Confirmed Signing with Link: [TBL] Alex Killorn (7 years $4.45M AAV)

[The Madrigal]

But if you look what TB fans are saying, is that if Killorn plays in the top 6, they expect the points to go up. And again, if he was a 45 point guy, he is right on par with the 10pts per million. So to hope off a 5 point increase is reasonable.

I don't care what TB fans are saying. Of course they are going to say it's a good deal. It's just like any other contract that is questionable, fans will always grasp at straws and even ignore things trying to justify it. I'm a Leafs fan, I know this game all too well.

Anyway, Killorn is a 15 goal/40 point player. He is not a 20 goal/45 point player. Could he become that, maybe. He's about to turn 27, chances are just as good that this is the player he is, rather than this idea that he will suddenly consistently become a more productive player.

Also, he got a 7 year term. He's a tweener 2nd/3rd liner. Players like that simply do not get 7 year terms. For him to have gotten that many years the AAV should have been a bargain, not fair market value or in this case slightly above the players current production level and overall importance.

You are a Flyers fan, look no further than Sean Couturier. Couturier's offensive production is very similar to Killorn's. Killorn is a good two-way winger, Couturier is darn close to being a selke level center. Killorn is about to turn 27, Couturier is only 23. Please explain to me why a player like Killorn should be getting two additional years of term and a slightly higher AAV than Couturier.

Certain teams/GM's can simply do no wrong in the eyes of fans and Yzerman is one of them, but he has certainly made his share of mistakes. Again, as a Flyers fan, you got a comparable defenseman to Coburn in Radko Gudas and a 1st and 3rd round pick for him. Yzerman does not wrong though.

 

[Everblades13]

I don't necessarily like the deal, but it isn't horrible, because I don't think this deal changes much of anything. If you think the Lightning were going to or are going to now lose Kucherov, then you are crazy.

They'll sign Kuch, Namestnikov and Nesterov then probably lose Bishop and Val.

 

[mariolemieux66]

He's being sarcastic I think

I don't think he was.

 

[Lebowski]

I like Killorn, but that's a lot of term for a guy like that. The money isn't too bad though.

 

[Everblades13]

I don't care what TB fans are saying. Of course they are going to say it's a good deal. It's just like any other contract that is questionable, fans will always grasp at straws and even ignore things trying to justify it. I'm a Leafs fan, I know this game all too well.

Anyway, Killorn is a 15 goal/40 point player. He is not a 20 goal/45 point player. Could he become that, maybe. He's about to turn 27, chances are just as good that this is the player he is, rather than this idea that he will suddenly consistently become a more productive player.

Also, he got a 7 year term. He's a tweener 2nd/3rd liner. Players like that simply do not get 7 year terms. For him to have gotten that many years the AAV should have been a bargain, not fair market value or in this case slightly above the players current production level and overall importance.

You are a Flyers fan, look no further than Sean Couturier. Couturier's offensive production is very similar to Killorn's. Killorn is a good two-way winger, Couturier is darn close to being a selke level center. Killorn is about to turn 27, Couturier is only 23. Please explain to me why a player like Killorn should be getting two additional years of term and a slightly higher AAV than Couturier.

Certain teams/GM's can simply do no wrong in the eyes of fans and Yzerman is one of them, but he has certainly made his share of mistakes. Again, as a Flyers fan, you got a comparable defenseman to Coburn in Radko Gudas and a 1st and 3rd round pick for him. Yzerman does not wrong though.

I feel like you are confusing not liking the deal with the deal being some sort of crippling and debilitating mistake.

As has been mentioned, he is about 500k overpaid based off the $1 mil every 10 points metric. I think his playoff production makes that a wash, but it's whatever.

The term, that is a legitimate gripe. That is my concern with it, at least. But a 7 year deal doesn't automatically mean he is going to be on the team for 7 years. It is not a great deal, but it is inconsequential for the time being, so it is hard to say that it is horrible. If Killorn is still on the team when he is 34 and he has regressed to a 4th line scrub making 4.5 mil, then it will be a bad deal. Until then it just really doesn't matter.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I don't care what TB fans are saying. Of course they are going to say it's a good deal. It's just like any other contract that is questionable, fans will always grasp at straws and even ignore things trying to justify it. I'm a Leafs fan, I know this game all too well.

Anyway, Killorn is a 15 goal/40 point player. He is not a 20 goal/45 point player. Could he become that, maybe. He's about to turn 27, chances are just as good that this is the player he is, rather than this idea that he will suddenly consistently become a more productive player.

Also, he got a 7 year term. He's a tweener 2nd/3rd liner. Players like that simply do not get 7 year terms. For him to have gotten that many years the AAV should have been a bargain, not fair market value or in this case slightly above the players current production level and overall importance.

