GDT: Tampa @ Carolina Game 5: The Wretched Rally Towel Prophecy

[Finlandia WOAT]

And you don’t see why there might be a few reasons why Hamilton blowing defensive coverage might get more criticism than McGinn or Foegle?

I'm saying if Tripp pointed out everytime Foegele or McGinn, or anyone on the team for that matter, screwed up (which I think is possible, since defense is more difficult to do than offense, teams are always going to generate offense, even against someone like Slavin /insert gif of Lidstrom getting walked by Forsberg), your average fan is going to have a more negative impression than if Tripp reserved his usual saccharine sycophancy.

You have a much lower opinion of the average hockey fan than I do

What do you conceptualize as an average fan? Since its a relative term, I take it to mean your fan who will watch a bunch of games, go to a handful of games, but not really someone who is seriously emotionally invested.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

What do you conceptualize as an average fan? Since its a relative term, I take it to mean your fan who will watch a bunch of games, go to a handful of games, but not really someone who is seriously emotionally invested.

Yep, that's a good description of an average fan. And with that, if you're a fan of this team (any team, really), you're emotionally invested. And if you're "watching a bunch of games and going to a handful of them", you're probably versed well enough with the nuances of the game to judge a play on your own terms rather than parrot whatever Tripp says.

Now if you're going to claim a casual fan will parrot Tripp, sure, go nuts. But the casual fan also probably isn't going out of their way to criticize Hamilton

 

[Roboturner913]

A $6 million player with a higher profile like Dougie is naturally going to garner more criticism when he screws up than a Warren Foegele who makes basically minimum salary. That's just how it works. If Tom Cruise makes a shit movie he's going to hear about for a long time; if Carrot Top makes a shit movie nobody cares because nobody expects Carrot Top to make a good movie.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

And if you're "watching a bunch of games and going to a handful of them", you're probably versed well enough with the nuances of the game to judge a play on your own terms rather than parrot whatever Tripp says.

What makes you say that?

 

[Blueline Bomber]

What makes you say that?

Because no one's spending hundreds of dollars going to a game without at least a basic understanding of what's going on.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Because no one's spending hundreds of dollars going to a game without at least a basic understanding of what's going on.

There's a difference between having a basic understanding of what's going on, and having a well enough opinion of hockey to be separate from Tripp Tracy.

As loaded as this is, that's where I'd draw the distinction between an average fan and the knowledgeable one, the knowledgeable on seeks out information to develop their opinion, but also mostly people to talk with about hockey.

If you want, I've developed a handy quiz to test if your hockey opinion is average or superfan:

1) In what zone is a player allowed to hand pass?
A) None
B) All
C) other (please specify)

2) How would you rank Dougie Hamilton's defense?
A) Better than Slavin
B) 3rd pairing
C) both

 

[Blueline Bomber]

You can form your own opinion and still have
the same opinion as Tripp. Doesn't mean you're parroting, it means you both saw the same thing and formed the same opinion separately.

So when Hamilton blows coverage, and it's obvious that he does so to literally everyone, just because Tripp points it out doesn't mean everyone who talks about his blown coverage is parroting him.

 

[HisIceness]

5. Why did everyone seem to hate Dougie Hamilton so much?

Honestly I'm not so sure he ever fully recovered from that leg injury last season (I'm still in disbelief the refs missed an obvious too-many-men on the opposition 15 seconds earlier )

He had some really bizarre bone-headed moments this season. Like drop-passing to an opponent in your own end bizarre, the kind of mistake you'd expect to see someone who is playing for the first time make. It brought back bad memories of guys like Bobby Sanguinetti in positions that were way above their pay-grade.

I have no ill will towards him at all, but again I'm not sure if that injury screwed with him because he was just not the player we've come to know and love here.

 

[Buenos Necas]

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that people like Tripp and Adam Gold have a decent amount of influence in shaping public opinion of the players. There are plenty of fans who spend the money to go to several games a year simply because they just enjoy going to games. People go to enjoy the atmosphere and it's fun to cheer on the local team with friends. It's probably a coinflip at best that the average fan at PNC could fully explain how both offsides and icing work. And that's not a criticism, everyone's fandom is different and I'm glad more people have been filling the building lately. I think the average fan leans a decent amount on local media to help inform their opinions.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

You can form your own opinion and still have
the same opinion as Tripp. Doesn't mean you're parroting, it means you both saw the same thing and formed the same opinion separately.

I didn't say parroting, you said parroting. I said Tripp singling out Hamilton every time he screws up (and even when he doesn't but is just on the ice for a goal against) moreso than other players, can create a negative perception among people who don't know better. My definition of an "average fan" assumes the people involved wouldn't always know enough to tell whether or not you disagree with Tripp.

You must at least admit this could play a part (just as I admit it could be coincidental). Though I kind of do want to pick a random player next year and just loudly post whenever they screw up, just to see what effect that has on Forum 26.

