Olympics: Team Canada 2022, Part III

[GoodNewfieBoy]

Brent Burns has fallen off so much that he doesn’t even get talked about ? Isn’t he second in the league in ice time?

 

[Mathieukferland]

Brent Burns has fallen off so much that he doesn’t even get talked about ? Isn’t he second in the league in ice time?

First in the league in giveaways

 

[Mathieukferland]

I’m actually liking the USA roster more and I’m Canadian. Even there forwards are red hot, terry, matthews, guantzel, connor, gudreau, m.ktachuk.

Nah, I am still taking Canada and probably Russia over them, they’re better in goal but apart from that Canada doesn’t have any defensemen they have to hide 5v5 (à la Seth Jones, Carlson, Quinn Hughes) and the forward group is very good but lacks the elite Selke options that Canada has, and slightly less star power in the top 6

 

[centipede2233]

Nah, I am still taking Canada and probably Russia over them, they’re better in goal but apart from that Canada doesn’t have any defensemen they have to hide 5v5 (à la Seth Jones, Carlson, Quinn Hughes) and the forward group is very good but lacks the elite Selke options that Canada has, and slightly less star power in the top 6

You conveniently forgot reigning Norris Adam fox, pesce, slavin, werenski and mcavoy…..I think you are grossly underestimating the Americans. I’m Canadian and cheer as such, but I’m a realist, prepare to be dissapointed. Canada doesn’t always win, in fact 2 out of the 5 olympics team Canada didn’t even medal. So things do happen.

 

[Mathieukferland]

You conveniently forgot reigning Norris Adam fox, pesce, slavin, werenski and mcavoy…..I think you are grossly underestimating the Americans. I’m Canadian and cheer as such, but I’m a realist, prepare to be dissapointed. Canada doesn’t always win, in fact 2 out of the 5 olympics team Canada didn’t even medal. So things do happen.

I didn’t say they didn’t have good responsible defensemen, I just said that had a high percentage of those who are iffy when it comes to defending; however if the management team gets it wrong and brings players like Nurse, Chabot, Rielly etc I would definitely say that negates the Canadian advantage

 

[centipede2233]

I didn’t say they didn’t have good responsible defensemen, I just said that had a high percentage of those who are iffy when it comes to defending; however if the management team gets it wrong and brings players like Nurse, Chabot, Rielly etc I would definitely say that negates the Canadian advantage

There’s really a number of things that make me think the USA will prevail over Canada. One main one as you alluded is goaltending. The second thing is goal scoring. As of right now, 6 of the top 10 nhl goal scorers are American. I lived through Nagano and Turin olympics, I’ve seen it happen. And I don’t know how old you are, but for the people in there 20’s who only have 2010, 2014 and the World Cup in 2016 to experience, things go south to.
A 34 yr old Roy and a 34 yr old brodeur we’re on teams that didn’t medal, is 34 yr old carey mr. overrated price really going to achieve something Roy and brodeur couldn’t? This team Canada is ripe for the upset. It’s not that I want this to happen, but I foresee it happening. And I’ll eat my own words if team Canada prevails.

 

[Gold Standard]

There’s really a number of things that make me think the USA will prevail over Canada. One main one as you alluded is goaltending. The second thing is goal scoring. As of right now, 6 of the top 10 nhl goal scorers are American. I lived through Nagano and Turin olympics, I’ve seen it happen. And I don’t know how old you are, but for the people in there 20’s who only have 2010, 2014 and the World Cup in 2016 to experience, things go south to.
A 34 yr old Roy and a 34 yr old brodeur we’re on teams that didn’t medal, is 34 yr old carey mr. overrated price really going to achieve something Roy and brodeur couldn’t? This team Canada is ripe for the upset. It’s not that I want this to happen, but I foresee it happening. And I’ll eat my own words if team Canada prevails.

It's a toss up at this point. I think the two best teams are Canada and the U.S., so I won't be too broken up if we lose this one...crapolla happens. 2026 Team Canada looks unbeatable.

 

[JackSlater]

There’s really a number of things that make me think the USA will prevail over Canada. One main one as you alluded is goaltending. The second thing is goal scoring. As of right now, 6 of the top 10 nhl goal scorers are American. I lived through Nagano and Turin olympics, I’ve seen it happen. And I don’t know how old you are, but for the people in there 20’s who only have 2010, 2014 and the World Cup in 2016 to experience, things go south to.
A 34 yr old Roy and a 34 yr old brodeur we’re on teams that didn’t medal, is 34 yr old carey mr. overrated price really going to achieve something Roy and brodeur couldn’t? This team Canada is ripe for the upset. It’s not that I want this to happen, but I foresee it happening. And I’ll eat my own words if team Canada prevails.

