Sweden is not a hockey power anymore

[AB13]

And you don´t have anyone close to Lundell, Barkov nor Aho. Or Rantanen either... These guys are still young enough. Like just tell me one Swedish center who's one Lundells level among your prospects? He's already better than EP and I promise you that a big majority of NHL coaches would pick him before EP.

Pettersson is better than Lundell. I think William Eklund is just as good of a prospect. I think you value perceived two way ability higher than me when rating players.

Zibanejad, Forsberg, Nylander, Bäckström, Lindholm, Landeskog are all at least as good as Aho.

 

[jonlin]

Defense

#3 Hedman 11+39 = 50 points
#13 Dahlin 8+25 = 33 points
#28 Andersson 2025 = 27 points
#28 EK 8+18 = 26 points
#32 Klingberg 1+25 = 26 points

#27 Heiskanen 4+23 = 27 points
#81 Lindell 3+12 = 15 points

I`d argue that Lindell and Hakanpää are better at defence than 4 of thoose. A hockey-team cant have 5 PP-quarterbacks. It`s a team-game and Finland has a pretty well-rounded roster. I doubt all swedish defenders can play an offensive role as they do in their teams.

 

[jonlin]

Pettersson is better than Lundell. I think William Eklund is just as good of a prospect. I think you value perceived two way ability higher than me when rating players.

Zibanejad, Forsberg, Nylander, Bäckström, Lindholm, Landeskog are all at least as good as Aho.

Well, put up a poll on HF? I somehow think you`ll loose.

 

[Svedu]

Pettersson is better than Lundell. I think William Eklund is just as good of a prospect. I think you value perceived two way ability higher than me when rating players.

Zibanejad, Forsberg, Nylander, Bäckström, Lindholm, Landeskog are all at least as good as Aho.

Eklund just as good as Lundell? What are you trying to achieve here? Do you want everyone here to consider you as a troll? Is that your goal?

 

[jonlin]

There is also no guarantee that star offensive players would buy into a defensive trap-based system

Are you suggesting that Finlands Barkov, Aho, Teräväinen, Hintz, Lundell, Kapanen, Lehkonen, Haula etc, who all play PK and 2-way game wont commit to a 2-way gameplan?

 

[Svedu]

Zibanejad, Forsberg, Nylander, Bäckström, Lindholm, Landeskog are all at least as good as Aho.

Okay, you've convinced me now. No point on spending time arguing with you. First it was actually funny. Now it's not even entertaining.

 

[AB13]

But it's not trap based system or defensive system, Jalonen hockey = puck control hockey. It's molded and modified based on players and roster he has. For example last couple of WHC, we had basically Liiga rosters on steroids so obviously you need to play smart and not just attack attack.

Pretty much all finnish stars have played under Jalonen. For example 2016 WJC team which was dominant, literally beat Canada and every country with pure attacking game with Laine, Aho, Rantanen, Pulju, Hintz etc.

Jalonen is a genious and it's not just one way of playing hockey. It's extremely versatile structure that all of our players know by heart now, it's nothing that NHL players have to buy. They all know how it works.

If Jalonen can coach an effective attack, which I don’t know enough about Jalonen to definitively say, Finland are a force to be reckoned with, for sure. If Jalonen has the ability coach a play driving team at the highest level, it will be hard to stop you. I see that Jalonen is a genius and he is obviously a huge asset that other countries can’t match. Coaching is Finland’s biggest advantage.

 

[Deas]

At the moment I think Switzerland clearly have Germany beat. Might be overexagerrating a bit though. The likes of Reichel developing can probably make up that difference quite soon and I do think both Reichel and Peterka could be solid NHL contributors today with the right opportunity. Right now I think Switzerland have four of the 5 best forwards and 4 of the 5 best defencemen.

Yeah I'm with you as we were talking a tournament today. I got carried away with Germany's potential.

 

[AB13]

Are you suggesting that Finlands Barkov, Aho, Teräväinen, Hintz, Lundell, Kapanen, Lehkonen, Haula etc, who all play PK and 2-way game wont commit to a 2-way gameplan?

If Haula, Kapanen, Lehkonen play minutes for you at a best on best tournament that is a problem in itself. I think you know which guys I mean. The likes of Laine.

 

[karhukissa]

If Jalonen can coach an effective attack, which I don’t know enough about Jalonen to definitively say, Finland are a force to be reckoned with, for sure. If Jalonen has the ability coach a play driving team at the highest level, it will be hard to stop you. I see that Jalonen is a genius and he is obviously a huge asset that other countries can’t match. Coaching is Finland’s biggest advantage.

