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Tavares signing

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Bomber0104 said:
I'm not disputing that.

If you want to believe there is no possible way we could have better spent $11 million a year than on John Tavares, that's fine by me. It's your opinion.

In my opinion, that cap-space could have been spent innumerable other ways as well, some of which may have had more of a benefit to this team.

I don't see anything controversial about that opinion.
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Well what examples would you suggest?
 
Once Marner is back and he has someone to carry again, all will be well.
 
Well, relative to his salary you could make a case he's the most underperforming player thus far.

He's a good player, but I have an issue signing pretty much any player at that stage of their career for that kind of money. You getting into the years when it's possible that you're paying for what they've done rather than what they may do, which also why they've got to be real careful with Muzzin's new deal if they choose to give him one.

Then there's the issue of was he absolutely necessary and how do you build a team around a certain amount of players making a large portion of the cap and so on...
 
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Some thinking that our 48 goal defensively responsible All Star centre is no good this year...HMMMM

Not sure what to say about that other than HMMMM
 
JT’s contract is not the problem. The three that followed are. If Dubas deals Nylander and Ceci/Barrie he can probably get 3 keys back- the d help that’s needed, the toughness that’s missing, and the cap space everyone wants for flexibility.
 
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Ryan Michaels said:
He is not the best player and he doesn't look like he gives a ****, he broke his stick after the Boston loss, that's about it. I'm happy with the signing because the alternative was retaining 2 of JVR/Bozak/Komarov not some fantasy defender everyone seems to think we would've nabbed, but JT has been one of our most disappointing players this year. I think he buys into boring Babcock more than most but he does absolutely nothing dynamically.
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Who's better than Tavares? Matthews is as disinterested and ineffective as people thought Kessel was when the puck isn't on his stick, Marner has been playing with all the frantic, unfocused energy of a headless chicken this year, so who? Andersen? Tavares is at least one of the four players on this team who could wave in the general direction of the defensive zone.
 
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leafsfan5 said:
1.) The Matthews/Marner contract shouldn't have been impacted by Tavares. Matthews money isn't really all that bad, it's the term that is just atrocious, how did he get that from Tavares? Matthews' two comps (Eichel/Mcdavid, although yes I know mcdavid is much better) both got max term and Dubas should've made sure he got that too. Tavares shouldn't have impacted negotiations at all, and if they did Dubas should've told Matthews that he can use that comp when he's a 28 year old UFA.
2.) Trading for specifically Barrie wasn't due to Tavares. Trading Kadri was, but who we traded Kadri for is the issue. That's not on Tavares', it's Dubas who made the trade

The aftermath of what we did has hurt the leafs, not signing Tavares.
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1) Except M&M did use Tavares as comparable why wouldn't you?
2) Kadri doesn't get traded if we pass on Tavares.
 
7even said:
Who's better than Tavares? Matthews is as disinterested and ineffective as people thought Kessel was when the puck isn't on his stick, Marner has been playing with all the frantic, unfocused energy of a headless chicken this year, so who? Andersen? Tavares is at least one of the four players on this team who could wave in the general direction of the defensive zone.
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I agree, I wouldn’t really complain about his play all that much. Personally, I would have rather kept Kadri and not have the Tavares salary on the books.
 
7even said:
Who's better than Tavares? Matthews is as disinterested and ineffective as people thought Kessel was when the puck isn't on his stick, Marner has been playing with all the frantic, unfocused energy of a headless chicken this year, so who? Andersen? Tavares is at least one of the four players on this team who could wave in the general direction of the defensive zone.
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No player on this team including Tavares seems to give a shit and that starts with the captain. That's because his line gets hemmed in all game because he generates no offence!!
 
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7even said:
Who's better than Tavares? Matthews is as disinterested and ineffective as people thought Kessel was when the puck isn't on his stick, Marner has been playing with all the frantic, unfocused energy of a headless chicken this year, so who? Andersen? Tavares is at least one of the four players on this team who could wave in the general direction of the defensive zone.
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Matthews, obviously, you're criticism of him is justified but could just as easily apply to Tavares, he's just Canadian, the captain and around 30 so he doesn't get the "disinterested" narrative. He's been as passive as anyone this season, frankly he's been a slug.
 
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Right now, I'm looking at the top heavy cap structure a bit more than any one individual contract. Part of that probably necessitates having the top players on the ice more (# of games per season, and perhaps during games as well).

