Taylor Hall For Adam Larsson V | 4,000+ Posts and Counting!

[iCanada]

Not sure if you are saying that Fourier is doing that or is this just a general statement to the board? I'f hope it is the latter. I haven't been following too many posts closely enough to determine your position here.

No I just mean more in general.

I don't want guys to run him out of town. Not fair to the player.

 

[rrc1967]

We needed a pp qb offensive dman AND an all situations shut down stud.

We are being hopeful that Larsson is maybe one of those.

That's not near good enough to trade Hall for.

I doubt a PP QB is the most important thing necessary, considering that the PP wasn't entirely enept and should do better all by it's lonesome with a full year of McDavid.

what was pretty inept was keeping the puck out of the defensive zone and own net.

 

[Spawn]

The Devils last year were significantly worse at creating offense than the Oilers, who also ran through dry spells. For half the season the Devils relied on the likes of Reid Boucher, Joe Blandisi and Sergei Kalinin to create offense. Lee Stempniak was their 4th best scorer! Any 'true goal scorers' in there?

Where did I say the Devils were any good offensively? I acknowledged they sucked at scoring. But so did the Oilers, who were the 26th ranked team in the league in goals for.

The point I was trying to make is you can't discount Larsson's defensive stats just because he played for Jersey, then at the same time highlight his poor offensive numbers which obviously are going to be effected by playing for Jersey.

Taylor Hall isn't a natural goal scorer. He's more of a playmaker and we have a lot of those. Lucic will score more goals than Hall ever has as an oiler. Puzzling how some still believe that we are a talentless team without Hall. We're still a skilled team, we just have a few more versatile players now to help balance things out.

You can argue the value of the return for Hall and that is fair, but to blindly dismiss the qualities that both Lucic and Larsson bring is severely selling them short.

Last 6 seasons (Hall's entire career) Hall has scored 132 goals in 381. That same time frame Lucic has 125 goals in 448 games. Hall might not be a pure goal scorer, but he's scored goals at a better rate than Lucic every season of his career outside of his rookie year which was the only time Lucic has hit 30 goals. Not to mention that Lucic has spent the bulk of his career glued to the hip of either Krejci in Boston, or Kopitar in LA this year. Two playmaking centerman who are much better than who Hall has played with the majority of his career.

I'm curious how I'm blindly dismissing either of Lucic or Larsson's qualities? I didn't even bring Lucic up. I didn't even bring Hall up for that matter. . I pointed out that Larsson is going from a team that couldn't score to a team... that couldn't score and I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that just because he's out of New Jersey he's going to start putting up 30-40 points.

The Oilers are not a team where a lot of players come to and all of a sudden start producing more. Connor McDavid is one player who will float players point totals, but one player can only influence so many around him.

 

[rrc1967]

Not to mention that Lucic has spent the bulk of his career glued to the hip of either Krejci in Boston, or Kopitar in LA this year.

weird.

considering that 60% of the time he was on a line with Jeff Carter and Tyler Toffoli during even strength.

I guess you meant he sat beside him on the bench?

and the year prior, the majority of his ES 5 on 5 was with Pastranak and Spooner.

Same thing there I guess?

then on top of that .. those teams were far more defensively responsible and the players expected to be so.

So while Lucic may not net you as many goals as Hall. it's almost a laughable matter of so what? the delta goal difference will be in generating more time and space for other players on the ice, not to mention the leadership of getting the team to play better and with more determination.

 

[belair]

Where did I say the Devils were any good offensively? I acknowledged they sucked at scoring. But so did the Oilers, who were the 26th ranked team in the league in goals for.

I didn't say you did. I was saying that the two teams were not in the same ballpark when it came to the offense creating goals. The Devils were awful last year.

Last 6 seasons (Hall's entire career) Hall has scored 132 goals in 381. That same time frame Lucic has 125 goals in 448 games. Hall might not be a pure goal scorer, but he's scored goals at a better rate than Lucic every season of his career outside of his rookie year which was the only time Lucic has hit 30 goals. Not to mention that Lucic has spent the bulk of his career glued to the hip of either Krejci in Boston, or Kopitar in LA this year. Two playmaking centerman who are much better than who Hall has played with the majority of his career.

