Olympics: Team Canada 2022, Part III

[pman25]

I'd lean towards Tom Wilson making the team, probably not that hot of a take at this point. On Defense, I'd go

Theodore-Pietrangelo
Toews-Makar
Pelech-Ekblad
Ex: Reilly, Doughty

 

[86Habs]

Olympic boycotts are just sabre rattling exercises that only really impact the athletes. Not as much in the case of the hockey players, but for the other athletes who in many cases get one chance every four years to be showcased on a large scale it's a shitty price to pay to lose your opportunity because some of the politicians decided last minute to publicly and ineffectively frown at China. I've got no interest in the theatre of Olympic boycotts. If Western countries want to begin a process of disengaging from China ad actually having an impact then I will support that, but unlike Olympic boycotts there is actually a price to be paid there. It's also extremely unlikely to happen, so empty gestures it will be.

All that to say, I hope hat the Olympic hockey tournament goes off without issue and with NHL players present.

I agree that a diplomatic boycott is basically bullshit and completely ineffective, but a full boycott (i.e., not sending athletes to Beijing) accomplishes two things: 1) removes the possibility of further kidnapping/political hostage taking/torturing of Canadian citizens/athletes by communist China; 2) lets it be known that Canada (and whatever like-minded western nations join us) refuses to participate in the glorification of a genocidal communist China as Olympic host. A better move would have been for the IOC to completely move the Olympics from Beijing, but there is no chance of that happening at this stage. All we can do at this point is provide our athletes with an opportunity to not participate if they so choose, and basically show up and embarrass China's athletes in competition for all the world to see.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Some real interesting selections here...

Taking both Hyman and Wilson sounds insane. I actually think Wilson makes more sense. Hyman is baffling to me. He also sucked in the playoffs for Toronto much like the oft-criticized Marner and any offensive increase this year has come from the PP which he won't be touching on team Canada.

We're going to have Bergeron, Marchand, Stone, Couturier, ROR, etc. We don't need defensive/PK specialists, we have guys elite at that who also bring skill ffs.

 

[lemairefan]

I agree that a diplomatic boycott is basically bullshit and completely ineffective, but a full boycott (i.e., not sending athletes to Beijing) accomplishes two things: 1) removes the possibility of further kidnapping/political hostage taking/torturing of Canadian citizens/athletes by communist China; 2) lets it be known that Canada (and whatever like-minded western nations join us) refuses to participate in the glorification of a genocidal communist China as Olympic host. A better move would have been for the IOC to completely move the Olympics from Beijing, but there is no chance of that happening at this stage. All we can do at this point is provide our athletes with an opportunity to not participate if they so choose, and basically show up and embarrass China's athletes in competition for all the world to see.

I think many more people support the diplomatic boycott rather that are against it. Had the govt of Canada said "Unlike the USA, we are not going to boycott the Olympics diplomatically (suggesting without actually saying "We are willing to support the aggrandizement opportunity of a human rights abusing nation (sorry The 2 Michaels!)"), I'm sure there would have been a considerable uproar from many Canadians.

Many athletes want to participate in the Olympics. It's a bit selfish, which is a human trait. All of are "guilty" of it on a minute-by-minute, hourly basis. All of our lives. It's also about morals and ethics. When one is "overly" selfish, it highlights the moral and ethical issues. Would these same athletes want to go the Olympics were they hosted by a country that still had legalized slavery? Or abuse of women and children? Would these same athletes go to the Olympics if they were being held in current-day Afghanistan? North Korea? Likely not. So there IS a line they won't step over. Where is that line? Would you be willing to accept an answer from an athlete "I don't know where that line is."? Wouldn't that basically be an attempt to deflect and avoid answering the question? Many would likely be afraid to answer that question for fear of the reactions of others, but make no mistake, in the athlete's mind, there IS a line.

Most viewers are also hypocrites. They don't want Canadian government officials supporting China's propaganda, yet they will happily watch the events on tv (Personally, I don't intend to watch any of the Olympics)

For North Americans (Americans and Canadians), the biggest events at the Winter Olympics on a worldwide scale will be the ice hockey and figure skating events. It is there, North American athlete boycotts would be most visible globally. How many hockey players and figure skaters are going to boycott Beijing?

