GDT: Tampa @ Carolina Game 5: The Wretched Rally Towel Prophecy

[Svechhammer]

I don't really buy most of the flawed system or flawed player stuff. Just keep putting a good team out there every year and hope it all comes together for deep runs a few times. Great teams go out early every year. Especially in the divisional format if you have good teams in your division. At least we're going out to pretty good teams and not massive upsets. We were fairly outclassed, but it's not hard to imagine moments in games 1 and 4 for instance that make things look pretty different.

I'd buy this more if this wasn't the 3rd year in a row we went out in the fetal position after a legitimate contender wiped the ice with us.

Fact of the matter is, we cannot contend with talented teams that get physical with us. We completely lose our composure over a series and play just outright dumb hockey when a team decides to muck it up against us. Boston, Boston, Nashville, and Tampa all went this route, and the only reason we didn't lose all 4 series is because we have enough talent that Nashville couldn't finish us off. But even in that winning effort, we played stupid hockey for 6 games and shot ourselves in the dick faaaaaar too often. But against legitimate contending teams that do this against us? I mean the record speaks for itself.

2 wins, 12 losses.

There absolutely is a flaw in our system that has been exposed. We are getting dog walked out of the playoffs in series where we never truly compete for 3 years in a row. A mediocre team like Nashville push us to OT 4 games in a row. We looked like a wild card team against the defending champs when we finished the season with the 3rd best record in the league. And the worst part is that we never really gave ourselves a chance. Any time we had any positive momentum, we threw haymakers at our own groins. We cannot stay out of the penalty box to save our own lives.

 

[hockeynjune]

I wasn’t saying age = success. You have to have studs. Montreal is just a bad team who happened to beat other bad teams.

Tampa’s studs are for the most part older, wiser,
more playoff hardened. The Canes’ studs are young-ish. They’ll learn.

oh and Vasilevskiy.

This and this. Our kids will mature and get better. We may have expected too much based on the talent they obviously have. The Tampa vets clearly rattled them to point of taking them off their game. Ron's going to help with that this off season. I was struck by comments during the reg season from Tampa fans that the reg didn't matter and it was mostly about the playoffs. I get that now and hopefully the kids do too. Based on Sebastian's presser ATG, he does.

 

[Svechhammer]

This and this. Our kids will mature and get better. We may have expected too much based on the talent they obviously have. The Tampa vets clearly rattled them to point of taking them off their game. Ron's going to help with that this off season. I was struck by comments during the reg season from Tampa fans that the reg didn't matter and it was mostly about the playoffs. I get that now and hopefully the kids do too. Based on Sebastian's presser ATG, he does.

Boston did the same thing the previous 2 years, and Nashville did it as well last series.

Everyone keeps saying that we just have to give it time and let the team learn their lessons and they'll grow. I don't know if I completely buy this. Not all lessons learned are good lessons. This team has done the exact same thing in the playoffs for 3 years in a row where they got completely taken out of their game by a team willing to muck it up. They have shown zero improvement, and in fact, I'd say they're only getting worse about it. At this point, I do wonder if they are just learning how to lose their composure rather than how to avoid it, because you'd expect that there would be some kind of improvement by now.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I was struck by comments during the reg season from Tampa fans that the reg didn't matter and it was mostly about the playoffs. I get that now and hopefully the kids do too. Based on Sebastian's presser ATG, he does.

To be fair, it’s easy to say the regular season doesn’t count when you plan to add a Hart winner to the lineup after it’s over. This series would have looked very different if Tampa had used their regular-season lineup.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Most of the talking heads and even Tampa's coach are saying it's playoff management and experience that was the key differentiator not a massive talent gap between the 2 teams. Another point being raised is the lack of sophistication in some of our playmaking at times...being a little more mysterious could have helped us. After the first couple of games, Tampa knew what to expect in most scenarios. Cooper seems quite adept at anticipating next moves as well as switching things up on an opponent now after being burned a few times in the past.

From Sara:

The end-of-season list of injuries and surgeries hasn’t been revealed yet, but, how do I put this? Multiple sources tell me it took a serious belief in the team and desire to win to play through what Trocheck played through.

Love his dedication and spirit...he's a trooper. I hope he didn't harm himself even more though. Fingers crossed whatever it is doesn't take too long to repair or heal.