Well 2016 is a prime example. USA has guys like Matthews, Tkachuk, Werenski and Canada had Marner, Point etc but Finland was by far the best attacking team in this tournament under Jalonen, because he had offensive talent in his hands.

Thing is that all our junior national teams play this similar playstyle and structure. And you are correct, because of coaching Finland has always a change to win any team anywhere anytime, even with worse rosters. That's why we have the most medals during recent years.

And same thing with Sweden, because it's a small country compared to Canada or USA. We can't never have more quality because of simple law of player masses, but we can have something else that they don't have.

 

[jonlin]

If Haula, Kapanen, Lehkonen play minutes for you at a best on best tournament that is a problem in itself. Most of them wouldn’t make the B team on rival teams. I think you know which guys I mean. The likes of Laine.

I guess you havent watched Laine this season? He is actually playing 2-way game and is a + player on a -31 Columbus. So, the likes of Laine seem to do really way in that department, even though he isnt what Id call a 2-way player. Go check Columbus boards and read about him...

29gp

16g

15a

31p

+2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[AB13]

I guess you havent watched Laine this season? He is actually playing 2-way game and is a + player on a -31 Columbus. So, the likes of Laine seem to do really way in that department, even though he isnt what Id call a 2-way player. Go check Columbus boards and read about him...

29gp

16g

15a

31p

+2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I will catch some Colombus games and see for myself. I do believe that +- says nothing about a players ability at all, and that it is one of the worst stats in hockey. But I will check out what Columbus fans say. Haven’t watched much of them because well they aren’t exactly one of the primetime entertainment teams of the NHL.

 

[The Cannon of Tesoma]

Huh. After all Sweden has still some hope. I took only 6 pages to get regenerated back to reality.

 

[Eye of Ra]

The below is the 3rd (arguably down to no less than 5th) best hockey team in the world.

I am not Swedish or have any particular love for Swedish hockey. Your take is a bad joke and really speaks to a lack of hockey knowledge.

NOT top ten...WTF.

Forsberg-Mika-Pettersson
Landeskog-Karlsson-Lindholm
Rakell-Bäckström-Nylander
Backlund-Eriksson Ek-Hörnqvist
Silfverberg, Olofsson

Hedman-Klingberg
Brodin-Ekholm
Lindholm-OEL
Andersson, Karlsson

Markström/Lehner

thats not our current best team, this is:

Landeskog - Zibanejad - Nylander
Forsberg - Lindholm - Bratt
Arvidsson - Bäckström - Burakovsky
Joel Eriksson Ek - William Karlsson - Hörnqvist

Hedman - Lindholm
Brodin - Karlsson
Dahlin - Ekholm
Forsling - R.Andersson

Markström
Lehner
Ullmark

 

[Eye of Ra]

There would not be a very big difference in level between USA and Canada with the NHL selections. Above all, the gap is narrowing more and more.

Russia should be the 3rd nation. Sweden 4 Finland 5 Czech Republic 6 Slovakia 7.

The order is very clear for the next 20 years. I don't even understand how we can still debate this.

If there is debate, it is to know who will have the 8th best group of players soon between Switzerland and Germany or the 10th best group between Belarus and Denmark.

what has sweden done to be placed over finland, czechia and slovakia?

 

[Buck Nasty]

thats not our current best team, this is:

Landeskog - Zibanejad - Nylander
Forsberg - Lindholm - Bratt
Arvidsson - Bäckström - Burakovsky
Joel Eriksson Ek - William Karlsson - Hörnqvist

Hedman - Lindholm
Brodin - Karlsson
Dahlin - Ekholm
Forsling - R.Andersson

Markström
Lehner
Ullmark

Well I stand corrected then....Pettersson and Klingberg don't make your national team. Definitely not top 10.

 

[AB13]

Well I stand corrected then....Pettersson and Klingberg don't make your national team. Definitely not top 10.

Eye of Ra loves trolling which is weird because no one is entertained by it. He is otherwise extremely knowledgeable about the sport.

 

[Buck Nasty]

Eye of Ra loves trolling

I noticed.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Holy overreaction to recent tournaments with the C-squads.

Also, while I love Finland's rise in talent production over the last 10 years or so their current roster strength in a best on best tournament is overrated. They currently have one top level NHL-defenseman. One.