You are a Flyers fan, look no further than Sean Couturier. Couturier's offensive production is very similar to Killorn's. Killorn is a good two-way winger, Couturier is darn close to being a selke level center. Killorn is about to turn 27, Couturier is only 23. Please explain to me why a player like Killorn should be getting two additional years of term and a slightly higher AAV than Couturier.

Certain teams/GM's can simply do no wrong in the eyes of fans and Yzerman is one of them, but he has certainly made his share of mistakes. Again, as a Flyers fan, you got a comparable defenseman to Coburn in Radko Gudas and a 1st and 3rd round pick for him. Yzerman does not wrong though.

Didn't he do that as a 3rd liner? TB fans are saying he will have a bigger role next year does it not stand to reason he probably will put up more points?

 

[The Madrigal]

No he isn't good middle six players get paid 4+ million a year now. As the salary cap goes up so do salaries, I mean really all of you saying this is an overpayment. Do you not understand how this works?

The term may be a bit much, but there are multiple ways around that if his contract becomes an anchor, I mean the leafs traded the Clarkson contract for god sakes.

I understand how this works, apparently you don't. Good middle six players get salaries in the 4 million range but they very rarely get 6 or 7 year terms and almost never get the 6 or 7 year term and salary in the 4+ million range. Since he got the 7 year term the AAV should have come at a discounted rate, which it did not.

This is not a black and white issue but you are treating it as such. If the AAV is at 3.75 - 4 million for 7 years the narrative is the term is a bit long but at least they got a slight discount in return.. If the term is 4 years at the current cost the narrative is the salary is a little bit high or just about right but they didn't have to commit too many years. Put the two together though (7 years at nearly 4.5 million) and it makes for a questionable deal, especially when the GM in this case was negotiating against himself with a restricted free agent.

 

[whlscowt]

What a big summer in the state of Florida. Can't help but think all of these longterm deals both teams made have have the potential to really build up hockey in the sunbelt or completely destroy it. I really feel like Yzerman and Rowe are playing with fire with both money (and especially) term. Hopefully for the state (love how grassroots hockey has really taken off) things go well.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

Money is fine

Term is ludicrous

 

[Minnesota]

Initial reaction... Much too long.

We'll see if Killorn can elevate his game and stay consistent until he's 33. I have my doubts.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I understand how this works, apparently you don't. Good middle six players get salaries in the 4 million range but they very rarely get 6 or 7 year terms and almost never get the 6 or 7 year term and salary in the 4+ million range. Since he got the 7 year term the AAV should have come at a discounted rate, which it did not.

This is not a black and white issue but you are treating it as such. If the AAV is at 3.75 - 4 million for 7 years the narrative is the term is a bit long but at least they got a slight discount in return.. If the term is 4 years at the current cost the narrative is the salary is a little bit high or just about right but they didn't have to commit too many years. Put the two together though (7 years at nearly 4.5 million) and it makes for a questionable deal, especially when the GM in this case was negotiating against himself with a restricted free agent.

So even if Killorn starts to regress, which there is no proof of really. Can they not move the contract? Buy him out? Will the salary cap not continue to go up?

 

[Hally BlackWood]

good news dallas bishops price has probably went down. Not as many teams need a goalie and I think Tampa is going to have to move him at this point.

 

[The Madrigal]

Didn't he do that as a 3rd liner? TB fans are saying he will have a bigger role next year does it not stand to reason he probably will put up more points?

So, when giving out contracts GM's should just automatically assume that players will become significantly more productive than they already are and pay them as such?

That thought process only makes sense when you are talking about a former first round pick who has yet to hit their prime yet. Then that leap of faith has a lot more merit to it and is much easier to be justified. 27 isn't old, but chances are Killorn is what he is at this point so to try to justify his contract based on the fact that he MIGHT become more productive is just silly. If you don't believe me I can come up with plenty of examples of similar situations and contracts which bit teams in the butt. It's a dangerous thought process and one that is often used by fans as excuses to justify what they know is a questionable contract.

 

[Everblades13]

So even if Killorn starts to regress, which there is no proof of really. Can they not move the contract? Buy him out? Will the salary cap not continue to go up?

You're making too much sense.

 

[Mad Brills*]

Only reason why they're in cap hell is because filppula and callahan's contracts

 

[The Madrigal]

So even if Killorn starts to regress, which there is no proof of really.

What does regressing have to do with this? He isn't worth the combination of term and AAVhe got as the player he is right now and I never said anything about him regressing.

Can they not move the contract? Buy him out?