Canada is not going to lose because Price happens to be 34. Canada might lose because another teams plays better or due to bad bounces or due to plain old randomness, but not some trivia that the starting goaltenders in 1998 and 2006, who played well, happened to be 34.

 

[gotyournose]

There’s really a number of things that make me think the USA will prevail over Canada. One main one as you alluded is goaltending. The second thing is goal scoring. As of right now, 6 of the top 10 nhl goal scorers are American. I lived through Nagano and Turin olympics, I’ve seen it happen. And I don’t know how old you are, but for the people in there 20’s who only have 2010, 2014 and the World Cup in 2016 to experience, things go south to.
A 34 yr old Roy and a 34 yr old brodeur we’re on teams that didn’t medal, is 34 yr old carey mr. overrated price really going to achieve something Roy and brodeur couldn’t? This team Canada is ripe for the upset. It’s not that I want this to happen, but I foresee it happening. And I’ll eat my own words if team Canada prevails.

Canada hasn’t had a player like McDavid since Gretzky and Lemieux in Canada Cup 87. Lindros never really dominated and took over the 98 Olympics. Crosby took till the gold medal game in 2010 and 14 to produce when it mattered the most. Add in Mackinnon, Stamkos, Point, Tavares, Marner, Barzal (maybe), Huberdeau, Marchand, Crosby, Bergeron etc. The defence will be good. Barry Trotz knows what he’s doing and what must be done. The goaltending is a concern. However they said the same thing before the 2014 Olympics. If they push the tempo and play smart defensive hockey they will win.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Nah, I am still taking Canada and probably Russia over them, they’re better in goal but apart from that Canada doesn’t have any defensemen they have to hide 5v5 (à la Seth Jones, Carlson, Quinn Hughes) and the forward group is very good but lacks the elite Selke options that Canada has, and slightly less star power in the top 6

You don't have to "hide" any of the defensemen you mention 5on5. That said if you want to fully utilize their offensive talent pair each with a safety valve like Fox, McAvoy, Slavin, or McDonagh.

Honestly, I think Canada is going to have to do something similar with their group. A lot of good offensive d-men that are average in their own zone.

 

[86Habs]

Pelech is Canada’s best defensive LHD. He has to make it

I would have Pelech on my team, but then again I'm not Doug Armstrong and I get the sense that the left side is still somewhat up in the air. I take comfort in the fact that Armstrong was on the management team in 2014 that selected Vlasic, Hamhuis and Bouwmeester down the left side (in addition to Keith, of course), and I think Pelech would fit in well with a group like that.

Aside from Pietrangelo, who has already been named to the team (prematurely, imo), I think only Makar is a 100% lock. Theodore is probably a near-lock, as is Doughty. From there, Ekblad has to be there I think; he's having too good of a season to pass up and has a solid pedigree with Hockey Canada. That's five defencemen, of which only one (Theodore) is a LHS. So Armstrong (with Cooper's input presumably) needs to decide whether he is fine moving guys like Pietrangelo (who moved to the left side at the 2016 World Cup) or Ekblad over to the left side, or if he wants to maintain some sort of balance. He also needs to decide if he wants to bring along Toews and Weegar to form natural pairings. If he does, Pelech (and Rielly, and Nurse) may find themselves without a spot on the team, or on the team but in the press box.

I'm comfortable with our top 5, but get less comfortable as we move down our depth chart as guys like Pelech, Weegar and Toews don't necessarily have extensive international resumes like our defence group in 2014 did. Weegar also hasn't been out of the first round of the playoffs. On that basis, Pelech, Toews and Rielly may have an edge. Something like this would work, as it would maintain a LHS/RHS balance, but maintains a strong top 6 with Pelech (strong defensive defenceman) and Rielly (good all-around defenceman) as spares.

Theodore / Doughty
Toews / Makar
Pietrangelo / Ekblad
Pelech, Rielly

 

[JimmyApples]

I would have Pelech on my team, but then again I'm not Doug Armstrong and I get the sense that the left side is still somewhat up in the air. I take comfort in the fact that Armstrong was on the management team in 2014 that selected Vlasic, Hamhuis and Bouwmeester down the left side (in addition to Keith, of course), and I think Pelech would fit in well with a group like that.

