Suzuki vs Caufield - Pick one to build with

[Habs Halifax]

Caufield's ability to score goals is as much a gimmick as

Patrick Mahomes ability to throw a ball
Aaron Judge ability to hit a baseball
Lebron James ability to score a basket
Messi's ability to strike a ball

This question of Suzuki vs Caufield is an odd one and one only Habs fans could be concerned with.

But while I do agree Suzuki is the more valuable player because his game is more rounded.

Framing Caufield's goal scoring ability like it just grows on trees is weird coming from Habs fans who haven't had a player have the ability to score/shoot like Caufield can since....probably Stephane Richer.

What about Suzuki's ability to score goals this season with his snips? He's scored some pretty impressive goals too and his shooting % is pretty much the best in the NHL for players who are playing more than 15 min a game.

Yeah, Caufield is scoring impressive goals but where is the talk about Suzuki's sniping ability?

 

[Bombshell11]

I don't believe anybody is calling them a Superstar though right? They can be in the group behind the top tier guys like McDavid, Makar, MacKinnon, Matthews, etc.

OP called Caulfield a Superstar Winger

 

[BLONG7]

I'm offended Evans isn't included here.

And Drouin............

 

[MonkeyBusiness]

Suzuki has a lot more tools at his disposition than Caufield and he seems to keep adding facets to his game. He never looks out of place versus any line and is just being dominant offensively. They both complement each other greatly, though, and boy am I glad to have both.

No it’s not. Come on.

I believe Suzuki is a rare breed in that he's a sort of a new-age Bergeron and ROR type of player; he's not going to blow you away with anything he does but he's just so supremely smart out there, and you have to account for his tremendous skill. I think his offensive ceiling is even higher than Bergeron but he likely won't be as defensively gifted as Patrice is.

You certainly have a few players whose wrist shots and one-timers are impeccable: Laine, Debrincat, Guentzel and the other elite goal-scorers that everyone and their grandmother knows. Maybe the three that I named aren't as deadly as Caufield, but our young sniper still hasn't proven himself to be in the elite category yet. Whereas, in my opinion, Suzuki is blossoming into an elite all-around phenomenal player. I think his skill-set might be rarer than a unidimensional sniper.

 

[Habs Halifax]

OP called Caulfield a Superstar Winger

Ah K. I didn't see that. Poor word of choice. He's an elite winger

 

[417]

Playing with Suzuki and Dach, not Lehkonen and Shaw.

Sigh.

Suzuki's most commonly used linemates

2019-2020 (rookie year): Lehkonen & Domi (who finished with 72pts)
2020-2021: Drouin & Anderson

Not sure why you brought up Shaw, since he last played with the Habs in the 2018-19 season.

He never ever played with Nick Suzuki.

I never shitted on CC. I said he was good but Suzuki is and was better. I actually look at context rather than stat watch.

Ok maybe that was the wrong word to use. But you keep framing Suzuki's first 2 years as much better than what Caufield's shown so far and it's completely false.

Dude... click the link I sent you lol, it's double this 30-35 game you are claiming. Quit being so stubborn.

It's genuinely not my fault anymore if you can't understand that at this point because I've explained it so many times now. You misunderstood yet still arguing when I cleared it up for you.

What does Galchenyuk have to do with anything?? lol

You're comparing the production of a player in his 4th year (Galchenyuk) to a player whose just wrapping up his 2nd year (Caufield).

Like I said when you originally brought up Galchenyuk...it's neither here nor there.

I don't need to click on information which is irrelevant to the discussion.

Unless you want to compare Caufield's first 2 years to Galchenyuk's first 2 years (tip, don't do this), then I don't see what the point is?

In regards to linemate quality, not ice time. I've literally never talked about ice time but I was talking about linemate quality...

Who cares...he averaged 18:25 per game his rookie year.

He wasn't playing those minutes with Austin Watson and Parker Kelly fam!

 

[417]

Yes because I agree with that! The "specifically from February 9th" is the argument that I don't completely agree with because it's isolating part of the season which is why I said doesn't mean much, I have never discredited his goalscoring.

This was literally just a footnote to the many arguments i've made.

It's not like I made it as a stand alone.

Notice how I said that to your February 9th argument and not the career goal totals. It clearly shows that I was questioning that specific argument rather than minimizing scoring goals...

But that's not ALL i wrote in that post.

Anyways, that's fine, we can move off that particular point as it wasn't made as anything more than an added footnote.

Was never the crux of my argument.

Though at this point, that number is beginning to stand on its own...this ain't no Galchenyuk-like hot streak to end a year when there's not pressure type thing.

He's played 122 total NHL games (regular season and playoffs) and he's got 45 goals in that span...which includes a 1 for 30 stretch playing for arguably one of the worst head coaches to have have ever coached.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Suzuki because he's always progressing. His passing plays is out of this chart and he will be a great leader. Also he's a center and he's miles better defensively than Caufield

 

[417]

What about Suzuki's ability to score goals this season with his snips? He's scored some pretty impressive goals too and his shooting % is pretty much the best in the NHL for players who are playing more than 15 min a game.

