Tank Thread and Tanking GDT XIX: Tankception (BUF @ CBJ)

[TalkingProuder]

Projecting McEichel as a franchise centerman is also a best case scenario.

We're looking at establishing a Cup winning team. Those centerman are not the core of a team contending yearly just to make the playoffs. They have Cup-winning potential. And that's the goal of the tank.

Sorry Eichel and Reinhart are not on the same level of prospect, and I am a huge Reinhart fan. Eichel is as sure a thing as there is at the draft. He will be a superstar franchise center.

Without Eichel we need to hit 2-3 more home runs. If Reinhart is that home run, great. I just am not counting on it. Risto looks like a great pick, Girgensons.

You are painting a best case scenario without Eichel which I don't rule out, just am not banking on.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Sorry Eichel and Reinhart are not on the same level of prospect, and I am a huge Reinhart fan. Eichel is as sure a thing as there is at the draft. He will be a superstar franchise center.

Without Eichel we need to hit 2-3 more home runs. If Reinhart is that home run, great. I just am not counting on it. Risto looks like a great pick, Girgensons.

You are painting a best case scenario without Eichel which I don't rule out, just am not banking on.

Reinhart can be a franchise centerman. Girgensons can be among the best #2s in the league.

Fortunately, guys named Getzlaf, Toews, Kopitar, and Krejci lift Cups as well. Reinhart doesn't need to be Crosby or Malkin. He can be in the conversation among centers listed over time.

You backed off your original position?

If we win tonight, it's over. We will finish 29th and lose the lottery as will Arizona. Say goodbye to Cup Dreams and start figuring out to be a bubble team again.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Reinhart can be a franchise centerman. Girgensons can be among the best #2s in the league.

Fortunately, guys named Getzlaf, Toews, Kopitar, and Krejci lift Cups as well. Reinhart doesn't need to be Crosby or Malkin. He can be in the conversation among centers listed over time.

You backed off your original position?

What is a franchise center?

So Crosby is top tier franchise center what is the bottom tier? Bergeron, Backstrom, Sedin? Not knocking Bergeron just getting a guage of the word "franchise" since it is somewhat arbitrary. In people's definition is there a difference between first line center and franchise center?

 

[TalkingProuder]

Reinhart can be a franchise centerman. Girgensons can be among the best #2s in the league.

Fortunately, guys named Getzlaf, Toews, Kopitar, and Krejci lift Cups as well. Reinhart doesn't need to be Crosby or Malkin. He can be in the conversation among centers listed over time.

You backed off your original position?

I just view scenarios as likely vs possible. I agree with the rosy possibilities. But I don't see us as a cup contender as likely without a lot of things happening that are possible, just not likely.

Where is our Getzlaf, Toews, or Kopitar? If we had one do you honestly think I would care so much about Eichel? We have no stars at forward. I hope Reinhart becomes one. But we need more than one to be a real contender.

If Reinhart is the next Toews, sure, we don't need Eichel. If Zadorov can even be McKee our defense is almost set. I also, despite liking Pegula as owner, see a possible rush to get better when we are still a bottom 5 team next year.

 

[MayDay]

Projecting McEichel as a franchise centerman is also a best case scenario.

I'd say "franchise centerman" is the safe consensus projection for McEichel - the ceiling is much higher.

Ceiling = Generational superstar (eg. Lemieux, Crosby)
|
Safe Projection = Franchise center (eg. Stamkos, Tavares, Getzlaf, Toews)
|
Floor = Quality 1st line Center (eg. Krejci, Seguin, Kopitar, Giroux)

 

[Der Jaeger]

I just view scenarios as likely vs possible. I agree with the rosy possibilities. But I don't see us as a cup contender as likely without a lot of things happening that are possible, just not likely.

Where is our Getzlaf, Toews, or Kopitar? If we had one do you honestly think I would care so much about Eichel? We have no stars at forward. I hope Reinhart becomes one. But we need more than one to be a real contender.

If Reinhart is the next Toews, sure, we don't need Eichel. If Zadorov can even be McKee our defense is almost set. I also, despite liking Pegula as owner, see a possible rush to get better when we are still a bottom 5 team next year.

I view all the possibilities too. Thinking that Reinhart, Girgensons, and Ristolainen make a Cup-contending core isn't a rosy possibility.

The gripe for years is that the Sabres' core was off. Full of wingers. No real centers or defenseman. Now it's on track, and the goalposts shift.