I'm curious how I'm blindly dismissing either of Lucic or Larsson's qualities? I didn't even bring Lucic up. I didn't even bring Hall up for that matter. . I pointed out that Larsson is going from a team that couldn't score to a team... that couldn't score and I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that just because he's out of New Jersey he's going to start putting up 30-40 points.

The Oilers are not a team where a lot of players come to and all of a sudden start producing more. Connor McDavid is one player who will float players point totals, but one player can only influence so many around him.

He's also moving out of a coaching system that deployed him in the defensive zone 70% of the time and gave him very little PP time. He still managed as many points as Justin Schultz last season regardless. Are you telling me that if McLellan uses him on the PP and deploys him closer to 50/50, you don't think those offensive numbers will dramatically improve?

 

[rrc1967]

He's also moving out of a coaching system that deployed him in the defensive zone 70% of the time and gave him very little PP time. He still managed as many points as Justin Schultz last season regardless. Are you telling me that if McLellan uses him on the PP and deploys him closer to 50/50, you don't think those offensive numbers will dramatically improve?

yeah I don't get people ignoring that either.

even with a relatively equal zone starts, and increased time on the power play, not to mention he has an efficient breakout pass, it's not a stretch to assume 30 points is highly possible.

 

[Vanqu1sh]

There's ALOT out there. doesn't require much of a mind reader to listen to McLellan through season to realize that major heart and soul changes and leadership changes was going to happen and fast.

Thinking that the team and the leadership core wasn't going to change ... given the comments through the season borders on complete lunacy.


what I think is crazy is that some feel that the core did not need to change to change the leadership of this team.

While player for player it's hard to argue that the oilers won, however when considering the team, and where it has to go .. and what had to change, it's hard to suggest that they lost as bad as some are making it out to be.

Also...My own personal thoughts on some of the posts in here. IMO unless you're potting 30+ goals regularly, show leadership and compete consistently .. you're not a franchise winger.

This x10. A group that has been alright with losing for 6 years is all of a sudden going to flip the switch. Bringing in Mcdavid to lead a team with an established core with poor leadership doesn't do it on it's own. This mixes up the locker-room for sure. Edmonton has been bad for so long that individual players with shiny point totals are more important than winning. All about da prospects!

Hall is comparable to Kessel who was traded for less.

 

[Vanqu1sh]

yeah I don't get people ignoring that either.

even with a relatively equal zone starts, and increased time on the power play, not to mention he has an efficient breakout pass, it's not a stretch to assume 30 points is highly possible.

I could see 30 points for him, but I'm not getting my hopes up too high about his offence. He's never had more than 3 goals in a year and no one has ever said great things about his shot or offensive instincts. He's going to get a lot of minutes with a lot of good players and he'll get some points for that, but I'm not expecting him to wow me in the offensive zone with his play.

 

[oobga]

This x10. A group that has been alright with losing for 6 years is all of a sudden going to flip the switch. Bringing in Mcdavid to lead a team with an established core with poor leadership doesn't do it on it's own. This mixes up the locker-room for sure. Edmonton has been bad for so long that individual players with shiny point totals are more important than winning. All about da prospects!

Hall is comparable to Kessel who was traded for less.

The Hall and Kessel comparisons are interesting. I totally get that production wise they are comparable, 2 guys that were able to put up points consistently on bad teams, but the leadership piece I think is very different.

With Kessel, you have a guy that never wants to be in the spotlight, he is happy to take a back seat from a leadership role and be a complimentary guy minding his own business. What caused all the issues with him in TO is how the org and media all tried to make him the face of the team and he just didn't want it.

Hall is different, he wants to be the face of the team, he wants to be the guy leading the charge. Unfortunately, he may not have the right personality type to be someone that players really want to rally behind. He gives 100% individually on the ice for sure, which is great and something any leader needs to do, but he just never was able to resonate with the group and stand out as the leader the players, coaches or management wanted. That is a situation that can be an issue in a different way, someone that feels he should be "the guy" but the group doesn't want it, and then you throw in McDavid who is on his way to being the obvious leader, and it complicates things further.

Just my 2c. Not saying Hall is a bad guy, but some people just aren't meant to be leaders. And the people that aren't meant to be leaders, some know it and hang back, and some still keep trying to be and it can be more damaging than helpful.

 

[nabob]

So Lucic has 7 less goals than Hall during the last 6 seasons? Add in all the other intangibles that Lucic adds and it seems like a pretty sly move by Chia. Didn't realize their goal scoring totals were that close.