Yeah, Caufield is scoring impressive goals but where is the talk about Suzuki's sniping ability?

Suzuki is a much more selective shooter and i'm not disparaging his ability to score goals.

I don't personally think his shooting % is going to drastically change much because as i've mentioned, he's a selective shooter, he almost exclusively, only shoots high % shots that have a likelihood of going in.

Caufield's a volume shooter who scores at a much higher clip than the volume suggests he should.

But when it comes to "goal scoring ability", which includes all of the potential variations of shot, velocity, accuracy, deception, one timer, etc.

I'm sorry, Caufield's a clear level above.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Crosby lite or Ovechkin lite, pick one to build with.

Caufield isn't comparable to Ovechkin. Physicality is a big part of Ovy's game, and Caufield brings none of that.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Suzuki is a much more selective shooter and i'm not disparaging his ability to score goals.

I don't personally think his shooting % is going to drastically change much because as i've mentioned, he's a selective shooter, he almost exclusively, only shoots high % shots that have a likelihood of going in.

Caufield's a volume shooter who scores at a much higher clip than the volume suggests he should.

But when it comes to "goal scoring ability", which includes all of the potential variations of shot, velocity, accuracy, deception, one timer, etc.

I'm sorry, Caufield's a clear level above.

His shooting % this year is well above average at 28.6%. Selective shooter but he's showing sniping ability this year. More than in years prior. I don't think there is enough talk about this area of his game we are seeing this season.

You can be sorry if you want but the point here is Suzuki is not that far behind Caufield in terms of scoring this season. You're missing the point. Suzuki didn't show scoring ability like that before so are we miss calculating how he improved in that area?

Matthews wins the rocket last year and takes away the MVP from McDavid. McDavid is like oh yeah... hold my beer

 

[The Great Weal]

Sigh.

Suzuki's most commonly used linemates

2019-2020 (rookie year): Lehkonen & Domi (who finished with 72pts)
2020-2021: Drouin & Anderson

Not sure why you brought up Shaw, since he last played with the Habs in the 2018-19 season.

He never ever played with Nick Suzuki.

Dude come on man. Domi had his 72 points year before Suzuki was even in the league! You're gonna tell me that those 4 guys are even comparable to Suzuki and Dach?

Also I apologize about bringing up Shaw, I thought he played with Suzuki, I was thinking about someone else. Just like how you were wrong about Domi having 72 points with Suzuki.

Ok maybe that was the wrong word to use. But you keep framing Suzuki's first 2 years as much better than what Caufield's shown so far and it's completely false.

Not when you take into account the context as well.

What does Galchenyuk have to do with anything?? lol

You're comparing the production of a player in his 4th year (Galchenyuk) to a player whose just wrapping up his 2nd year (Caufield).

Like I said when you originally brought up Galchenyuk...it's neither here nor there.

I don't need to click on information which is irrelevant to the discussion.

It's not irrelevant, you're making a big case about how since "February 9th" is a legitimate argument when Galchenyuk and his nearly 70 games (not 30-35 which is what you were dead wrong about) when you cherry pick dates did the same and it proved to not mean anything.

Who cares...he averaged 18:25 per game his rookie year.

He wasn't playing those minutes with Austin Watson and Parker Kelly fam!

Quality of linemates make a HUGE difference. Also you saying "who cares" when discussing linemate quality means that you think quality of linemates don't mean anything and are worthless, a player will put up the same point totals regardless of who he's playing with right? It would be the same thing you said to me regarding this false claim that goalscoring doesn't mean much.

 

[417]

His shooting % this year is well above average at 28.6%. Selective shooter but he's showing sniping ability this year. More than in years prior. I don't think there is enough talk about this area of his game we are seeing this season.

I've often talked about his ability to score using his shot on the PP because you can never tell if he's shooting or passing. HIs motion is the same every time and that's what catches a lot of goalies off guard.

He's a great player, our best player. Not much more I can say that I haven't already.

I put him in the Markov class and if you know me, you know that I place no skater above The General in my last 30 odd years of watching the Habs.

You can be sorry if you want but the point here is Suzuki is not that far behind Caufield in terms of scoring this season. You're missing the point. Suzuki didn't show scoring ability like that before so are we miss calculating how he improved in that area?

I'm missing no point.

I just don't agree that he's as good of a goal scorer as Caufield.

That's not a slight.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Love Goal Caulifield, but the answer is Suzuki and it’s not close.

 

[LaP]

Outside of a few exceptions centers always win.

 

[417]

Dude come on man. Domi had his 72 points year before Suzuki was even in the league! You're gonna tell me that those 4 guys are even comparable to Suzuki and Dach?