I hope every Canadian Olympic athlete calls and speaks with The 2 Michaels and asks them if they support their participation

 

[86Habs]

Some real interesting selections here...

Taking both Hyman and Wilson sounds insane. I actually think Wilson makes more sense. Hyman is baffling to me. He also sucked in the playoffs for Toronto much like the oft-criticized Marner and any offensive increase this year has come from the PP which he won't be touching on team Canada.

We're going to have Bergeron, Marchand, Stone, Couturier, ROR, etc. We don't need defensive/PK specialists, we have guys elite at that who also bring skill ffs.

That first line of his is really awful, honestly. And the forward group as a whole makes poor use of complementary skills and pre-existing chemistry.

I agree that Wilson makes more sense than Hyman. By his own explanation (and Armstrong's), Wilson is battle tested, Hyman isn't. Hyman has never been out of the 1st round of the playoffs, and has never played for Team Canada at any level.

I also don't like Morrissey or Nurse playing above Ekblad on defence, but whatever.

 

[centipede2233]

Man, I’d love to see a RoR- kadri-Wilson line lol

 

[Mathieukferland]

Some real interesting selections here...

Taking both Hyman and Wilson sounds insane. I actually think Wilson makes more sense. Hyman is baffling to me. He also sucked in the playoffs for Toronto much like the oft-criticized Marner and any offensive increase this year has come from the PP which he won't be touching on team Canada.

We're going to have Bergeron, Marchand, Stone, Couturier, ROR, etc. We don't need defensive/PK specialists, we have guys elite at that who also bring skill ffs.

Wilson makes more sense, Hyman for me I would much rather have Mangiapane if they decide they want to go that direction; just as effective in puck retrieval and is a better goal scorer and penalty killer. Proven internationally as well

 

[jj cale]

Both Wilson and Hyman in? cripes.

 

[BoxOfChocolates]

Toews-Makar needs to be a pairing

 

[Mathieukferland]

Toews-Makar needs to be a pairing

Most of the media projections in Canada are horrible and home-titled. There is no way that competent hockey managers will leave our Devon Toews and Aaron Ekblad at the expense of Josh Morrisey and Darnell Nurse (you may laugh but none of the TSN and only two of the RDS rosters had Toews and Ekblad)

 

[JackSlater]

I agree that a diplomatic boycott is basically bullshit and completely ineffective, but a full boycott (i.e., not sending athletes to Beijing) accomplishes two things: 1) removes the possibility of further kidnapping/political hostage taking/torturing of Canadian citizens/athletes by communist China; 2) lets it be known that Canada (and whatever like-minded western nations join us) refuses to participate in the glorification of a genocidal communist China as Olympic host. A better move would have been for the IOC to completely move the Olympics from Beijing, but there is no chance of that happening at this stage. All we can do at this point is provide our athletes with an opportunity to not participate if they so choose, and basically show up and embarrass China's athletes in competition for all the world to see.

1 isn't a realistic possibility as far as I can imagine both from following the news in general and having been to China many times. Much too high profile an act and something that would bring scrutiny to China many magnitudes beyond what any boycott could ever do. 2 is a falsehood. Canada and the other countries implicitly tolerate and even encourage China in so many ways all the time. Take steps to cut economic ties with China in as many ways as possible, as expensive as that would be, and you might see results. Keeping the athletes who train in relative anonymity from the Olympics so that Joe Canuck can pat himself on the back for "standing up to China" in a meaningless exercise does nothing. China isn't hosting the Olympics to impress the Western countries. It's a show of strength to the Chinese people (and some other countries I suppose) and if various countries don't show up it's not going to cause people in China to suddenly question their own government but rather to rally around the idea of being unfairly singled out. They won't care that much about the medal tally since China is not a winter sports power by any stretch. Nothing should ever be expected of the IOC but for it to follow the money. The Olympics were held in Germany in 1936, it's not a new thing for scummy regimes to host the Olympics.

Anyway I don't want to cause further deviation. I think that a boycott would be a very empty gesture, not that it's going to be happening beyond the politicians.

Some real interesting selections here...