This team is set to be the next Blackhawks. Today.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I'd say "franchise centerman" is the safe consensus projection for McEichel - the ceiling is much higher.

Ceiling = Generational superstar (eg. Lemieux, Crosby)
|
Safe Projection = Franchise center (eg. Stamkos, Tavares, Getzlaf, Toews)
|
Floor = Quality 1st line Center (eg. Krejci, Seguin, Kopitar, Giroux)

That's probably right for McEichel. Reinhart's safe projection is what you list as floor. Two Cup winners in there.

 

[Chad Thundercock]

Eichel looks awesome, but a lot can change with 18 year old kids.

And I think Reinhart's floor is a lot lower than that. He has lots of growing to do yet, and who knows how that will go.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Clearly, we can't count on Arizona to help us, so i am hoping CBJ puts us out of our misery and ends the tank. My heart just can't handle this, so i am going to watch the Amerks tonight instead. I'll be keeping tabs on the score, though.

 

[Clock]

Clearly, we can't count on Arizona to help us, so i am hoping CBJ puts us out of our misery and ends the tank. My heart just can't handle this, so i am going to watch the Amerks tonight instead. I'll be keeping tabs on the score, though.

Fan appreciation night and they've been on a tear plus the disaster that would be FNC on Fan Appreciation Night if they win...

I feel like we'll get what we want tonight if I'm being logical, but the Buffalo fan in me is saying "Oh, here's the setup, now for the shoe to drop."

 

[CrankyJay]

Fan appreciation night and they've been on a tear plus the disaster that would be FNC on Fan Appreciation Night if they win...

I feel like we'll get what we want tonight if I'm being logical, but the Buffalo fan in me is saying "Oh, here's the setup, now for the shoe to drop."

100% agreed on all parts of your post.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[theytookmyson]

coming out of lurker status to give us good juju... lose tonight boys. its time to end the torment.

 

[sjci]

 

[Uberpecker]

Perspective.

Imagine it's April 2012. Buffalo's centers are Derek Roy, Tyler Ennis, Cody Hodgson, and Cody McCormick.

Let's say we had a conversation about tanking, and what the center position might look like afterwards. Suppose I asked if you'd take this center line-up:

#1 Center: Average size. Passer. Super hockey IQ. A cross between Joe Sakic and Henrik Zetterberg. Capable of making good wingers great. Strong two-way play. Strong leadership qualities. Conn Smythe winner type: does all the little things that add up over time, and excels in clutch moments. Captain material.

#2 Center: Toews-lite. Physical, emotional leader. Hard worker. Plays with uncommon intensity. Above-average skill set with size and skating. Can anchor a second line easily and make life easier for smaller, skilled wings. Easily moved to wing and can move all over the line-up and excel. 200 ft. game. Captain material.

#3 Center: Skilled playmaker in the Joe Thornton sense. Improving two-way player who is good at faceoffs. Very good size. Elite puck skill set, but needs to work on skating, defense, and overall intensity. Capable of anchoring a third line against lower QOC. If coached and developed correctly, could anchor a top scoring line. PP asset.

#3 Center: Shorter, stocky version of Jochen Hecht. Possession driver. High hockey IQ. Great 200 ft. game and is tough to play against. Can move to wing and play anywhere in the line-up. Will cover defensively for anyone he plays with and contribute offensively as well. May be best riding shotgun on the wing of a scoring line.

Would you accept this group as the outcome of the tank? I would.

I'm describing Sam Reinhart, Zemgus Girgensons, Mikhail Grigorenko, and Johan Larsson. If we don't get McEichel, they'll draft Marner, Hanifin, or Strome. And the team will still end up just like the Chicago Blackhawks.

Reinhart can be a franchise centerman. Girgensons can be among the best #2s in the league.

Fortunately, guys named Getzlaf, Toews, Kopitar, and Krejci lift Cups as well. Reinhart doesn't need to be Crosby or Malkin. He can be in the conversation among centers listed over time.

Seconded. Our core looks very solid as it is right now. Reinhart: Top 2 picks almost always turn into at least 1st liners/1st pairing dmen. They rarely bust and if they do, it's usually either an injury or an attitude issue. You never have any guarantees, but Reinhart is as solid as they come in both regards. So it's reasonable to project him as at least a 1C in the Bergeron, Krecji, Stepan, Turris tier, which is good enough if you have depth, which we will have.