 

[Fourier]

Maybe not. One is a forward, one is a defenseman. Hopefully it'll be like Schneider-Horvat where Schneider is better and will probably have a better career in a vacuum, but both teams are satisfied because both got a really good young player in the end. I think our situation is similar here. I don't think many Canucks fans glare at Horvat every time he makes a mistake and thinks "man, if only Schneider was still here..." they've moved on.

With the wealth of exciting players on our team (especially McDavid!), people will move on from Hall pretty quickly IMO.

There is a difference between saying that he will be tied to Hall and saying that he will be glared at no matter what. Six years after the draft Seguin vs Hall was still being talked about.

This trade is not the same as Schneider for Horvat. Hall was the face of this team for five years. This is also a hockey mad market with a long memory. If Larsson plays well and the team wins he will likely become a fan favourite even though he will still be tied to Hall.

 

[Vanqu1sh]

The Hall and Kessel comparisons are interesting. I totally get that production wise they are comparable, 2 guys that were able to put up points consistently on bad teams, but the leadership piece I think is very different.

With Kessel, you have a guy that never wants to be in the spotlight, he is happy to take a back seat from a leadership role and be a complimentary guy minding his own business. What caused all the issues with him in TO is how the org and media all tried to make him the face of the team and he just didn't want it.

Hall is different, he wants to be the face of the team, he wants to be the guy leading the charge. Unfortunately, he may not have the right personality type to be someone that players really want to rally behind. He gives 100% individually on the ice for sure, which is great and something any leader needs to do, but he just never was able to resonate with the group and stand out as the leader the players, coaches or management wanted. That is a situation that can be an issue in a different way, someone that feels he should be "the guy" but the group doesn't want it, and then you throw in McDavid who is on his way to being the obvious leader, and it complicates things further.

Just my 2c. Not saying Hall is a bad guy, but some people just aren't meant to be leaders. And the people that aren't meant to be leaders, some know it and hang back, and some still keep trying to be and it can be more damaging than helpful.

I'm not disagreeing with any of this, but I just meant to make a general comparison of their value as hockey players. I think it's a pretty fair comparison intangibles notwithstanding.

 

[Soundwave]

There is a difference between saying that he will be tied to Hall and saying that He will be glared at no matter what. Six years after the draft Seguin vs Hall was still being talked about.

This trade is not the same as Schneider for Horvat. Hall was the face of this team for five years. This is also a hockey mad market with a long memory. If Larsson plays well and the team wins he will likely become a fan favourite even though he will still be tied to Hall.

It probably will help that Larsson is the best defenceman we've had here in like 7 years.

Yeah it hurts to see Hall go, but lets be honest since McDavid got here, it's all about him from here on out.

I think Hall kinda struggled with that too to be honest, once Connor came back he didn't play well at all, Connor came back and had that crazy goal versus Columbus and I dunno I think Hall felt like suddenly he wasn't that "guy" any more.

 

[Vanqu1sh]

It probably will help that Larsson is the best defenceman we've had here in like 7 years.

Yeah it hurts to see Hall go, but lets be honest since McDavid got here, it's all about him from here on out.

I think Hall kinda struggled with that too to be honest, once Connor came back he didn't play well at all, Connor came back and had that crazy goal versus Columbus and I dunno I think Hall felt like suddenly he wasn't that "guy" any more.

booooooom, there goes the ego. I remember watching that and thinking how that play was straight-up inspiring.

 

[oobga]

I'm not disagreeing with any of this, but I just meant to make a general comparison of their value as hockey players. I think it's a pretty fair comparison intangibles notwithstanding.

Yeah, totally agree with you, they are very similar from the view of their on ice production.

I really wonder how many Leafs fans that celebrated Kessel being traded have been quick to condemn the Oilers about trading Hall

Kessel, lazy fat bum that can't lead! Hall, super godly amazing player that the Oilers are total idiots for trading! Both basically the same player on paper except Kessel is arguably more productive and durable and carried crappier players on his back in TO.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

weird.

considering that 60% of the time he was on a line with Jeff Carter and Tyler Toffoli during even strength.

I guess you meant he sat beside him on the bench?

and the year prior, the majority of his ES 5 on 5 was with Pastranak and Spooner.

Same thing there I guess?

then on top of that .. those teams were far more defensively responsible and the players expected to be so.

