Suzuki vs Caufield - Pick one to build with

[Miller Time]

I would expect Suzuki to outpace him. Suzuki is entering his prime. CC is going to be much better at 23 than he is now. And he’s already pacing for 40+ goals.

And in no way do I want to diminish Suzuki. I like him a lot. But I don’t see superstar there. I could absolutely be wrong on that but I think he’s going to be a legit top line center - not superstar.

As for his 60 points, he obviously was hampered by DD. But people keep saying he’s already a superstar… I don’t see it. He hasn’t proven this at all.

CC on the other hand has a lot of history behind him and - as he’s done his whole life - is now putting pucks in the net. There’s elite talent there.

They are less than a year & 1/2 in age difference...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Players progress.
Players with the work ethic & track record of both these kids are all but locks to improve, significantly, in their early 20's.

Your critiques aren't wrong, but assuming they aren't aware of them & won't make strides to improve them is, imo.

Is Marchand a superstar? What about at 22? Just one of many examples to look at.

I have my own opinion on Marchand’s late blooming that I’m not allowed to share here. That is a huge outlier.

Suzuki can be better in every way but if CC is constantly challenging for the Richard, he’s the more valuable asset. Trottier was more complete than Bossy. Same with Oates and - maybe Francis. But those wingers were scoring machines. Can’t understate how valuable it is to have those scorers. When you’re down in the game you NEED a guy like that.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

They are less than a year & 1/2 in age difference...

That’s big enough.

 

[Banjo Cat]

Suzuki not only scores goals but also creates the plays. And he is a center. No brainer. Suzuki is the best player on the team. And is on pace right now to be the best player we have had in years.

 

[Banjo Cat]

That’s big enough.

That's a good point. At that age, a year and a half is a big difference. Caufield is only in his second year. Hmmm.. you got me thinking now. Yeah, I guess only time will tell.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I have my own opinion on Marchand’s late blooming that I’m not allowed to share here. That is a huge outlier.

Suzuki can be better in every way but if CC is constantly challenging for the Richard, he’s the more valuable asset. Trottier was more complete than Bossy. Same with Oates and - maybe Francis. But those wingers were scoring machines. Can’t understate how valuable it is to have those scorers. When you’re down in the game you NEED a guy like that.

Absolutely true, in principle. But Suzuki can also score goals to a high degree, so it is not like Oates versus Hull.

I voted Suzuki, but yeah Caufield at 21 is super-impressive. He has been improving his compete level and defensive awareness as well.

 

[Habs Halifax]

ermmm... Take one, carry that over... Pretty sure that makes 5 players.

I can't count .

Add a 2nd line center to get to 6

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Absolutely true, in principle. But Suzuki can also score goals to a high degree, so it is not like Oates versus Hull.

I voted Suzuki, but yeah Caufield at 21 is super-impressive. He has been improving his compete level and defensive awareness as well.

Oates could score. He had a 45 goal season. Trottier could score too. He was one of the most well rounded players in the league.

But there’s no substitute for a guy who consistently scores. That is just too valuable to pass over.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

No need to cannibalize our players here..

That said, it’s fairly easily Suzuki and Caufield is my favourite player.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Oates could score. He had a 45 goal season. Trottier could score too. He was one of the most well rounded players in the league.

But there’s no substitute for a guy who consistently scores. That is just too valuable to pass over.

Please! Oates' 45 goal season was an outlier, only one other season over 25 (the one was 32) Oates averaged 0.255 g/gp for his illustrious career = 20.4 goals per 80 game season. That's around half of Brett Hull. It's not like Suzuki and Caufield who are much closer in goal scoring performance.

 

[Walrus26]

Suzuki, although Caufield looks like he'd be more at home building with a bucket full of Lego.