 

[Svechhammer]

Another point being raised is the lack of sophistication in some of our playmaking at times...being a little more mysterious could have helped us. After the first couple of games, Tampa knew what to expect in most scenarios. Cooper seems quite adept at anticipating next moves as well as switching things up on an opponent now after being burned a few times in the past.

That could be problematic for us because Brindy has admitted that we don't develop set plays, and he doesn't worry himself with adjusting the team to their opponent. He allows the team to kind of do their own thing and let plays develop organically to have success. Unfortunately, that has led to some trends developing that teams have been able to adapt to, and because we don't have any fallback, we don't know how to adjust.

If we are going to win the Cup, Brindy is going to need to coach his nuts off in the next few years. And by that I mean we are going to need to work toward establishing an effective Plan B when teams take away the style that we want to run. Because at this point, teams have figured it out, there is a proven strategy on how to beat us, and top teams have the talent to execute it well.

 

[tarheelhockey]

That could be problematic for us because Brindy has admitted that we don't develop set plays, and he doesn't worry himself with adjusting the team to their opponent. He allows the team to kind of do their own thing and let plays develop organically to have success. Unfortunately, that has led to some trends developing that teams have been able to adapt to, and because we don't have any fallback, we don't know how to adjust.

That certainly showed up in the passing games during this series. Carolina and Tampa have a similar aggressive defensive strategy, getting on top of the puck all the time and leaving very little breathing room. One of the very apparent differences offensively was that the Hurricanes couldn't connect passes to save their life and often resorted to just giving away possession, while Tampa tic-tac-toed around until they established a clean possession.

Most teams aren't good enough to take us to school that way, but once we get past the first round of the playoffs it becomes an issue.

 

[hockeynjune]

That certainly showed up in the passing games during this series. Carolina and Tampa have a similar aggressive defensive strategy, getting on top of the puck all the time and leaving very little breathing room. One of the very apparent differences offensively was that the Hurricanes couldn't connect passes to save their life and often resorted to just giving away possession, while Tampa tic-tac-toed around until they established a clean possession.

Most teams aren't good enough to take us to school that way, but once we get past the first round of the playoffs it becomes an issue.

Yes sir, and I sincerely hope there will be some serious disco on how to address this in the offseason.

 

[Svechhammer]

That certainly showed up in the passing games during this series. Carolina and Tampa have a similar aggressive defensive strategy, getting on top of the puck all the time and leaving very little breathing room. One of the very apparent differences offensively was that the Hurricanes couldn't connect passes to save their life and often resorted to just giving away possession, while Tampa tic-tac-toed around until they established a clean possession.

Most teams aren't good enough to take us to school that way, but once we get past the first round of the playoffs it becomes an issue.

Yeah I cringed a little when I heard him say it on his interview with Adam Gold yesterday. Don't get me wrong, I think he's been great for us, but I think some of his shortcomings and inexperience as a head coach are being exposed a little bit when we play against elite teams in the playoffs. To hear him openly talk about how he doesn't concern himself with strategic adjustments or creating set plays in this league...

Like, I get it where you want to trust your players to work through issues they have, but at a certain point, you have to be willing to pull some levers to push them in the right direction. Switching a goalie or moving around 1 or 2 guys in the lineup cannot be the only adjustments he can make.

 

[bleedgreen]

Most of the talking heads and even Tampa's coach are saying it's playoff management and experience that was the key differentiator not a massive talent gap between the 2 teams. Another point being raised is the lack of sophistication in some of our playmaking at times...being a little more mysterious could have helped us. After the first couple of games, Tampa knew what to expect in most scenarios. Cooper seems quite adept at anticipating next moves as well as switching things up on an opponent now after being burned a few times in the past.

From Sara:


Love his dedication and spirit...he's a trooper. I hope he didn't harm himself even more though. Fingers crossed whatever it is doesn't take too long to repair or heal.

I would disagree about the talent gap. We’re better but not there. Made most obvious by the passing under pressure. It goes deeper than Rod making plays for us. Point doesn’t need a play on a blackboard to do what he does. Nor Kucherov/Stamkos....etc.

Trocheck may be the best addition we’ve had under new management. He has been for me as a fan.

 

[Tryamw]

The bent cop Kowalski or the brat boy Kowalski?

Both!

