Confirmed with Link: Tavares to Toronto (7 years, $11M AAV)

[Boutette]

Both players were loved by the fan base until a situation occurred and the player chose a path that these fans didn't agree with.
Both Teams painted their stars as villains as a way to save face with the fans. Shame on both of them.

Just because Sundin and Tavares are stars, doesn't mean they are beyond criticism for their actions and the reasons they have for such actions.

 

[LeafFever]

Yes he did virtually nothing, aka a small percentage. You have shown nothing on here that would indicate Dubas played a MAJOR role in the decision making process. Hell I even went through the trouble of attempting to quantify it and it generously came to 1%.

Has Lou still righted the ship in Long Island?

 

[ACC1224]

Have you taken a look at the people directly signed that were on that Marlies team? In what world can you give him so little credit?
Mark Hunter sits by the phone and waits...

If Hunter was named GM, Tavares would still be a Leaf.

 

[ACC1224]

Just because Sundin and Tavares are stars, doesn't mean they are beyond criticism for their actions and the reasons they have for such actions.

Sure, if the criticism is valid.
In Sundin's case it wasn't, I don't know enough of the Tavares case but it doesn't seem warranted either.

 

[LeafFever]

If Hunter was named GM, Tavares would still be a Leaf.

Oh so now we are so sure Tavares was coming to the Leafs no matter what. no one thought that a week ago.
Boring old Mark Hunter would have organized a presentation which would have put Tavares to sleep.

 

[Menzinger]

Sure, if the criticism is valid.
In Sundin's case it wasn't, I don't know enough of the Tavares case but it doesn't seem warranted either.

It’s not in either case.

Isles knew he was heading to UFA, opted to gamble to resign him rather than trade him and the lost out. Tavares played out his contract (ie his obligation to his team) giving it his all, and decided to take a different path.

 

[LeafFever]

Imagine if we let go a guy who then won the Calder cup and signed the biggest UFA in over a decade. then dubas woould have gotten more credit on here.

 

[Menzinger]

Hahaha
Well I guess we should listen to you and not Tavares

I’m not sure if it’s stubborness, or being deliberately obtuse, but some folks can be staring evidence right in the face and pretend it doesn’t exist.

 

[Boutette]

Sure, if the criticism is valid.
In Sundin's case it wasn't, I don't know enough of the Tavares case but it doesn't seem warranted either.

I respectfully disagree. The team was honest with Sundin regarding their reasons and honest with the fans regarding those reasons. Sundin and the rest of the Muskoka 5 decided their comfort was more important than allowing the team to rebuild, and therefore more important than the fans. As a partial consequence of their collective actions, we got what we got between then and drafting Matthews. I certainly respect Sundin for the years he gave the team and for being the #1 Swedish forward of all time, IMHO, and for being the great core player he was during the exciting Quinn years. But I won't respect him for that particular decision, because it was undeniably selfish.

 

[Walshy7]

I’m not sure if it’s stubborness, or being deliberately obtuse, but some folks can be staring evidence right in the face and pretend it doesn’t exist.

society wide problem. Instead of admitting they are wrong, people argue until they are blue in the face they are right.

I mean we have asshats who actually believe the earth is flat, for real!. There is a misconception that people in the dark ages thought the world was flat they didn't, even people in huts with the black plague knew something that people today are trying to say isn't true.

 

[saltming]

I’m not sure if it’s stubborness, or being deliberately obtuse, but some folks can be staring evidence right in the face and pretend it doesn’t exist.

I honestly think it's egotism at its height.

 

[The CyNick]

Hahaha
Well I guess we should listen to you and not Tavares

What % did JT put on it?

 

[saltming]

What % did JT put on it?

So obviously you didn't read what he said.

 

[The CyNick]

Has Lou still righted the ship in Long Island?

I don't know. The Islanders are one of I would say the five to ten worst run franchises in the league.

I think he's already doing the right stuff. Clearly trying to tank but creating a group that will be rough to play against. This will help the young players that are good that they have.

Your would assume he'll be searching for a goalie at some point, but maybe not this year. And then if they can put themselves in a position to have a shot at #1 this year, then perfect. Of course, you have to rely on a lot of luck for that. Leafs were lucky in that regard. Who knows if Lou will be.

From there I think he will just build up through the draft like he did with the Leafs. Its going to be a long haul for them though. Much like Dubas was handed a perfect situation, Lou has been handed a tire fire.

 

[The CyNick]

So obviously you didn't read what he said.

I did. Again, what percentage did he give? If he didn't give one, you can just admit it. I won't think less of you.

 

[4thline]

If John Tavares doesn't trust in Dubas abilities and vision to get the job done over the next 7 years Tavares is an Islander today. It goes beyond the "dream of wearing blue and white". Tavares made what in his mind was the best move for his career and legacy. If he didn't believe that was Toronto he'd be another childhood leaf fan that decided not to come home.