Taking both Hyman and Wilson sounds insane. I actually think Wilson makes more sense. Hyman is baffling to me. He also sucked in the playoffs for Toronto much like the oft-criticized Marner and any offensive increase this year has come from the PP which he won't be touching on team Canada.

We're going to have Bergeron, Marchand, Stone, Couturier, ROR, etc. We don't need defensive/PK specialists, we have guys elite at that who also bring skill ffs.

As much as I think a Nova Scotia line would be effective that's a pretty poor team all things considered. I do not get Hyman consideration since he doesn't even get the Kunitz (even though Hyman is somewhat better than Kunitz) push as he doesn't play with McDavid most of the time.

I agree about the guys like Stone, O'Reilly, and Couturier. Canada has all star level "role players" for the tournament and it is a big advantage. There is not need to take actual role players.

 

[centipede2233]

Most of the media projections in Canada are horrible and home-titled. There is no way that competent hockey managers will leave our Devon Toews and Aaron Ekblad at the expense of Josh Morrisey and Darnell Nurse (you may laugh but none of the TSN and only two of the RDS rosters had Toews and Ekblad)

I think media likes to pick some players to give the audience a shock and awe moment

 

[Zybalto]

Some real interesting selections here...

Taking both Hyman and Wilson sounds insane. I actually think Wilson makes more sense. Hyman is baffling to me. He also sucked in the playoffs for Toronto much like the oft-criticized Marner and any offensive increase this year has come from the PP which he won't be touching on team Canada.

We're going to have Bergeron, Marchand, Stone, Couturier, ROR, etc. We don't need defensive/PK specialists, we have guys elite at that who also bring skill ffs.

Jeezus, the absolute state of our media.

Hyman had 1 point in the playoffs blowing chance after chance setup by Marner (Price was a factor too of course) and is actually producing worse 5v5 this year and he somehow gets the nod over Marner?

After some initial line juggling with Matthews out, Marner is producing at a 30 goal 95 points pace the last 17 games and is tied for 1st among all forwards for takeaways in the league despite missing the last couple games with injury. I want this team to win and Marner is one of the best two way wingers in the league (whose also rocking a 5v5 65% xGF% over the last two playoffs, tops among all forwards with 200+ minutes..how awful on his part that his team shot 2% against elite goaltending). I'm not gonna hold it against McDavid that he's only won a single playoff game the last 4 years or against Crosby that his team has crashed out as the favorite 3 years in a row (with Crosby only grabbing 6 points in 15 games). The only question with Marner is whether or not you have him in the top 6 or you want him maybe with Tavares for chemistry. Leaving him off is Zamuner level stupid. Why not leave Huberdeau off too? Not only first round exits but mostly not made the playoffs on his resume? So stupid. I can see the talent in the player and what they bring and Marner is on many nights the best player on a team with Matthews and Tavares on it. He's a lock.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Some real interesting selections here...

Taking both Hyman and Wilson sounds insane. I actually think Wilson makes more sense. Hyman is baffling to me. He also sucked in the playoffs for Toronto much like the oft-criticized Marner and any offensive increase this year has come from the PP which he won't be touching on team Canada.

We're going to have Bergeron, Marchand, Stone, Couturier, ROR, etc. We don't need defensive/PK specialists, we have guys elite at that who also bring skill ffs.

Taking Hyman over Marner would be the most smooth brained decision they could ever make. It would actually be hilarious.

 

[pman25]

Also don't see why adding Wilson should come at the expense of Marner. I'd slot Marner over Hyman.

They can do

Huberdeau-McDavid-MacKinnon
Stamkos-Point-Marner
Marchand-Crosby-Bergeron
O'Reilly-Couturier-Stone
Tavares, Wilson

 

[Mathieukferland]

Jeezus, the absolute state of our media.

Hyman had 1 point in the playoffs blowing chance after chance setup by Marner (Price was a factor too of course) and is actually producing worse 5v5 this year and he somehow gets the nod over Marner?