 

[The Faulker 27]

That certainly showed up in the passing games during this series. Carolina and Tampa have a similar aggressive defensive strategy, getting on top of the puck all the time and leaving very little breathing room. One of the very apparent differences offensively was that the Hurricanes couldn't connect passes to save their life and often resorted to just giving away possession, while Tampa tic-tac-toed around until they established a clean possession.

Most teams aren't good enough to take us to school that way, but once we get past the first round of the playoffs it becomes an issue.

Not too mention they just flat outskated us when it counted. Between the elite skating and passing we got hemmed in multiple times per game. I think we have some good skaters, but probably only a few even close to players like Pointe. It's hard to match, and defend with the weapons Tampa has. Maybe part of it is conditioning. We certainly had a more difficult 1st round than they did. I watched a tired, and beat up team last night. Pesce was visibly gassed over the past couple of games, among others, but he and Skjei carried the lions share when Slavin was out.

 

[Svechhammer]

I think the part of our current situation that concerns me the most, and the part where I really do think we need changes both in talent (we desperately need a legit elite forward) and scheme is not what Tampa just did, but what Nashville did in the previous round. That series showed that even mediocre teams can knock us so far off our game by being physical that we end up beating ourselves over a 7 game series. We had no business letting a team like that hang around as much as they did, and the main reason why they did was because we were addicted to awful turnovers and boneheaded play. If they had any semblance of a respectable PP, we lose that series, probably in the same style that we flamed out against Tampa.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Not too mention they just flat outskated us when it counted. Between the elite skating and passing we got hemmed in multiple times per game. I think we have some good skaters, but probably only a few even close to players like Pointe. It's hard to match, and defend with the weapons Tampa has. Maybe part of it is conditioning. We certainly had a more difficult 1st round than they did. I watched a tired, and beat up team last night. Pesce was visibly gassed over the past couple of games, among others, but he and Skjei carried the lions share when Slavin was out.

What I noticed over and over in every single game of the series, was Tampa players getting the first step on our guys. In the read-and-react game, they were quicker the vast majority of the time. I don't know if that's a talent gap or a coaching gap or a fatigue gap, but it was persistent and IMO was the single biggest reason we lost the series as well as the single biggest reason we lost any given game. Being a stride late to the puck adds up in huge ways when it comes to extending shifts, failing to clear on the PK, just all sorts of things.

 

[Drivebytrucker]

Craig Button on TSN says Tampa is great because they can play any style you want better than you can.

They can play the Tight checking low scoring physical series or if you want to open it up and trade chances...

Obviously we don't have that flexibility or a coach who wants to do that.

Those are big time adjustments that need to be made going forward.

You have to be comfortable playing all sorts of hockey. Playoffs is all about adjustments

 

[The Faulker 27]

What I noticed over and over in every single game of the series, was Tampa players getting the first step on our guys. In the read-and-react game, they were quicker the vast majority of the time. I don't know if that's a talent gap or a coaching gap or a fatigue gap, but it was persistent and IMO was the single biggest reason we lost the series as well as the single biggest reason we lost any given game. Being a stride late to the puck adds up in huge ways when it comes to extending shifts, failing to clear on the PK, just all sorts of things.

That's a great point, and something I noticed as well. Tampa has an edge in terms of overall IQ but I think fatigue was a big part of it as well. Players you don't normally see standing around were flat footed, and cheating more often. Carolina led the league in tripping, and hooking calls in the playoffs and I think that tends to happen more when you're a step behind. I know it's different, but in the regular season games vs Tampa Carolina matched that awareness, and reactivity much better than what I saw in this series. They needed a full tank going in, and they just didn't have that.

 

[spockBokk]

To me, the talent gap was the main issue against Tampa. To a lesser degree, systems played a big role too. It seemed the Tampa
players were much more likely to look to make a play in the offensive zone versus the Canes’ forwards who are pretty much always dumping the puck in and then battling for the puck.

Tampa’s offense is forwards holding onto the puck as long as they can looking for the right play or pass. The Canes’ offense is chip it in, get it, throw it around the boards blindly and hope for a shooting lane off the endless cycle

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I'm not too worried over this loss. I wish they had put up more of a fight, but the way I see it: Carolina is to Tampa what Tampa was to Chicago a few years back.