 

[4thline]

Completely unrelated to the thread, can anyone else believe that Grant McKagg doesn't have a job in the NHL? Great hockey mind (he'll tell you so) and undeniably well connected. It just doesn't add up...

 

[saltming]

I did. Again, what percentage did he give? If he didn't give one, you can just admit it. I won't think less of you.

Well if you read it why do I need to answer?
You're the only one that has this ridiculous idea that there is a percentage assigned to Dubas input in the negotiations. Coincidentally it's also how you shift goalposts. You started with Dubas had virtually no impact to now asking for a numerical quantification on a non mathamatical situation.
But please keep going.

 

[The CyNick]

If John Tavares doesn't trust in Dubas abilities and vision to get the job done over the next 7 years Tavares is an Islander today. It goes beyond the "dream of wearing blue and white". Tavares made what in his mind was the best move for his career and legacy. If he didn't believe that was Toronto he'd be another childhood leaf fan that decided not to come home.

If he thought Dubas was a gong show, definitely he wouldn't sign. But that's different from saying he was a major factor. I don't even know what JT would be able to judge Dubas on other than that one meeting because there's little to no track record in the NHL to say "yeah this guy will get it done".

If you read or listen to what JT stressed i would rank the following in no particular order - 1. Boyhood dream to play for Leafs (nothing to do with Dubas). 2. Great young core (nothing to do with Dubas). 3. Family is all here (nothing to do with Dubas). 4. Isles are a disaster (nothing to do with Dubas).

 

[Flipwon]

If he thought Dubas was a gong show, definitely he wouldn't sign. But that's different from saying he was a major factor. I don't even know what JT would be able to judge Dubas on other than that one meeting because there's little to no track record in the NHL to say "yeah this guy will get it done".

If you read or listen to what JT stressed i would rank the following in no particular order - 1. Boyhood dream to play for Leafs (nothing to do with Dubas). 2. Great young core (nothing to do with Dubas). 3. Family is all here (nothing to do with Dubas). 4. Isles are a disaster (nothing to do with Dubas).

Well reports were that he was very intrigued by Dubas' presentation, and he stressed Dubas' plans to keep the core together etc. That's just the little I've heard I haven't even listened to all his radio hits etc, in which I'm sure there is more evidence that Dubas did more than just show up to the meetings.

 

[The CyNick]

Well reports were that he was very intrigued by Dubas' presentation, and he stressed Dubas' plans to keep the core together etc. That's just the little I've heard I haven't even listened to all his radio hits etc, which I'm sure there is more evidence that Dubas did more than just show up like you're making it sound.

Never said he just showed up. All I've ever said is I don't believe Dubas impact was huge. This has caused an uproar with the Dubas Disciples.

Its similar to my comment in the Martin trade thread. Just said didn't think it was a great return and that upset the people who are on their knees every time Dubas puts on his glasses the right way.

 

[Trapper]

Well if you read it why do I need to answer?
You're the only one that has this ridiculous idea that there is a percentage assigned to Dubas input in the negotiations. Coincidentally it's also how you shift goalposts. You started with Dubas had virtually no impact to now asking for a numerical quantification on a non mathamatical situation.
But please keep going.

If I had to guess I’d say at first Tavares put 16% on it.
Then he thought some and put 29% in it.
After further deliberation he got excited and had 34% going on.
One night while in the bath, he went from 43% to 44% and finally up to 91%.
The smiling face of Dubas sealed it at 100%

 

[Chungo2]

Am I the only one interefint in playing Boston to see who Chara lines up with?

 

[The CyNick]

Well if you read it why do I need to answer?
You're the only one that has this ridiculous idea that there is a percentage assigned to Dubas input in the negotiations. Coincidentally it's also how you shift goalposts. You started with Dubas had virtually no impact to now asking for a numerical quantification on a non mathamatical situation.
But please keep going.

No shifting whatsoever.

If one was to quantify the term "virtually no impact" they may use a percentage like 1%. I laid out the case why I think 1% is accurate and likely on the high end. That's completely in line with my original comment.

Not sure why you're confused here.

 

[saltming]

If I had to guess I’d say at first Tavares put 16% on it.
Then he thought some and put 29% in it.
After further deliberation he got excited and had 34% going on.
One night while in the bath, he went from 43% to 44% and finally up to 91%.
The smiling face of Dubas sealed it at 100%

I agree with your numbers but I think when it was at 44% Dubas asked Tavares if he wanted to play where is waldo the live version and it shot right to 100% then

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I'm sure Dubas laid forth a very compelling case as to why Tavares should have signed with the Leafs. He's very smart, and is very well prepared. The same would/could/should be said of Shanahan and Babcock.

But I agree, I don't think Dubas was the influential factor in the signing. I too believe Tavares would be a Leaf regardless. The money, term, current situation, hometown factor, disaster that is the Islanders franchise -- it was a perfect storm for him to don #91 in the blue and white.