They are the key duo on the team and we have to support both of them.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Please! Oates' 45 goal season was an outlier, only one other season over 25 (the one was 32) Oates averaged 0.255 g/gp for his illustrious career = 20.4 goals per 80 game season. That's around half of Brett Hull. It's not like Suzuki and Caufield who are much closer in goal scoring performance.

Even still, Oates was a two way complete player. And Trottier was one of the best in the league.

I don’t see Suzuki being a perpetual 50 goal guy. He’s having a great year on that front but his shooting percentage is crazy high. If he could do that and put up the assists, then he’d qualify for superstar status and it’s a different conversation. But I don’t see that happening.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Trying to draw a line in picking one to build around is like trying to choose between Makar and Mackinnon and if you have one, you are not building well cause you need more than one to build around.

I don't get the point of this. Why would you ever build around one player?

 

[Revansky]

I’m not sure where you come up with the 15 point requirement. Moreover, I’d say goals are always worth more than assists. It’s a more valuable skill.

I'm not sure either, it mostly subjective but it gives a picture of how i think Suzuki impacts the game better with his defensive abilities. Can understand the value of goals and your general point. You may be right in the end but i don't see it for now.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Suzuki, and it’s not close, as the poll results suggest.

It’s not just because he’s a center. It’s because he’s so versatile. Can play PK and PP, scores goals and collects assists, controls the play to open space for his linemates. His goal:assist ratio is surprising considering he could shoot more. His shot is lethal. His IQ, competitiveness, leadership - all top shelf.

Not to take anything away from CC. Terrific player.

 

[Miller Time]

I have my own opinion on Marchand’s late blooming that I’m not allowed to share here. That is a huge outlier.

Suzuki can be better in every way but if CC is constantly challenging for the Richard, he’s the more valuable asset. Trottier was more complete than Bossy. Same with Oates and - maybe Francis. But those wingers were scoring machines. Can’t understate how valuable it is to have those scorers. When you’re down in the game you NEED a guy like that.

Looking at this year's top skaters/producers...
Thompson
Kucherov
Tkachuk
Hintz

All guys that took a few pro years before climbing into the elite space. It's the same every year. The MCD/Crosby generational guys that are superstars by 21-22 is more the exception

Elite scorers are incredibly valuable, no argument there. Elite #1 C are more valuable, as are elite #1D, imo. Agree to disagree

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Looking at this year's top skaters/producers...
Thompson
Kucherov
Tkachuk
Hintz

All guys that took a few pro years before climbing into the elite space. It's the same every year. The MCD/Crosby generational guys that are superstars by 21-22 is more the exception

Elite scorers are incredibly valuable, no argument there. Elite #1 C are more valuable, as are elite #1D, imo. Agree to disagree

Superstars are more valuable than non superstars. The position doesn’t matter.

Would you take Lemaire over Lafleur?

 

[yianik]

Voted Suzuki, but obviously happy the Habs have both of them and a coach that is able to get the most out of their games.

Since MSL took over:

Suzuki - 62 gp, 26 goals, 62 points
Caufield - 62 gp, 36 goals, 58 points.

It’s been a long time since the Habs had two forwards producing this many points and goals.

We are , and should be grateful to have them. At the same time its bloody pathetic that we haven't had a ppg guy since Kovalev and before him Damphousse ? Again, not just poor drafting and development, it has been the culture ingrained over decades by defensive minded coaches and GMs to play this anti- flying Frenchmen style of horrid hockey.

 

[Miller Time]

That’s big enough.

I sincerely hope you are right, because if in 18 months CC is that much better than Suzuki is today, we're talking generational/HOF winger. I love the optimism!

 

[Miller Time]

Superstars are more valuable than non superstars. The position doesn’t matter.

Would you take Lemaire over Lafleur?

Right now there is little reason to assert CC will be more of a superstar than Suzuki... So that's a moot point.

Lafleur or Beliveau?

That's a more realistic "best case" comparison if we assume both players maximize their potential.

Obviously if one doesn't believe Suzuki will improve from this year and that CC will improve significantly, then the "pick" is clear.