Sorry I wrote that wrong, Suzuki's most commonly used linemates his 2nd year was Lehkonen & Domi, but it was the year Domi had 44pts, not 72.

Looked at the wrong line.

Point still stands though. Not like he was playing with scrubs.

Also I apologize about bringing up Shaw, I thought he played with Suzuki, I was thinking about someone else. Just like how you were wrong about Domi having 72 points with Suzuki.

All good. Ditto.

Not when you take into account the context as well.

Sure you can argue context but clearly...Caufield's got some arguments too. It's not as black and white as you're making it seem.

Statistically, which is often what drives contract negotiations, he's been better thought 102 NHL games than Suzuki was.

That much is undeniable.

It's not irrelevant, you're making a big case about how since "February 9th" is a legitimate argument when Galchenyuk and his nearly 70 games (not 30-35 which is what you were dead wrong about) when you cherry pick dates did the same and it proved to not mean anything.

I never made a big case, it was ONE of SEVERAL arguments I made. You chose to make it the focus on your discussion and then brought up Galchenyuk.

But the latter was in his 4th year, circumstances aren't quite the same.

Quality of linemates make a HUGE difference. Also you saying "who cares" when discussing linemate quality means that you think quality of linemates don't mean anything and are worthless, a player will put up the same point totals regardless of who he's playing with right? It would be the same thing you said to me regarding this

Agree to disagree here, better to focus on the discussion...I already feel dirty for speaking about the Sens so much.

 

[Matthew McConaughay]

That's stupid, we need both, they're like a pair of gloves.

 

[Scriptor]

Superstar winger over number one centre for sure. I like Suzuki a lot but CC is going to be the better player.

Not close in my opinion.

It's, in a way, the Ovechkin or Crosby question. Crosby every time, even though Ovechkin might become the all-time leading goal-scorer and despite the fact Crosby was such a cry-baby earlier on in his career.

 

[The Great Weal]

Sorry I wrote that wrong, Suzuki's most commonly used linemates his 2nd year was Lehkonen & Domi, but it was the year Domi had 44pts, not 72.

Looked at the wrong line.

Point still stands though. Not like he was playing with scrubs.

He doesn't need to be playing with scrubs, but there was a large difference in linemate quality. This is also with Suzuki playing with Thompson and Cousins/Weal almost as much as playing with Lehkonen and Domi in the first year.

Statistically, which is often what drives contract negotiations, he's been better thought 102 NHL games than Suzuki was.

That much is undeniable.

Teams will look at the context for sure and not solely the stats. This is not to say that CC won't be getting Suzuki money, but all parties will know that Suzuki didn't have great linemates to produce with and CC does.

I never made a big case, it was ONE of SEVERAL arguments I made. You chose to make it the focus on your discussion and then brought up Galchenyuk.

That's the main argument I disagreed with because guys like Galchenyuk doing something similar and that showed nothing. I agreed with the rest.

 

[417]

He doesn't need to be playing with scrubs, but there was a large difference in linemate quality. This is also with Suzuki playing with Thompson and Cousins/Weal almost as much as playing with Lehkonen and Domi in the first year.

Lehkonen-Domi-Suzuki = 158 mins (Which was 2nd most used line on the Habs that year)

Cousins-Thompson-Suzuki = 68 mins (Which was 9th most used line on the Habs that year)

Teams will look at the context for sure and not solely the stats. This is not to say that CC won't be getting Suzuki money, but all parties will know that Suzuki didn't have great linemates to produce with and CC does.

Yep and that's why there's 2 sides to this negotiation.

Fans seem to only want to look at this from the teams point of view.

But i'm always "pro player" in these situations, I want players to maximize their earning and go for as much as they can get.

I think he's got a case to ask for 8.5M easy.

 

[OnTheRun]

But... Why do we need to choose between 2 things we already have?

 

[Revansky]

Considering they have similar production right now, i think you choose the more complete and more useful player, playing at the more important position aka Suzuki. Feels like Nick can carry other players better than Caufield and has a more important impact in the defensive zone.

Caufield need to produce at least 15 points more to be considered more important than Suzuki. Can it happen ? Maybe, but i don't see it for now.

 

[The Great Weal]

Lehkonen-Domi-Suzuki = 158 mins (Which was 2nd most used line on the Habs that year)

Cousins-Thompson-Suzuki = 68 mins (Which was 9th most used line on the Habs that year)

Suzuki played with Lehkonen and Domi 15.76% of the time.
He played with Cousins and Weal 7.33% of the time.
He played with Thompson and Cousins 6.95% of the time.

So with Domi and Lehkonen=15.76%

With Thompson/Weal and Cousins=14.28%

 

[MTL-rules]

Since we have both, why bother... We build with both.

 

[DAChampion]

But... Why do we need to choose between 2 things we already have?

To argue.