After some initial line juggling with Matthews out, Marner is producing at a 30 goal 95 points pace the last 17 games and is tied for 1st among all forwards for takeaways in the league despite missing the last couple games with injury. I want this team to win and Marner is one of the best two way wingers in the league (whose also rocking a 5v5 65% xGF% over the last two playoffs, tops among all forwards with 200+ minutes..how awful on his part that his team shot 2% against elite goaltending). I'm not gonna hold it against McDavid that he's only won a single playoff game the last 4 years or against Crosby that his team has crashed out as the favorite 3 years in a row (with Crosby only grabbing 6 points in 15 games). The only question with Marner is whether or not you have him in the top 6 or you want him maybe with Tavares for chemistry. Leaving him off is Zamuner level stupid. Why not leave Huberdeau off too? Not only first round exits but mostly not made the playoffs on his resume? So stupid. I can see the talent in the player and what they bring and Marner is on many nights the best player on a team with Matthews and Tavares on it. He's a lock.

If Marner played in Columbus he would be a near-lock

 

[slobbergob]

Some of those selections are a big yikes.

 

[86Habs]

1 isn't a realistic possibility as far as I can imagine both from following the news in general and having been to China many times. Much too high profile an act and something that would bring scrutiny to China many magnitudes beyond what any boycott could ever do. 2 is a falsehood. Canada and the other countries implicitly tolerate and even encourage China in so many ways all the time. Take steps to cut economic ties with China in as many ways as possible, as expensive as that would be, and you might see results. Keeping the athletes who train in relative anonymity from the Olympics so that Joe Canuck can pat himself on the back for "standing up to China" in a meaningless exercise does nothing. China isn't hosting the Olympics to impress the Western countries. It's a show of strength to the Chinese people (and some other countries I suppose) and if various countries don't show up it's not going to cause people in China to suddenly question their own government but rather to rally around the idea of being unfairly singled out. They won't care that much about the medal tally since China is not a winter sports power by any stretch. Nothing should ever be expected of the IOC but for it to follow the money. The Olympics were held in Germany in 1936, it's not a new thing for scummy regimes to host the Olympics.

Anyway I don't want to cause further deviation. I think that a boycott would be a very empty gesture, not that it's going to be happening beyond the politicians.

I disagree with some of this, but agree with what I think is your central point in that taking steps to cut economic ties/reliance on China is more meaningful that any sort of diplomatic or full athletic boycott of the upcoming Olympics. I'll leave it at that, and veer myself away from political discussion.

 

[Mathieukferland]

Seems like a good time for the 2 month in update


Bergeron-Crosby-Marchand

No explanation needed, Crosby has picked it up and Bergeron is the Selke favourite

Stamkos-McDavid-Huberdeau

No change from past update, Huberdeau has taken the Florida offense on his
shoulder since Barkov has been injured

Kyrou-MacKinnon-Point

Barzal drops out for Kyrou, who is the most like for like replacement available with his rapid pace and creativity. This line is
basically a relay team

Mangiapane-O’Reilly-Stone
Wilson
Tavares
Marner

Couturier, as much as it hurts me to say this, has been bad the last month. Mangiapane elevated from a 13th forward spot to take his place

Just missed: Scheifele, Dubois, Couturier, Giroux, Couture, Suzuki (CLL), Nugent-Hopkins, Barzal, Cirelli (CLL), Danault, Hyman (CLL)

Toews-Makar

Best pair in the NHL this year. Toews has turned around Makar and Colorado’s fortunes since coming back.

Theodore-Pietrangelo

Have both picked up their games recently after slow starts

Ekblad-Doughty
Weegar
Hamilton
Pelech

Ekblad played LD occasionally last year and for team NA. Doughty is back with a bang.

Just missed: Létang, Burns, Parayko, E. Bouchard, Byram, Chabot, Nurse, Rielly

Price
Fleury
Hart

Price skating again, Fleury has picked up his game in the passed month. Third spot a toss up between Hart and Binnington

Just missed: Binnington (CLL), Blackwood (CLL), Kuemper (CLL)

Ineligible: Kadri (NLL), Batherson (NLL), Jarry (NLL), Talbot (NLL), Bertuzzi (NV), Girard (NLL)

 

[Voight]

Some real interesting selections here...

Taking both Hyman and Wilson sounds insane. I actually think Wilson makes more sense. Hyman is baffling to me. He also sucked in the playoffs for Toronto much like the oft-criticized Marner and any offensive increase this year has come from the PP which he won't be touching on team Canada.