So while Lucic may not net you as many goals as Hall. it's almost a laughable matter of so what? the delta goal difference will be in generating more time and space for other players on the ice, not to mention the leadership of getting the team to play better and with more determination.

The types of goals that he'll be scoring are the types of goals that we've been lacking. In front of the net, in the slot and probably just as important he'll be screening the goalie which buys Connor an extra split second to take a goalie by surprise.

 

[Philly85*]

I actually agree that the Subban trade makes you better for next year. What I don't believe is that it makes you better long term. Nor do I think that adding Subban at the expense of depth gets you much further than a playoff contender. And because of Subban`s contract you are not going to be able to fill new or existing holes. You have also gutted the organizational depth so really the only way the team improves from what it would be is via McDavid and the hope that one of Davidson, Nurse or Reinhart takes a big step forward sooner than later.

In terms of player value in these deals here is another way to look at it. The Oilers could probably get Barrie for Draisaitl and you would effectively have

Larsson and Barrie for Hall and Draisaitl

vs

Subban for Draisiatl, Puljujarvi and Klefbom plus another asset.

If you then use Hall`s cap hit to add Lucic the comparison becomes

Subban vs Larsson and Barrie

Hall vs Lucic, Puljujarvi and Klefbom.

Of course they don`t have Barrie so this is not to say that Chia`s work is done. But they have still have Draisaitl whose value is similar.


Here is my opinion for what it is worth. If he simply plays as well as he did this year in NJ Larsson is better at keeping the puck out of his own net than Subban. How much is debatable, but I would say a fair bit. Subban is unquestionably better offensively. The gap in this part is much bigger than the gap defensively at this time. But the reality is that we don`t know what Larsson`s upside will be.

Larsson`s first pass is excellent. I just watched a replay of a game he played vs the Leaf`s last year to refresh my memory on this. I actually watched the parts where Larsson was on the ice three times. The Leaf`s were a crappy team but they were fairly dogged on the fore check all year and especially in this game. In fact, in this game they pretty much dominated the Devils with the exception of the Larsson-Greene pairing.

What was noticeable was that when that pairing was on the ice Larsson was the guy who consistently moved the puck out of the zone and the guy who did most of the heavy work along the boards. That pair was also an absolute work horse on the pk. But again Larsson seemed like much more of the lead dog than he was the year before when I actually saw him play a fair bit. It`s just one game but it does seem consistent with the comments here:

http://www.allaboutthejersey.com/20...rsey-awards-for-the-2015-16-new-jersey-devils



and

http://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2016/2/12/10974744/new-top-dog-adam-larsson

as well as from many Devil`s fans.

One other interesting note. On the pp NJ used only one defenseman on the first unit. On this night and for much of the year it was Schlemko who is really nothing special. They actually ran the pp through Palmieri who is a right shot. Palmieri drifted from the left point to the left half wall. Schlemko is a LHD which makes sense given where Palmieri sets up. Since I only saw the Devils play a few times this year I can`t confirm that this was their standard pattern over the whole year but judging by TOi it seems it was. Larsson is actually a very good passer and has a big point shot. For the Oilers he makes much more sense as a pp option because he is a RHD and the Oilers run their pp through the right half wall. Just by doing exactly what Schelmko did he should be able to match Schlemko`s 12 pp points playing with McDavid.

Larsson did have 17 ES points and 38 over the last two years. Those are actually decent numbers that put him around 50th for defensemen. This is even better if you consider how poor NJ`s ES offense was. For example it is basically the same rate as a guy like Hamonic while NYI scored almost 50% more goals at ES over that period. (Subban had 66 in the last two years so he is in a different league.) Schlemko for example had 7 ES points so there is no argument that they chose him over Larsson because of skill for the pp. His ES totals since Deboer left are roughly the same as guys like Shattenkirk and Vatanen so it is not like he is a total black hole offensively. Bottom line is 30-40 points is entirely realistic and he could produce more in some years.

Wonderful post, thanks for the contribution. Cheers.

 

[Avenger*]

Easy. Keep Hall. Sign Demers.

-Looks significantly worse on paper
-Repeats the same process of the last ten years of failing to make real changes yet hoping for improvement
-Does nothing to change the culture
-Shows that the team is not serious about moving forward
-No guarentee that Demers would actually sign here
-Continues the problem of redundant forwards and no d-men that can actually play significant hard minutes


Fail.