 

[Banjo Cat]

Say what? Good Lord, Ovi was the biggest pouting baby is the league for the first 1/2 of his career. I used to just get wild watching him pout as soon as they got down, especially in the playoffs. To his credit he grew up.

While I would probably pick Crosby as well, I find it kind of ironic that you are criticizing Ovi for pouting while comparing him to Crosby. Crosby is the king of whining and pouting. The Cindy Crybaby moniker was well-earned.

 

[1909]

Superstars are more valuable than non superstars. The position doesn’t matter.

Would you take Lemaire over Lafleur?

We have to chose one or the other in this poll. For the actual Habs team, a centerman of Suzuki's caliber is totally the best asset to start with. But we are lucky to have both Suzuki and Caufield. So this poll is totally insignificant in actual circumstances. You are the one who started it. Are you surprised by the results ? And Lafleur was a more complete player than Caufield will ever be. You cannot compare these guys at all.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

We have to chose one or the other in this poll. For the actual Habs team, a centerman of Suzuki's caliber is totally the best asset to start with. But we are lucky to have both Suzuki and Caufield. So this poll is totally insignificant in actual circumstances. You are the one who started it. Are you surprised by the results ? And Lafleur was a more complete player than Caufield will ever be. You cannot compare these guys at all.

I’m trying to unpack this… the poll is irrelevant? Well, yeah… in terms of the team this entire forum is irrelevant. It’s a place to discuss hockey. That’s why we’re here. It has no impact on the team itself but nobody ever claimed it did.

We are lucky to have both? Uh yeah…

Am I surprised at the results? Somewhat. I knew people would take Suzuki because he’s the better player right now. I also know that some people get way too hung up on position. What I am surprised about is the margin of victory. It’s like ten to one in favour of Suzuki. Personally I think that’s insane.

As for Lafleur being more complete… sure, I agree. I was simply using it as an example that position isn’t everything. Obviously I don’t think CC is ever going to be Gordon Howe.

I think CC will be in the same vein as a Bossy. Good offensive skills with an incredible shot. I think he’s going to rack up goals. The kid is really good and I think if we do this poll again in three years you’ll see radically different results. But it’s fun to see where people’s heads are at now.

 

[1909]

I’m trying to unpack this… the poll is irrelevant? Well, yeah… in terms of the team this entire forum is irrelevant. It’s a place to discuss hockey. That’s why we’re here. It has no impact on the team itself but nobody ever claimed it did.

We are lucky to have both? Uh yeah…

Am I surprised at the results? Somewhat. I knew people would take Suzuki because he’s the better player right now. I also
know that some people get way too hung up on position. What I am surprised about is the margin of victory. It’s like ten to one in favour of Suzuki. Personally I think that’s insane.

As for Lafleur being more complete… sure, I agree. I was simply using it as an example that position isn’t everything. Obviously I don’t think CC is ever going to be Gordon Howe.

I think CC will be in the same vein as a Bossy. Good offensive skills with an incredible shot. I think he’s going to rack up goals. The kid is really good and I think if we do this poll again in three years you’ll see radically different results. But it’s fun to see where people’s heads are at now.

Caufield will be able to be like Bossy ???? Different eras. Bossy was able to perform at that rate because ALSO of Trottier and Gillies (and Potvin in the backend) transporting the puck, battling hard in the corners and-or feeding him passes. Suzuki will be instrumental to Caufield's sucesses. Bossy was of course awesome with his shot and positioning. Great scorer IQ !

What amazed me the most with Caufield is that he is fearless despite his size, and knows where to go and be on the ice. Slaf can surely learn a couple of things from him.

But I am crying thinking about a B. Tkatchuk-Suzuki-Caufield 1st line.......

 

[Tetragrammaton]

Love Caufield, but I'm taking Patrice Bergeron heavy. Yes I said it, I think he will be better than Bergeron.