Finland have better defenders than Sweden. A lot better. Swedish defenders are good offensivly but utter shit in their own zone unlik the finnish defenders who are great in their own zone. Being a defender is after all 90 % about defending.

 

[kudla]

The fact that this thread has 143 replies is hilarious

 

[Elias40]

Pettersson is better than Lundell. I think William Eklund is just as good of a prospect. I think you value perceived two way ability higher than me when rating players.

Zibanejad, Forsberg, Nylander, Bäckström, Lindholm, Landeskog are all at least as good as Aho.

I'm sorry, but this is complete nonsense. Lundell is already a comprehensive center, in the future 2C strong Florida. He is not collecting as many points as he could, but I think it is partly due to the quality of his teammates in his attack. The EP is a great player, but it's too one-sided, unlike Lundell. To win a tournament, I would definitely prefer Lundell, the only advantage of the EP is the power play, where it is excellent and can decide for your team. At 5vs5, I think Lundell would beat the EP in a confrontation because it has a wider repertoire of skills.

When you look at the Finnish tournament winnings, you see that they don't need to dominate the game and be that active team at all times. This is the difference between Swedish and Finnish attackers. The Swedes collect more points in the NHL because there are more of them, but in short tournaments it does not decide even matches. The Finnish game is much more successful because it is based on skating and active movement with an emphasis on the role of the individual. The Swedish offensive might break the Finnish defense. Even though Sweden looks more offensive at first glance, it does not mean winning if we are talking about the best on the best. And the Finnish win in Slovakia confirms my words, because Sweden had enough NHL players on the roster, yet it did not beat the Finnish European team. I would even say that the Swedish team in Sochi was the perfect machine, something like Finland right now.

The question remains how Jalonen would handle the NHL players. After all, it is different if he sits Ojamäki in the European selection and something else is different if he sits Granlund. But with his experience, I think he'd win NHL stars on his side.

 

[Garl]

I'm sorry, but this is complete nonsense. Lundell is already a comprehensive center, in the future 2C strong Florida. He is not collecting as many points as he could, but I think it is partly due to the quality of his teammates in his attack. The EP is a great player, but it's too one-sided, unlike Lundell. To win a tournament, I would definitely prefer Lundell, the only advantage of the EP is the power play, where it is excellent and can decide for your team. At 5vs5, I think Lundell would beat the EP in a confrontation because it has a wider repertoire of skills.

When you look at the Finnish tournament winnings, you see that they don't need to dominate the game and be that active team at all times. This is the difference between Swedish and Finnish attackers. The Swedes collect more points in the NHL because there are more of them, but in short tournaments it does not decide even matches. The Finnish game is much more successful because it is based on skating and active movement with an emphasis on the role of the individual. The Swedish offensive might break the Finnish defense. Even though Sweden looks more offensive at first glance, it does not mean winning if we are talking about the best on the best. And the Finnish win in Slovakia confirms my words, because Sweden had enough NHL players on the roster, yet it did not beat the Finnish European team. I would even say that the Swedish team in Sochi was the perfect machine, something like Finland right now.

The question remains how Jalonen would handle the NHL players. After all, it is different if he sits Ojamäki in the European selection and something else is different if he sits Granlund. But with his experience, I think he'd win NHL stars on his side.

Pettersson is a superior player than Lundell. There are some areas where Lundell is superior, but there are some areas where Johan Larsson is better than Lundell or Pettersson, so what? In some cases, it's better to use Lundell, in some it's better to use Larsson.

 

[Garl]

Canada
Sweden
USA
Finland
Russia

This is how it is. Sweden is better than Finland(Defense and forward depth), than Russia(Centers, forward depth, defense). As for USA, roster of USA is better but they consistently underperform as a group.

 

[Garl]

As for young players, Sweden has more top prospects than Finland and Russia. The only weakness is probably the fact that Sweden doesn't have Michkov-esque prospects, but Sweden is a rather small country, such prospects are not often.

 

[Filip Karlsson]

I`d argue that Lindell and Hakanpää are better at defence than 4 of thoose. A hockey-team cant have 5 PP-quarterbacks. It`s a team-game and Finland has a pretty well-rounded roster. I doubt all swedish defenders can play an offensive role as they do in their teams.

I mean, do you seriously believe that Hakanpää & Lindell are better stay at home D-men than Brodin, H. Lindholm & Ekholm?