Another thing that might play a significant role and rarely gets discussed is the influence of projection on a player's development. If a player is developed to fill a certain role will he become the same player as if he were behind a better player on the same position?

E.g. Would Toews have become the same player had he been drafted by Pittsburgh and been slotted behind Crosby/Malkin? By the same token, maybe J. Staal would have become that cup winning captain for the Blackhawks, had he been given the chance to be "the guy" for them.

Another example would be Johanssen, who became what he became patially because his team had no real other option than to let him develop. My point is, a young player's path isn't set in stone and what he turns into also depends on what expectations and opportunities you give them.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Fan appreciation night and they've been on a tear plus the disaster that would be FNC on Fan Appreciation Night if they win...

I feel like we'll get what we want tonight if I'm being logical, but the Buffalo fan in me is saying "Oh, here's the setup, now for the shoe to drop."

This is exactly what i feel. It seems that we are in a good position to be done with this mess tonight, though, so i am gonna hold on to that.

 

[vcv]

That's probably right for McEichel. Reinhart's safe projection is what you list as floor. Two Cup winners in there.

Three cup winners. Krejci, Seguin (I know I know), Kopitar

 

[Bps21*]

If we win tonight we will lead sportscenter tomorrow night after "fan appreciation night". And not in a good way.

 

[sjci]

 

[cybresabre]

I would guess it's based on how long it's been our transparent intention to be here. I'll take the blame for having this avatar since summer.

I will not have blood on my hands, too! KILL IT.

 

[AaronPines]

Tomorrow will be a headline-making national embarrassment if we win out. Myers, Vanek, Pominville and Miller jerseys will litter the ice if we win, and I think that's the starting point.

For the love of god, just lose. C'mon. You're a terrible team, I only need one more game that's like the last 200 games over 2 and a half seasons. Then you can try and I'm on your side all the way.

Does anyone else remember that Bills season where they started 3-0 and then played three winless teams in a row, and every week the feeling was like "****, they're due for a win on that side." And lo and behold, the winless teams won every week. I feel even worse about tonight because Columbus is hot. They feel due for a let down.

****, I can't win. I've never felt more certain of a Sabres win on any given night in my entire life. It feels so inevitable.

 

[TalkingProuder]

Let's Lose Buffalo!

 

[zenthusiast]

Tomorrow will be a headline-making national embarrassment if we win out. Myers, Vanek, Pominville and Miller jerseys will litter the ice if we win, and I think that's the starting point.

For the love of god, just lose. C'mon. You're a terrible team, I only need one more game that's like the last 200 games over 2 and a half seasons. Then you can try and I'm on your side all the way.

Does anyone else remember that Bills season where they started 3-0 and then played three winless teams in a row, and every week the feeling was like "****, they're due for a win on that side." And lo and behold, the winless teams won every week. I feel even worse about tonight because Columbus is hot. They feel due for a let down.

****, I can't win. I've never felt more certain of a Sabres win on any given night in my entire life. It feels so inevitable.

e: whoops thought this was zip from the av

 

[Bps21*]

Tomorrow will be a headline-making national embarrassment if we win out. Myers, Vanek, Pominville and Miller jerseys will litter the ice if we win, and I think that's the starting point.

For the love of god, just lose. C'mon. You're a terrible team, I only need one more game that's like the last 200 games over 2 and a half seasons. Then you can try and I'm on your side all the way.

Does anyone else remember that Bills season where they started 3-0 and then played three winless teams in a row, and every week the feeling was like "****, they're due for a win on that side." And lo and behold, the winless teams won every week. I feel even worse about tonight because Columbus is hot. They feel due for a let down.

****, I can't win. I've never felt more certain of a Sabres win on any given night in my entire life. It feels so inevitable.

I think a more appropriate bills comparison is... Remember the season we started 0-8 and then decided it was the smart thing to go 4-4 to end the season? Luck ended up deciding to return to college after the season...which lessened that blow considerably...but the back half of that year they were just winning meaningless games and "building culture" that led to 4 more seasons and counting of missing the playoffs.

Speaking of the bills...NFL network had the music city Miracle on today. Because the curse.

 

[Squantosawuss]

Ok, don't freak out when I suggest this in a radical quest for an adrenalin rush:

Part of me would like to see the Sabres beat CBJ tonight, just because it is so unlikely AND because it would set the stage for tomorrow----a day that may go down as one of THE most adrenalin-fueled days in Buffalo sports history!

Can anybody appreciate that scenario---even a little?