That remains to be seen. The Flyers had to give Scott Hartnell away two years ago and Columbus tried and couldn't move him this summer. Check his production and salary.

Will the salary cap not continue to go up?

So because the cap is likely to go up GM's should just be liberal with the contracts they give out when they bid against themselves with their own restricted free agents? That is a dangerous line of thinking which has gotten several GM's in trouble in the past.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

So, when giving out contracts GM's should just automatically assume that players will become significantly more productive than they already are and pay them as such?

That thought process only makes sense when you are talking about a former first round pick who has yet to hit their prime yet. Then that leap of faith has a lot more merit to it and is much easier to be justified. 27 isn't old, but chances are Killorn is what he is at this point so to try to justify his contract based on the fact that he MIGHT become more productive is just silly. If you don't believe me I can come up with plenty of examples of similar situations and contracts which bit teams in the butt. It's a dangerous thought process and one that is often used by fans as excuses to justify what they know is a questionable contract.

So yah just totally ignore the whole bigger role thing, once again the contract is fair value right now, as in he is being paid what he deserves as a middle sixer. Once again if it becomes an anchor can they not trade/buy out/ bury his contract?

 

[CupsOverCash]

I think it will be a steal after he gets some regular top 6 time. He was playing all over the lines the last few seasons because he is versatile. But his clutch play has placed him right into the top six with the triplets or Stamkos and Drouin. He's a smart player who scores clutch goals in big games. When you account all of that 4.5 is about right for him.

 

[LordNeverLose]

I don't like this decision by GMSY.

Yeah I think it's a little too much term/AAV but that's not the problem, Killorn is a fine player.

The problem IMO is a team like TB needs to realize it's core and put all its cap into them and then rotate cheap depth that you dump if they get too expensive. That kinda money and term to a guy who's at best TB's 6th most valuable forward is concerning. It's reminiscent of the problem with the Kruger contract. Sure, Killorn's better than Kruger, but the idea of tying up big amounts in guys who aren't key players is concerning.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

What does regressing have to do with this? He isn't worth the combination of term and AAVhe got as the player he is right now and I never said anything about him regressing.

That remains to be seen. The Flyers had to give Scott Hartnell away two years ago and Columbus tried and couldn't move him this summer. Check his production and salary.

So because the cap is likely to go up GM's should just be liberal with the contracts they give out when they bid against themselves with their own restricted free agents? That is a dangerous line of thinking which has gotten several GM's in trouble in the past.

If he is a 40 point player for the next 7 years and a wicked playoff guy, then how is 4.5 million too much? Especially in 7 years when the cap has gone way up?


As money goes up people get paid more, isn't that basic economics?

 

[TLEH]

Stamkos drouin kucherov Johnson palat ... But Killorn in top6?i don't think so

 

[VinikToWinIt]

I don't care what TB fans are saying. Of course they are going to say it's a good deal. It's just like any other contract that is questionable, fans will always grasp at straws and even ignore things trying to justify it. I'm a Leafs fan, I know this game all too well.

Anyway, Killorn is a 15 goal/40 point player. He is not a 20 goal/45 point player. Could he become that, maybe. He's about to turn 27, chances are just as good that this is the player he is, rather than this idea that he will suddenly consistently become a more productive player.

Also, he got a 7 year term. He's a tweener 2nd/3rd liner. Players like that simply do not get 7 year terms. For him to have gotten that many years the AAV should have been a bargain, not fair market value or in this case slightly above the players current production level and overall importance.

You are a Flyers fan, look no further than Sean Couturier. Couturier's offensive production is very similar to Killorn's. Killorn is a good two-way winger, Couturier is darn close to being a selke level center. Killorn is about to turn 27, Couturier is only 23. Please explain to me why a player like Killorn should be getting two additional years of term and a slightly higher AAV than Couturier.

Certain teams/GM's can simply do no wrong in the eyes of fans and Yzerman is one of them, but he has certainly made his share of mistakes. Again, as a Flyers fan, you got a comparable defenseman to Coburn in Radko Gudas and a 1st and 3rd round pick for him. Yzerman does not wrong though.

Generalizing is fun. It's pretty well known that the Gudas trade was not good value.

 

[Pandaman11]

Let's start the guessing: which big names will be out of Tampa by 2017?

I say Bishop and Palat.

 

[MikeK]

I don't like this contract. A case can be made for the AAV for sure. But that term is disgusting.

 

[Bourdon]

Didn't he do that as a 3rd liner? TB fans are saying he will have a bigger role next year does it not stand to reason he probably will put up more points?

He already plays on the top 6. He plays close to 17 minutes a game. His three most common line combinations were Johnson-Kucherov, Stamkos-Callahan, and Filppula-Stamkos.