Suzuki vs Caufield - Pick one to build with

[Tetragrammaton]

We’d give it a day.

I think it’s going to be fun looking back on this in a few years though.

It's a good thread don't lock it. Even if the scale is tipping heavily, it's still a very valid question and a great discussion. Many of us who voted Suzuki had to think about it for awhile.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Caufield will be able to be like Bossy ???? Different eras. Bossy was able to perform at that rate because ALSO of Trottier and Gillies (and Potvin in the backend) transporting the puck, battling hard in the corners and-or feeding him passes. Suzuki will be instrumental to Caufield's sucesses. Bossy was of course awesome with his shot and positioning. Great scorer IQ !

Stylistically he will be similar to Bossy. I made that pretty clear.

And yes, Bossy had Trottier… that’s been discussed throughout the thread.

What amazed me the most with Caufield is that he is fearless despite his size, and knows where to go and be on the ice. Slaf can surely learn a couple of things from him.

But I am crying thinking about a B. Tkatchuk-Suzuki-Caufield 1st line.......

He’ll never be Gordie Howe, Ovechkin or Bobby Hull. He doesn’t have the flare of Kane or Lafleur. But he’s shiftier than Brett Hull was and I think Bossy is a good comparison.

Yes he and Suzuki will make a good team but I see more upside in CC.

 

[OldCraig71]

You can't just build with one or the other. Hockey is a team game, see Colorado. If Slaf eventually gets his big head out of his ass and becomes a mix of Hossa and Lindros we will have something. We also need a Makar lite type of defender and then things can get serious.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I sincerely hope you are right, because if in 18 months CC is that much better than Suzuki is today, we're talking generational/HOF winger. I love the optimism!

Well, don’t forget that I thought Chris Higgins was going to be a 40 goal guy so it’s not like I haven’t been really wrong before.

But CC has a pedigree that is outstanding and he’s already producing at 21. I think at minimum he’ll have a few 50 goal years.

Many players take a big jump when they hit 23, 24. I see no reason why CC wouldn’t be significantly better two seasons from now. He’s nowhere near his prime yet.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You can't just build with one or the other. Hockey is a team game, see Colorado. If Slaf eventually gets his big head out of his ass and becomes a mix of Hossa and Lindros we will have something. We also need a Makar lite type of defender and then things can get serious.

Nobody is saying you can build with only one player…. But yeah I agree if we add more pieces we could be scary. It’s a good young group to start with.

Of course now we have to think about a goalie too.

 

[CHwest]

While I would probably pick Crosby as well, I find it kind of ironic that you are criticizing Ovi for pouting while comparing him to Crosby. Crosby is the king of whining and pouting. The Cindy Crybaby moniker was well-earned.

I have never seen Crosby quit on his team, yes he's whines a lot but never quit. I watched Ovie quit numerous times in the first half or so of his career.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Right now there is little reason to assert CC will be more of a superstar than Suzuki... So that's a moot point.

Sorry I missed this.

There’s definitely reason to believe it. CC’s history is one of breaking records. And at 21 he’s pacing for close to 50. I don’t see how that doesn’t indicate superstar potential.

 

[Redux91]

I believe Suzuki tops out as a 40g 60a ish man, very similar to his OHL production
And I believe Caufield tops as a 50g 40a man, if both hit their ceilings.

So it's really up to preference at that point?

There isn't a doubt in my mind Suzuki reaches that ceiling.
But I'll believe Caufields ceiling when I SEE it since his Forte is the biggest Stat of them all : Goals
The hardest thing to come by

It looks great early, and 40 goal seasons are a given honestly
It's just about, will he ever hit that 50g sacred milestone
And if he DOES, does that still make him "better" than Ceiling Suzuki?

This is why I go with Nick for this particular "debate"

 

[Theodore450]

Obviously Suzuki

 

[Redux91]

Sorry I missed this.

There’s definitely reason to believe it. CC’s history is one of breaking records. And at 21 he’s pacing for close to 50. I don’t see how that doesn’t indicate superstar potential.

Ok but how does pacing for 40+g and 90 points NOT = superstar for Nick..?

 

[OldCraig71]

Nobody is saying you can build with only one player…. But yeah I agree if we add more pieces we could be scary. It’s a good young group to start with.

Of course now we have to think about a goalie too.

I don't think that we need a CP-level goalie. I have always wanted a strong top 6 and a solid D core, the goalie can be good but not great. Surround him with talent and good things will happen. MB did things backward, we should have won a cup but the man had no team-building abilities and that is why CP was wasted.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Ok but how does pacing for 40+g and 90 points NOT = superstar for Nick..?

90 point players aren’t superstars. They are number one centers.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don't think that we need a CP-level goalie. I have always wanted a strong top 6 and a solid D core, the goalie can be good but not great. Surround him with talent and good things will happen. MB did things backward, we should have won a cup but the man had no team-building abilities and that is why CP was wasted.

CP level goalies will be impossible to find. It would be great to get one because at a minimum you’ll probably find your way to the finals sooner or later but I don’t think it will happen for us.

I just hope we don’t turn into Philly - a club that was always really good but goaltending prevented them from winning anything.

 

[70Stang]

Suzuki makes everyone around him better and plays in all situations. Suzuki drives the play and Caufeild is developing that part of his game. For me currently Suzuki is the bench mark for contracts on Mtl and no way should #22 be getting more than Suzuki. They both compliment each other real good and that type of chemistry can be hard to find. I guess the truest test might be if Caufeild is moved to another line. That might provide us more information.