We're going to have Bergeron, Marchand, Stone, Couturier, ROR, etc. We don't need defensive/PK specialists, we have guys elite at that who also bring skill ffs.

Armstrongs battle tested excuse is kind of a head scratcher. Rick Nash had 4 career playoff games before being selected to the 2010 team, Weber 16, Doughty 0, Bergeron 11.

In 2014 Tavares had 6 career playoff games, Subban 11, Benn 0, Duchene 6.

(He was part of both those managment teams)

Hyman making the team would be another dumb one along the lines of Zamuner, Kunitz and Morrow. I get Marner has struggled the last 3 playoffs but he has 5 less career playoff points than Wilson in 50 less games. He's also not going to be one of the top options the way he is with the Leafs due to TC's ridiculous depth which could help him.

 

[93gilmour93]

If team Canada qualifies for the World cup should we send our team to Quatar. Why did we send a team to Russia in 2014?

I’d love to answer you properly but I’ll just end up getting a warning or infraction if I do so I’ll just stick with it would be great if we didn’t send athletes over for the Olympics.

 

[86Habs]

Armstrongs battle tested excuse is kind of a head scratcher. Rick Nash had 4 career playoff games before being selected to the 2010 team, Weber 16, Doughty 0, Bergeron 11.

In 2014 Tavares had 6 career playoff games, Subban 11, Benn 0, Duchene 6.

(He was part of both those managment teams)

Hyman making the team would be another dumb one along the lines of Zamuner, Kunitz and Morrow. I get Marner has struggled the last 3 playoffs but he has 5 less career playoff points than Wilson in 50 less games. He's also not going to be one of the top options the way he is with the Leafs due to TC's ridiculous depth which could help him.

“How do you perform in the Stanley Cup Playoffs and if your team doesn’t get there how do you perform in the World Championship?” You missed the bolded part of Armstrong's quote. All of the players you mentioned got their asses over to Europe for the World Championships after their NHL teams didn't make/got eliminated from the playoffs. In Nash's case, he played in 3 WC's (39 points in 27 games) AND the 2006 Olympics before 2010. Duchene played in 3 WCs before 2014. It shouldn't be any surprise that the 2010 and 2014 management teams looked to international resumes in cases where good individual players were on struggling NHL franchises.

But I agree with you on Hyman - he has neither the playoff resume, nor the international resume to merit a spot on this team. Its actually kind of humorous that this sportswriter referenced that particular Armstrong quote, yet projects Hyman on Team Canada. It doesn't add up.

 

[Joe n]

keep athletes that have spent over half their lives training for this one opportunity home isn't the answer

 

[Voight]

“How do you perform in the Stanley Cup Playoffs and if your team doesn’t get there how do you perform in the World Championship?” You missed the bolded part of Armstrong's quote. All of the players you mentioned got their asses over to Europe for the World Championships after their NHL teams didn't make/got eliminated from the playoffs. In Nash's case, he played in 3 WC's (39 points in 27 games) AND the 2006 Olympics before 2010. Duchene played in 3 WCs before 2014. It shouldn't be any surprise that the 2010 and 2014 management teams looked to international resumes in cases where good individual players were on struggling NHL franchises.

But I agree with you on Hyman - he has neither the playoff resume, nor the international resume to merit a spot on this team. Its actually kind of humorous that this sportswriter referenced that particular Armstrong quote, yet projects Hyman on Team Canada. It doesn't add up.

I mean, Wilson has never played in a World Championship

(I personally wouldn't mind him on the team - big fan of his - but not at the expense of a highly skilled player such as Marner)

 

[86Habs]

I mean, Wilson has never played in a World Championship

(I personally wouldn't mind him on the team - big fan of his - but not at the expense of a highly skilled player such as Marner)

Yeah I think its more of a playoff resume OR international resume deal, from Armstrong's perspective. Wilson does have the 2018 NHL playoffs on his resume, so I'll give him credit for that. I'd prefer to have neither Hyman nor Wilson on the team personally, but if forced to choose it would be Wilson. Or Boone f'n Jenner.

(the Jenner part was a joke)