Get past the fact that this trade wasn't made to "win" a stats comparison inside a vacuum.

 

[Dorian2]

No I just mean more in general.

I don't want guys to run him out of town. Not fair to the player.

That's what I figured. Thanks for clarifying. Hard to recall who's on what side of the ball at this point. Seems like an endless skirmish.

 

[guymez]

There's ALOT out there. doesn't require much of a mind reader to listen to McLellan through season to realize that major heart and soul changes and leadership changes was going to happen and fast.

Thinking that the team and the leadership core wasn't going to change ... given the comments through the season borders on complete lunacy.

I think this may be the article?

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...odd-mclellan-not-seeing-locker-room-ledership

then there's..




what I think is crazy is that some feel that the core did not need to change to change the leadership of this team.

While player for player it's hard to argue that the oilers won, however when considering the team, and where it has to go .. and what had to change, it's hard to suggest that they lost as bad as some are making it out to be.

Also...My own personal thoughts on some of the posts in here. IMO unless you're potting 30+ goals regularly, show leadership and compete consistently .. you're not a franchise winger.

I think there needs to be a more accurate portrayal of positions in this discussion which you haven't provided here. I have not seen one post that suggests that there should not have been a shakeup with the core of this team.
Clearly the team needed a shakeup...a core piece had to go. Thats not the issue at all...the issue is value.

The Oilers didnt just 'not win' this deal...they lost it badly. That is the reality and it has nothing to do with Hall being a 'franchise' winger which is then debated ad nausium. It has to do with the fact that Hall is a top 12 LW in this League. He drives any line that he is on...he is a game changer. You and others can downplay Halls impact as much as you want but Hall has averaged almost .9 ppg through out his NHL career. Try and find 10 other LW's in the game today that have done that for the first 5-6 years of their NHL career. Hall is a special player.

From a player perspective Larsson is a downgrade in value. If you want to include intangibles like leadership (shaking up the core...et al) then you cant factor that into the trade and use it to prop up Larssons value.
They are completely separate...they shouldn't be a part of a Larsson for Hall discussion.

It is possible to acknowledge the fact that the Oilers lost this deal and still like Larsson as a player. It is possible that Larsson may come close to covering the bet on this deal in the next few years.
I hope that happens but I am open to the reality that there is a strong possibility that it may not happen.

So what now....the Oilers lost this deal and we now know that Chia is willing to overpay for dmen he thinks can be difference makers. Its a risk...will it turn out okay...time will tell.

You have no way of confirming that this risk will turn out okay any more than someone who didnt like the deal can confirm that Larsson wont grow into a 2 way #2 dman.

Only time will reveal the outcome of this. Right now it was a bad deal which is relying on hope that things turn out okay.

It shouldn't come as a surprise to you or anybody else that many posters are tired of this formula as it has failed far more often than it has succeeded.

Thats the point that needed to be underscored here IMO.

 

[belair]

That's what I figured. Thanks for clarifying. Hard to recall who's on what side of the ball at this point. Seems like an endless skirmish.

Seems like there's a fair number of 'big name players win championships' people on the Hall end of the spectrum. Keep Hall, trade everything else for Subban.

 

[Dorian2]

Where did I say the Devils were any good offensively? I acknowledged they sucked at scoring. But so did the Oilers, who were the 26th ranked team in the league in goals for.



Last 6 seasons (Hall's entire career) Hall has scored 132 goals in 381. That same time frame Lucic has 125 goals in 448 games. Hall might not be a pure goal scorer, but he's scored goals at a better rate than Lucic every season of his career outside of his rookie year which was the only time Lucic has hit 30 goals. Not to mention that Lucic has spent the bulk of his career glued to the hip of either Krejci in Boston, or Kopitar in LA this year. Two playmaking centerman who are much better than who Hall has played with the majority of his career.

I'm curious how I'm blindly dismissing either of Lucic or Larsson's qualities? I didn't even bring Lucic up. I didn't even bring Hall up for that matter. . I pointed out that Larsson is going from a team that couldn't score to a team... that couldn't score and I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that just because he's out of New Jersey he's going to start putting up 30-40 points.

The Oilers are not a team where a lot of players come to and all of a sudden start producing more. Connor McDavid is one player who will float players point totals, but one player can only influence so many around him.