The approach and contracts were always going to be high risk, high reward. Still a lot of term left on his deal (and the others). We'll have to see what can, or cannot be, accomplished.
 
Tavares himself as a player is only part of the equation for evaluation. Great player and class guy and a elite #1C.

There are also other things to consider also in the complete picture.

The signing of Tavares at $11 mil set the Leafs new internal salary cap and caused a change reaction that resulted in Matthews and Marner also getting similar and now as a result of signing JT the Leafs have 3 of the top 5 highest AAV players in the game.

Now because of Cap consequences Leafs are potentially a non playoff team.. So does that factor into this question if you knew signing JT = non playoffs?

Leafs depth took a hit.. In order to sign JT the Leafs had to let JVR + Bozak + Komarov walk as UFAs as those 3 contracts offset the $11 mil you added.

With JVR and Bozak on Leafs PP#1 the Leafs were operating at 25.0 % (2nd best in the NHL) Now with JT on Leafs PP#1 the Leafs are operating at 17.6 % (18th overall) & with Komarov on Leafs PK Leafs were running at 81.4 (10th overall) now without him Leafs PK% is running at 73.1% (27th overall)

Before JT the Leafs 3rd line was JVR + Bozak + Marner and now Moore + Kerfoot + Mikheyev are Leafs 3rd line.

Just some things to think about beyond the player and his signing to also factor into the equation.
 
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Matthews34 said:
1) Except M&M did use Tavares as comparable why wouldn't you?
2) Kadri doesn't get traded if we pass on Tavares.
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1.) Because they're not 28 year old UFA's, they're RFA's and should be compared to the league wide comps in their age group and production level
2.) Trading Kadri wasn't the problem, it's who the return was. If we had a solid defender back from that deal no one would have a problem with it
 
This was a bad signing, The $11 did set the standard for the RFA signings. How could it not. Did Dubas seriously think that the agents representing Matthews, Marner and Nylander would ignore the $11 million given to Tavares and let their clients sign at a discount? Or was Dubas’ plan to sign Tavares and trade away one or two of his young superstars? What world do you live in?
The Leafs were already flush with young offensive talent. What they really needed from Tavares was the kind of leadership that would get them deep into the playoffs. Is it fair to lay that failure at the feet of Tavares? For $11 million you’d better believe it is. For that paycheque he was supposed to lift this team to next level and he didn’t. He’s failed to provide clutch goals both this year and last (that has been Matthews) and he’s failed to provide big plays like big hits and back checking to thwart scoring chances. His face off percentage is respectable, but he ranks third amongst Leaf centres and Kadri was actually slightly better. And yes, this year’s mediocre point production is a problem. A big problem because this is all his $11 million brings to the table.
 
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ACC1224 said:
Once Marner is back and he has someone to carry again, all will be well.
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He has a history of making scrubs into stars. Why not out Willy on his line and observe a 90+ point season from another right winger? Willy has #1 PP minutes to boot. As I understand it, Marner is a 60 point player without JT. Moving Willy there sounds like a match made in heaven.
 
Matthews34 said:
1) Except M&M did use Tavares as comparable why wouldn't you?
2) Kadri doesn't get traded if we pass on Tavares.
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IMO you are not looking at this from the correct perspective.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you feel signing JT was wrong because you needed to sign 88, 34, & 16. From that perspective, yes it has put us in a pretty tough cap position.

However, if you change your perspective to the approach that once you decided to sign JT that one of 88, 34, or 16 would have to be moved, then things would be much more flexible.

Again IMO, the correct decision would have been to move 88.

JT + assets and cap space from an 88 trade > JT & 88

But "we could and we did" so that's that
 
leafsfan5 said:
1.) Because they're not 28 year old UFA's, they're RFA's and should be compared to the league wide comps in their age group and production level
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Sorry, but you have this wrong. RFA contracts relative to FA contracts have been on the rise for a couple of years. GMs are willing to pay more to sign rising RFA stars long-term for future point production vs. paying older FA stars big long-term contracts for past point production, since those contracts with NTCs become a big problem when the older stars production falls off. Dubas would have known this when he signed Tavares, but obviously believed the time was now to go all in, believing Tavares’ leadership would elevate the Leafs to that next level deep into the playoffs. And he didn’t.
 
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