwiev with Tardif:

“The team we will have in front of us, in two games, we will just to see the score and the way the game was playing, we will quickly know if they’ve got the level or not,” Tardif told The Associated Press in a recent interview. “It will be not only the score but the way the game was played.”

Officials worry China’s men’s hockey team not Olympics ready

Stats after Omsk-Kunlun

Shots: 61-10 favor Omsk. That's a very one sided game.
AVA 5-0 KRS | Avangard Omsk - Kunlun

That's qutie brutal. How will it look if they remove the players that are not eligble, and also place a stacked Canada as oponent?

 

[Albatros]

But IIHF has no competence to kick them out. They can express their disagreement, but that would bring zero effect and only would worsen the IIHF-IOC relations. There's no point in such move.

I don't know why China didn't put bigger effort in their hockey development program. They knew they are going to host the Winter Olympics, they knew what sports will be there, knew that hockey is one of the major Winter OG sports. If they underestimated the development of their, say, Nordic combined, which is a relatively minor nordic skiing sport, I would kind of understand that. But the hockey tournament usually grabs quite an attention internationally during WOG. Whe I compare that to biathlon (another of the bigger WOG sports), there they hired Ole Einar Björndalen, a biathlon legend, to coach their team and supervise their development program. Did they even try to hire a few internationally recognized hockey experts, youth coaches etc? I don't think so.

By allowing China to use players that are not eligible according to rules binding to every other team a precedent is created that is likely to erode the credibility of international hockey for years to come, appeasement should not be limitless the way it is now. In other words let them take part, but don't make concessions that endanger the integrity of the sport.

One of the key promises made was to establish a domestic ice hockey league in China, even that commitment was not honored. A failure would be palatable if it was made acting in good faith, but the Chinese never even intended to follow through. With zero consequences.

 

[BigBadBoar]

By allowing China to use players that are not eligible according to rules binding to every other team a precedent is created that is likely to erode the credibility of international hockey for years to come, appeasement should not be limitless the way it is now. In other words let them take part, but don't make concessions that endanger the integrity of the sport.

One of the key promises made was to establish a domestic ice hockey league in China, even that commitment was not honored. A failure would be palatable if it was made acting in good faith, but the Chinese never even intended to follow through. With zero consequences.

Yeah, I see Your point, but what should IIHF do? Withdraw ice hockey from the OG? That would make little sense. They can say they don't like what is happening, and the probably will, but what that will change? The precedent may be unpleasant but still, China is going to lose all games quite brutally. It is not the case that they would build a roster of imported top professional and really compete with Canada or Russia, very probably not even with Latvia or Denmark. They will just be a total underdog to complete the number of competing teams. We should look at that this way.

 

[Albatros]

They just shouldn't allow any exceptions to eligibility rules, to me China using ineligible players in these showcase games is a clear indication of intending to select them for the Olympic tournament as well. Now would be the time to announce that it is not permissible and if China wants to take part they will have to manage with the players that are eligible.

Mostly that has consequences for their goalie situation of course, yesterday they very likely would have lost in double digits with Paris O'Brien or another eligible player in goal.

 

[BigBadBoar]

They just shouldn't allow any exceptions to eligibility rules, to me China using ineligible players in these showcase games is a clear indication of intending to select them for the Olympic tournament as well. Now would be the time to announce that it is not permissible and if China wants to take part they will have to manage with the players that are eligible.

Mostly that has consequences for their goalie situation of course, yesterday they very likely would have lost in double digits with Paris O'Brien or another eligible player in goal.

They might say that, and? IOC says they can play anyways, the Olympics are organized by IOC at the first place. IIHF can say "there in no hockey then", IOC responds with "OK, there is no hockey." Because long term relations with China are more important to IOC than one hockey tournament at one Olympics. Would such clash be reasonable, because of the clearly weakest team in the competition? If the tournament was organized by the IIHF as the supreme body, that would be a completely different thing. But as things are now, IIHF cannot do much about it. The important thing to me is that whatever roster China might bring, it will not spoil the tournament. It is not going to be like certain handball World Cup in Quatar (I believe it was Quatar), where the host country literally hired top professionals from all around the world, and suddedly Quatar was among the best teams. Nobody ever heard about the Quatar handball team before neither after. This is not going to be such case. China is going to lose all their games by a lot, with 4-5 "shady zone" imported players or without.

 

[Albatros]

It is indeed up to the IOC to approve the rules of individual federations such as the IIHF, but I doubt this matter would be significant enough for them to open that can of worms. Either way it would set a precedent that would in principle allow any team to nominate any players given that they have citizenship regardless of when or how it was acquired. Predictable future denial of such precedent in turn would just dismantle any credibility and integrity these rules ever had.

 

[ES]

I looked at the Summer Olympics of 2000s and here are some of the worst home teams in team sports.

Football, women
2004: Greece lost all three games: 0-3 against USA, 0-1 against Australia and 0-7 against Brazil
Handball, men
2000: Australia lost all games, placement game by two and all group games by at least ten.
2012: Great Britain lost all games by at least 11.
Handball, women
2000: Australia lost all games, placement game by eight and all group games by at least ten
2004: Greece lost all games by at least eight
2012: Great Britain lost all games by at least six
Field hockey, men
2016: Brazil lost all games by at least seven
Volleyball, men
2012: Great Britain lost all games 0-3, only once a set with 24-26
Water polo, men
2012: Great Britain lost all games by at least six
Water polo, women
2016: Brazil lost all games by at least five

 

[BigBadBoar]

I looked at the Summer Olympics of 2000s and here are some of the worst home teams in team sports.

Football, women
2004: Greece lost all three games: 0-3 against USA, 0-1 against Australia and 0-7 against Brazil
Handball, men
2000: Australia lost all games, placement game by two and all group games by at least ten.
2012: Great Britain lost all games by at least 11.
Handball, women
2000: Australia lost all games, placement game by eight and all group games by at least ten
2004: Greece lost all games by at least eight
2012: Great Britain lost all games by at least six
Field hockey, men
2016: Brazil lost all games by at least seven
Volleyball, men
2012: Great Britain lost all games 0-3, only once a set with 24-26
Water polo, men
2012: Great Britain lost all games by at least six
Water polo, women
2016: Brazil lost all games by at least five

Yeah, but to lose, say 15:30 in handball is equal rather to something like 2:8 in hockey than 0:25 in hockey. If China was losing with scores like 1:7, 2:8 and similar, it would be completely OK. Something like Italy in Torino 2006. But there is quite a probability they may be losing with like 0:20 and more. Such scores look really weird in today's elite hockey.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Games involving China will be ones no one will want to play or watch... capturing the Olympic spirit...