Aside from Pietrangelo, who has already been named to the team (prematurely, imo), I think only Makar is a 100% lock. Theodore is probably a near-lock, as is Doughty. From there, Ekblad has to be there I think; he's having too good of a season to pass up and has a solid pedigree with Hockey Canada. That's five defencemen, of which only one (Theodore) is a LHS. So Armstrong (with Cooper's input presumably) needs to decide whether he is fine moving guys like Pietrangelo (who moved to the left side at the 2016 World Cup) or Ekblad over to the left side, or if he wants to maintain some sort of balance. He also needs to decide if he wants to bring along Toews and Weegar to form natural pairings. If he does, Pelech (and Rielly, and Nurse) may find themselves without a spot on the team, or on the team but in the press box.

I'm comfortable with our top 5, but get less comfortable as we move down our depth chart as guys like Pelech, Weegar and Toews don't necessarily have extensive international resumes like our defence group in 2014 did. Weegar also hasn't been out of the first round of the playoffs. On that basis, Pelech, Toews and Rielly may have an edge. Something like this would work, as it would maintain a LHS/RHS balance, but maintains a strong top 6 with Pelech (strong defensive defenceman) and Rielly (good all-around defenceman) as spares.

Theodore / Doughty
Toews / Makar
Pietrangelo / Ekblad
Pelech, Rielly

Did you forget Chabot exists? He was likely making the team going into the season, and his play has almost made him a lock.

 

[NyQuil]

Did you forget Chabot exists? He was likely making the team going into the season, and his play has almost made him a lock.

His team sucks so his stock is dropping.

 

[86Habs]

Did you forget Chabot exists? He was likely making the team going into the season, and his play has almost made him a lock.

No, I didn't forget he exists. I don't think he's at a level where he's making the team above the players I mentioned (this is coming from someone that lives in Ottawa and watches most Sens games). I could be wrong of course. But Hockey Canada has a tendency to be conservative with their defense selections, especially when filling out the bottom part of their depth chart. Maybe he makes it above Toews, Rielly or Pelech, but I like Rielly's experience and he's playing good hockey this year, and Pelech is a low-risk, elite defensive defenceman, and Toews has the benefit of playing with Makar. I don't think he makes it above any of Pietrangelo, Doughty, Ekblad, Theodore or Makar.

 

[Zybalto]

5v5 score adjusted numbers for Chabot this year:

CF%: 48.64 (+8.46 REL)
xGF%: 49.93 (+7.09 REL)
GF%: 56.67 (+24.24 REL)

Looks like an elite dman on a bad team.

 

[86Habs]

5v5 score adjusted numbers for Chabot this year:

CF%: 48.64 (+8.46 REL)
xGF%: 49.93 (+7.09 REL)
GF%: 56.67 (+24.24 REL)

Looks like an elite dman on a bad team.

Who is replacing on the team and why?

 

[JackSlater]

I think who Canada selects/doesn't select at forward and on defense makes little difference to their chances of winning as much as who ends up being the goalie for Canada.

The five or six forwards all in contention for the last 2 or 3 spots, or the 4 or 5 defensemen all in contention for the last 2 or 3 spots, are pretty much interchangeable. I may like one or two more than the others, but none are going to make or break a gold medal, IMO.

The goaltending uncertainty, however ... yeah, I'm just not all that excited about the names available.

I'm not so sure regarding the interchangeability of those guys. Even in 2010 Toews started as 13th forward and ended up named the tournament's best forward. Tonelli was once the MVP of a Canada Cup. People are still talking about how Canada filled out the depth spots in 2006. Obviously it doesn't always go that way but Canada's biggest advantage is that the competition for those depth spots is way more harsh than it is anywhere else. Getting the right players is important even if we can't know how a non-selected player would perform.

Canada's goaltending is something that should be looked into regardless of what happens in this or any other tournament. There is no reason that Canada should be clearly behind other countries in goaltending, simple as that. Being able to put out a solid goaltender for the WJC most years and produce guys who can flash elite play n the NHL every few years isn't enough.

 

[Zybalto]

Who is replacing on the team and why?

Seeing as no LHD have even made the team, he's not replacing anyone. He's just an option and a very strong one.

I wouldnt object to seeing him on the 3rd pairing. Imagine him being paired with say, another guy not getting a huge amount of love, Hamilton. Crazy tough 2-way beast pairing and an absolute handful to contain for a 3rd pairing. The brass is going to have some tough decisions to make here for sure.

 

[86Habs]

Seeing as no LHD have even made the team, he's not replacing anyone. He's just an option and a very strong one.

I wouldnt object to seeing him on the 3rd pairing. Imagine him being paired with say, another guy not getting a huge amount of love, Hamilton. Crazy tough 2-way beast pairing and an absolute handful to contain for a 3rd pairing. The brass is going to have some tough decisions to make here for sure.