Canes are a young team but they're learning how to lose, which is just as important as how to win. I mean, Staal and Gardiner are the only "vets" on the team (Reimer, as well, I guess). Everyone else can still be considered a young or prime player. Svech is only 21 and already has a few tough playoff losses under his belt. I'm betting that'll ignite a fire as he grows.

The focus now should be to get RBA's deal done

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I'd buy this more if this wasn't the 3rd year in a row we went out in the fetal position after a legitimate contender wiped the ice with us.

Without getting into the roster construction stuff, because I think we all need a few days to calm down before having meaningful convos about that, this is a good point just from a fan experience perspective.

After a 10 years playoff drought I never expected to be indifferent about a playoff game, but all 3 years by the time we were eliminated I just didn't care because it had such a feeling of inevitability. I didn't even watch the end of the game last night - once Tampa made it 2-0 it was pretty easy to change the channel.

I suppose in some sense it's better than going out in a heartbreaker, but man...

Also, if you think back, we haven't lost a series in more than 5 games in 20 years. Even before these last 3 seasons, Pens swept us out, Wings beat us in 5. 20 years as a Canes fan and I've never experienced a "heartbreaking" playoff loss - we either win or we go out with a whimper shrouded in inevitability.

 

[tarheelhockey]

That's a great point, and something I noticed as well. Tampa has an edge in terms of overall IQ but I think fatigue was a big part of it as well. Players you don't normally see standing around were flat footed, and cheating more often. Carolina led the league in tripping, and hooking calls in the playoffs and I think that tends to happen more when you're a step behind. I know it's different, but in the regular season games vs Tampa Carolina matched that awareness, and reactivity much better than what I saw in this series. They needed a full tank going in, and they just didn't have that.

Yeah, the dumb penalties were a huge red flag in this series. I don't know if we win this series without them, but we absolutely take it the distance. Even with all the other stuff going on, we had a legit shot. Then we absolutely choked away game 4 and very nearly got ourselves swept with the OT penalty in game 3.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I suppose in some sense it's better than going out in a heartbreaker, but man...
I've never experienced a "heartbreaking" playoff loss

As bad as it feels to get bumped in 4 or 5, we'd all be feeling a lot worse about a heartbreaker in 6 or 7. Those are hard to get out of your head for a long time afterward. There's no actual pride in saying "at least we took them 7 games before we shot the puck off our own goalie in OT!".

To me the difference between this series and the past couple of years are:
a) Tampa is not Boston as a hockey team
b) Tampa is not Boston as a fanbase
c) We may have shot ourselves in the foot here and there, but not to the extent of meltdowns and embarrassment. Especially not in context of A and B.

 

[Svechhammer]

c) We may have shot ourselves in the foot here and there, but not to the extent of meltdowns and embarrassment. Especially not in context of A and B.

Game 4 was a meltdown, and you're fooling yourself if you say otherwise. And given the implications of that game, with the possibility to come back here with home ice and a tied series, pissing that away in the fashion we did? Yeah that was a pretty brutal choke

 

[3CanesInTheBox]

Man, I really wonder if we could have won this series if Tro and Nino were healthy. I know injuries are lame excuses, but it could have changed the whole complexion of the series and the discussions we are having now.

 

[The Faulker 27]

Game 4 was a meltdown, and you're fooling yourself if you say otherwise. And given the implications of that game, with the possibility to come back here with home ice and a tied series, pissing that away in the fashion we did? Yeah that was a pretty brutal choke

I think part of that is growing pains though. Yes it hurts, but you learn from it and I mean Rod too. He probably should have called a timeout and cooled things off when they scored #3 and it was starting to get out of control. He's not the coach Cooper is, yet anyway. I think it's important to not expect a cup contender from a young team and coach that made the playoffs for the first time in 10 years just 3 seasons ago.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Game 4 was a meltdown, and you're fooling yourself if you say otherwise. And given the implications of that game, with the possibility to come back here with home ice and a tied series, pissing that away in the fashion we did? Yeah that was a pretty brutal choke

That's not the kind of meltdown I mean. That was a bad loss due to dumb penalties and atrocious goaltending.

I'm talking Justin Williams losing his shit on Marchand and then having to deal with all the media/online fallout from that. Or getting pumped 16-6 in a sweep. Those kinds of meltdowns, the ones where you can't hold a positive thought in your head about the entire experience.