One factor that might contribute to the idea of Larsson's getting more points here than in New Jersey; and to waylay the Oilers lack of scoring, is kinda 2 fold. I'll try to word this appropriately here...In new Jersey, I've heard (not seen much), that Larsson is a good puck moving defenseman. Jersey didn't seem to have an offensive type of forward last year, though they now do with Hallsy. On the flip side, Larsson has a virtual plethora of offensive players now, and very talented ones at that. I'd imagine that if he did the same thing here as he did last year in Jersey, his point totals would raise. By how much I do not know.

The Oilers were again a crap team with no good puck movers, or some that are really young and learning the skill at NHL level. So my way of thinking is that the forwards here in Edmonton did not have a good outlet passer, which we have missed for waaaaaay too long, and now they apparently do have one. That would suggest that the Oilers GF could raise......again by how much? Who knows. Have to wait and see what happens.

And Larsson's overall Defensive abilities at NHL level seem pretty astute as well. People are calling him a really solid D in the respective zone. So he's both a solid D, which we've been pining for as well, a RHD, and a puck mover. Even though I do not know much about the player, I'd say that all 3 of those traits in Defensive ability supercedes a high scoring Left wing forward, no matter how much we've grown to like Hall.

Then we can add Lucic's traits and leadership skills to that mix. It's a big, bold and IMO, excellent move for this Oiler team.

 

[guymez]

One factor that might contribute to the idea of Larsson's getting more points here than in New Jersey, and to waylay the Oilers lack of scoring, is kinda 2 fold. I'll try to word this appropriately here...In new Jersey, I've heard (not seen much), that Larsson is a good puck moving defenseman. Jersey doesn't seem to have that offensive type of player last year, though they now do with Hallsy. On the flip side, Larsson has a virtual plethora of offensive players, and very talented ones at that. I'd imagine that if he did the same thing here as he did last year in Jersey, his point totals would raise. By how much I do not know.

On the flip side, the Oilers were again a crap team with no good puck movers, or some that are really young and learning the skill at NHL level. So my way of thinking is that the forwards here in Edmonton did not have a good outlet passer, which we have missed for waaaaaay too long, and now they apparently do have one. That would suggest that the Oilers GF could raise......again by how much? Who knows. Have to wait and see what happens.

I think this is entirely valid which is part of the reason why I am not closing the book on Larsson becoming a better offensive dman.

He is also going to get more offensive zone starts which will help as well. The one thing Larsson really needs to improve on though is his shot. His shot simply isnt good enough. That has to improve before Larsson is truly going to take the next step in terms of his offence.

 

[belair]

It is possible to acknowledge the fact that the Oilers lost this deal and still like Larsson as a player. It is possible that Larsson may come close to covering the bet on this deal in the next few years.

It is, but it isn't necessary. Who cares who 'won' the trade? This league is about winning hockey games.

The Oilers needed a top pairing RHD. They went out and got one.

They had to trade Taylor Hall who is an offensive left winger, good for about 80 points a season. They have to make up those points through new acquisitions and organizational growth, which isn't impossible.

How many points do you think Lucic and Puljujarvi score this year?

If you can convince yourself that our team can off-set that loss, then Adam Larsson on his own looks like a very good acquisition. We have a potential top pairing signed for the next half decade at $8 million. And we still have all of our young organizational depth.

 

[guymez]

It is, but it isn't necessary. Who cares if the 'won' the trade. This league is about winning hockey games.

The Oilers needed a top pairing RHD. They went out and got one.

They had to trade Taylor Hall who is an offensive left winger, good for about 80 points a season. They have to make up those points through new acquisitions and organizational growth, which isn't impossible.

How many points do you think Lucic and Puljujarvi score this year?

If you can convince yourself that our team can off-set that loss, then Adam Larsson on his own looks like a very good acquisition. We have a potential top pairing signed for the next half decade at $8 million. And we still have all of our young organizational depth.

Thats a little arrogant...no? You are suggesting that there is no valid reason to discuss the nuts and bolts of this deal?

What possible reason could you have for suggesting such a thing. Its it because its so obvious the Oilers lost this deal that you just dont want to hear it anymore?

Why not just accept the fact that they did lose this deal and go from there?
Then you can then include the Lucic signing and the dumb luck of getting Puljujarvi and how they will help mitigate the loss of Hall.