 

[OldCraig71]

CP level goalies will be impossible to find. It would be great to get one because at a minimum you’ll probably find your way to the finals sooner or later but I don’t think it will happen for us.

I just hope we don’t turn into Philly - a club that was always really good but goaltending prevented them from winning anything.

Montreal has a way of turning average goalies into very good ones. Keep the faith.

 

[Rapala]

Players progress.
Players with the work ethic & track record of both these kids are all but locks to improve, significantly, in their early 20's.

Your critiques aren't wrong, but assuming they aren't aware of them & won't make strides to improve them is, imo.

Is Marchand a superstar? What about at 22? Just one of many examples to look at.

Well I had hoped Suzuki would work on his first step over the summer but I don't see that was the case. He is deceptively fast but not explosively fast. Caufield has much more to work on IMO. Superstar status is hard to achieve.

 

[Banjo Cat]

I have never seen Crosby quit on his team, yes he's whines a lot but never quit. I watched Ovie quit numerous times in the first half or so of his career.

That's a fair point you make there. Can't disagree with that.

 

[Banjo Cat]

90 point players aren’t superstars. They are number one centers.

There are ways to win without superstars. You have to have a talent, but you don't necessarily need to have Maurice Richard contenders. I'd say based on their play right now, Suzuki is more of the guy a team needs. Especially when you phrase it with the words "build around". Suzuki (and I am kind of hesitant to say this because it' still early in his career) strikes me more as a guy you build around. At least based on his play right now. Suzuki makes everything happen. Suzuki is scoring. Suzuki creates stufff. Suzuki wins those shootouts. Suzuki is young, and he is shouldering the job of captaining the team. He is stable. And competitive. You build things on a foundation. And Suzuki screams foundation to me more than Caufield.

 

[Banjo Cat]

90 point players aren’t superstars. They are number one centers.

That might be true. But that's because superstars are generally defined as those guys who score all the goals. If lets say Suzuki's prime is a few 30 and 40 goal seasons, along with creating the opportunities for others to score. Maybe that should be considered a superstar. I mean what in the end is more valuable. It's arguable that even if Suzuki doesn't score all the goals, he will be a major reason they happened, and also arguable that he will likely prevent more goals being scored against us.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

That might be true. But that's because superstars are generally defined as those guys who score all the goals. If lets say Suzuki's prime is a few 30 and 40 goal seasons, along with creating the opportunities for others to score. Maybe that should be considered a superstar. I mean what in the end is more valuable. It's arguable that even if Suzuki doesn't score all the goals, he will be a major reason they happened, and also arguable that he will likely prevent more goals being scored against us.

It depends what peoples definition of a superstar is.

To me it’s no different than a franchise player, roughly the top 10-15 players in the league.

Suzuki doesn’t fit my definition of a superstar.

Prime Carey Price was a superstar, our last superstar before that would be Roy, and before that Lafleur/Robinson.

Suzuki likely lands more in the realm of Peak Subban/Kovalev/Koivu/Damphousse types. Star player for sure, but a notch below the MacKinnon’s and Draisaitls of the world.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That might be true. But that's because superstars are generally defined as those guys who score all the goals. If lets say Suzuki's prime is a few 30 and 40 goal seasons, along with creating the opportunities for others to score. Maybe that should be considered a superstar. I mean what in the end is more valuable. It's arguable that even if Suzuki doesn't score all the goals, he will be a major reason they happened, and also arguable that he will likely prevent more goals being scored against us.

What makes a player a superstar is when they can do things others can't. People are confusing number one center with superstar. YES I think Suzuki will be a legit number one - as of this year he probably already is. But a superstar comes in with something you can't find anywhere else. A rare talent that separates him from others.

By the time he gets to his prime, CC will be able to score 50 without Suzuki. Put him with say... Dach and he'll do it. He's scored wherever he's gone and he's already doing it at a very young age. Wait til he hits his peak.

 

[Miller Time]

Well I had hoped Suzuki would work on his first step over the summer but I don't see that was the case. He is deceptively fast but not explosively fast. Caufield has much more to work on IMO. Superstar status is hard to achieve.

Agree on the last 2 points.

As for the Suzuki comment, I would bet that this was part of his offseason focus... Some improvements take longer than others to bear fruit.

Consistency and commitment to improvement and offseason work is what separates the progress players make through their 20's (& beyond)... Lots of evidence that Suzuki is cut from the mould of the very best in those departments, time will tell how much that translates to successive performance improvements. So far, so good.

 

[Miller Time]

Sorry I missed this.

There’s definitely reason to believe it. CC’s history is one of breaking records. And at 21 he’s pacing for close to 50. I don’t see how that doesn’t indicate superstar potential.

At 17 months older, Suzuki is pacing the same goal total and 25 more points (~100 vs 75).

Completely moot beyond personal preference.

Breaking junior point records is about as reliable as draft position for predicting superstar status... Where were the two drafted again

 

[JianYang]

From a team success perspective, the center is typically the most important peice to a championship team.

Suzuki stirs the drink.

 

[Miller Time]

90 point players aren’t superstars. They are number one centers.

Weird take.

Now do 98pt/45g 2 way C's