But then, I also question if our hypothetical "average fan" would even know if anyone screwed up if Tripp weren't there to point it out. The Facebook page doesn't seem to notice McGinn's blown coverage. Maybe I'm just cynical. OTOH, when I watch a baseball game or visit RealGM (the NBA version of HF that allows gif responses and off topic political talk, and the Toronto fans there are even MORE annoying than HF!) I usually have no idea whether what the color guy/poster is saying is valid or complete BS. It's about having a knowledge base.

So when Hamilton blows coverage

IMO Hamilton is actually good at defensive zone coverage (outside his first 40 games here, which were pretty brutal in this regard), his flaws are mainly 1) when to activate and go for 50/50 pucks in the offensive zone (and he had several brain farts like this against Tampa which led to good chances, including a SH 2 on 1 in game 5 that Ned barely kept out of the net) and 2) in transition, when he fires a bad pass edit: oh also 3) in the playoffs he definitely plays more nervous, like he's afraid he'll screw up, the above Tampa 2 on 1 was a result of him hesitating for a split second before pinching

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I’m not going to go back and look at every goal against in the playoffs (Why subject yourself to that again?), but I recall Hamilton being out of position a few times against Nashville and at least once against Tampa.

The Tampa Bay one stands out the most to me, because he was completely lost in the defensive zone. I did go look this one up to confirm my memory:



Starts at 1:00. He deflects a nothing chance (maybe a blind pass attempt?) to the point, and focuses entirely on the point man, apparently forgetting about the guy whose pass he just deflected and Point, his man, left all alone beside the net.

He almost singlehandedly created a goal out of nothing. Too bad it was a goal against.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

He almost singlehandedly created a goal out of nothing.

Hamilton was caught puck watching

Svechnikov missed the deflection that led it to the guy at the point

Cernak was Aho's man, who Aho was not on because he (and Teravainen) flew the zone before the puck was cleared

"singlehandedly"

BTW that was Point's only ES point in the series

EDIT: I agree Hamilton had a rough series of games in Nashville though.

EDIT II: And yes, that is a good example of Hamilton taking a second too long/not reading the play correctly, ie not seeing Cernak come in when he left Point to Slavin. I think Hamilton is flawed in that he takes a split second too long to correctly diagnose broken plays like this one, which is why he worked so well with Slavin, a player who rarely screws up.

I wasn't clear, I think, if the offensive team 5v5 has clear possession and is cycling then Hamilton is fine at maintaining his man/communicating switches- but he does struggle on broken plays like this one

Point, his man

Actually it looks like Hamilton left Point to Slavin (which Slavin did until Cernak came in Aho-less, at which point he played it like a 2 on 1) and did not see Cernak activate because he was puck watching (or maybe playing the shot for a second too long)

 

[bleedgreen]

I don’t understand how Tripp is able to influence anybodies opinion. He’s basically a crazy person who rambles from non-sequitur to non-sequitur and digresses into endless irrelevancies. Which I love, but nobody should take him seriously.

I agree completely, but there was a turn around here that matched when Tripp started cracking on him. Majority of the time I thought Tripp was off his rocker with the analysis. Tripp does that, when someone isn’t in favor anymore they suddenly make mistakes in his view that clearly are someone else’s. To be fair, when he’s criticizing guys he likes he’s also usually wrong.

 

[bleedgreen]

Hamilton was caught puck watching

Svechnikov missed the deflection that led it to the guy at the point

Cernak was Aho's man, who Aho was not on because he (and Teravainen) flew the zone before the puck was cleared

"singlehandedly"

BTW that was Point's only ES point in the series

EDIT: I agree Hamilton had a rough series of games in Nashville though.

EDIT II: And yes, that is a good example of Hamilton taking a second too long/not reading the play correctly, ie not seeing Cernak come in when he left Point to Slavin



Actually it looks like Hamilton left Point to Slavin (which Slavin did until Cernak came in Aho-less, at which point he played it like a 2 on 1) and did not see Cernak activate because he was puck watching (or maybe playing the shot for a second too long)

It’s not even worth arguing anymore. A year ago Hamilton played that exactly the same way and no one cared or noticed.

 

[Canes]

I have a feeling whether Hamilton re-signs or not we're going to be having several years of debates on him as he's probably the most high profile UFA-to-be we've ever had, especially on defense. And the fact that there seems to be hardcore factions for both sides doesn't make it any better. I lean towards letting him walk if he wants market price but I am not opposed to bringing him back either.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Hi guys, Tampa fan here. I'm a bit late due to unwanted circumstances but still. Just wanted to pay tribute to your season and also to you, as fans who attended the last game, the support you gave to your team after the game was incredible. So much respect for your fanbase. I'm a fan of Coach Rod and I think you're following a similar path to what Tampa is achieving right now. Best of luck guys.