I meant replacing on the defence group I proposed earlier. Honestly, I wouldn't object to Chabot being selected for the team either (or Hamilton). I like his game, and can see him being a centerpiece for us in the future. I just think there are a few slightly better options that will make it over him this time around, considering HC's tendency to lean towards more experienced defencemen towards the bottom of the depth chart.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Seeing as no LHD have even made the team, he's not replacing anyone. He's just an option and a very strong one.

I wouldnt object to seeing him on the 3rd pairing. Imagine him being paired with say, another guy not getting a huge amount of love, Hamilton. Crazy tough 2-way beast pairing and an absolute handful to contain for a 3rd pairing. The brass is going to have some tough decisions to make here for sure.

I've never seen either Hamilton or Chabot described as "crazy tough two-way beasts."

 

[Mathieukferland]

I've never seen either Hamilton or Chabot described as "crazy tough two-way beasts."

Hamilton is soft in front of his net and loses puck battles and would not be in my team despite of his offense, Chabot his second season he was a two-way beast but since then both his and his teams fortunes have declined, I wouldn’t have him on my team either

 

[jj cale]

Hamilton is soft in front of his net and loses puck battles and would not be in my team despite of his offense, Chabot his second season he was a two-way beast but since then both his and his teams fortunes have declined, I wouldn’t have him on my team either

I'm with you on Hamilton all the way, he's not a guy we need, he is way too soft . Chabot I am fine with, he can play good defense and think he will be just fine on a very good team.

 

[Zybalto]

I think Hamilton is pretty underrated around here.

Larger sample look at the best dmen in the NHL since the start of the 2019 season:

5v5 ranking, minimum 2000 minutes played, 108 dmen total:

xGF%:
1. Makar
2. Toews
3. McAvoy
4. Weegar
5. Hamilton
6. Spurgeon
7. Theodore
8. Girard
9. Spurgeon
10. Hedman

xGF% REL:
1. Fox
2. DeMelo
3. Toews
4. McAvoy
5. Weegar
6. Hamilton
7. Spurgeon
8. Josi
9. Makar
10. Hughes

GF%:
1. Cole
2. Hamilton
3. Fox
4. Makar
5. Graves
6. Weegar
7. Lindgren
8. Brodie
9. McAvoy
10. Ekblad

GF% REL:
1. Fox
2. Hamilton
3. Fowler
4. Lindgren
5. Ekblad
6. Roy
7. Weegar
8. Giordano
9. Brodie
10. Theodore


He's a two-way beast in the sense that he's dominant in the stats that single out two-way beasts. The ice tilts hard whenever he is on the ice. Not many players appear on all 4 top ten lists.

 

[jj cale]

I think Hamilton is pretty underrated around here.

Larger sample look at the best dmen in the NHL since the start of the 2019 season:

5v5 ranking, minimum 2000 minutes played, 108 dmen total:

xGF%:
1. Makar
2. Toews
3. McAvoy
4. Weegar
5. Hamilton
6. Spurgeon
7. Theodore
8. Girard
9. Spurgeon
10. Hedman

xGF% REL:
1. Fox
2. DeMelo
3. Toews
4. McAvoy
5. Weegar
6. Hamilton
7. Spurgeon
8. Josi
9. Makar
10. Hughes

GF%:
1. Cole
2. Hamilton
3. Fox
4. Makar
5. Graves
6. Weegar
7. Lindgren
8. Brodie
9. McAvoy
10. Ekblad

GF% REL:
1. Fox
2. Hamilton
3. Fowler
4. Lindgren
5. Ekblad
6. Roy
7. Weegar
8. Giordano
9. Brodie
10. Theodore


He's a two-way beast in the sense that he's dominant in the stats that single out two-way beasts. The ice tilts hard whenever he is on the ice. Not many players appear on all 4 top ten lists.

I just find he melts under a hard forecheck in big stakes situations, don't like his reactions under pressure at all, never have.

And we are going to be seeing plenty of that in this tournament.

 

[jaric1862]

I don't see why so many people consider Theodore a lock? He should be in the same conversation with every single other LD up for debate (Toews, Pelech, Rielly, Weegar,Nurse, etc). Heres what I think at the moment.


Huberdeau-McDavid-MacKinnon
Marchand-Crosby-Bergeron
O'Reilly-Point-Stamkos
Tavares-Scheifele-Marner
Couturier-Stone

Theodore-Pieterangelo
Toews-Makar
Nurse-Ekblad
Rielly-Doughty

Price
Binnington
Fleury