Suzuki vs Caufield - Pick one to build with

[Habs Halifax]

But you can get a Suzuki-lite and he’s still going to light it up. Put say… Plekanec with him and he’ll still score a crap ton of goals. Put a 2nd tier winger with Suzuki and I don’t think the results will be as good.

The reason for CC’s value is that it’s such a rare talent.

Suzuki's IQ/vision and 200' game as a center is just as rare as Caufield's shot.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Suzuki's IQ/vision and 200' game as a center is just as rare as Caufield's shot.

No it’s not. Come on.

 

[Rapala]

If they were split up who would have more effect. It is impossible to ignore Caufield's success hinges on Suzuki's ability to get him the puck at the opportune moment. We've seen Suzuki do that with just about anyone who gets open. I'm 100% sure we don't have another Suzuki on this team able to keep Cole fed and he won't do it on his own.

 

[The Great Weal]

What does who got sent to the minors have to do with anything? lol Were they supposed to expose Suzuki to waivers or something? lol

It showed that one struggled and the other was not NHL caliber.

Also Suzuki never had 2 great full seasons.

On pace for almost 50 points as a rookie and 60 in the following year. That's pretty good to me when you consider the fact that his linemates weren't great. Come on man, I know you know that Suzuki was great and showed a lot. The guy was our best player after Price in his rookie year for crying out loud and then again the following year.

Again, why are we talking about Galchenyuk?

Because it shows that compartmentalizing parts of a season is not a good indicator of success. I'm not saying that CC is going to become Galchenyuk, and I'm not saying that golascoring doesn't mean anything like you somehow claim. My whole point before all of this is that he shouldn't really get more than Suzuki. If he asks for it, you still request his ask unless of course he asks for Kaprizov money. Then you give him a shorter term deal like how Dallas did with Robertson. That's literally all there was to my point. If like Robertson CC explodes and becomes a Hart Trophy candidate (consistently), then sure you pay the man even 13 million if you need to.

Trying to argue he played with 3rd liners or was getting 3rd line ice time is again, completely irrelevant.

Stay on script man.

I've never brought up ice time, you did for some reason. You just misunderstood, but I said playing with 3rd liners (i.e not players you want in your top 6). It's very relevant, and you're going off script by bringing up ice time.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No it’s not. Come on.

I believe it is. If there is a gap, it's not tremendous. Both are rare attributes

 

[HabsForHire]

Two equally talented players, I go with the center over the winger

 

[The Great Weal]

Once more, your post there there for you to see it. I'm not putting words in your mouth.

I wrote "he's one of the NHL top goal scorers since last February 9th.

You responded "That doesn't mean much".

I'm just holding up the mirror, i'm not responsible for the reflection.

For the millionth time, I never said "GOALSCORING doesn't mean much". Breaking down parts of a season doesn't mean much as per the Galchenyuk example as to which you were dead wrong about thinking it was a 30 game sample. You are deliberately putting words in my mouth by claiming I said goalscoring doesn't mean much when you simply misunderstood. Unless you think Galchenyuk deserved to be paid like a top tier player for putting up points in that certain time span and ignoring the rest of his seasons?

I've explained it many times now but just to really simplify it for you:
Breaking down production based on a certain portion of the season doesn't mean much since there are cases like Galchenyuk. What will mean everything is if CC maintains his current pace for the remainder of the season. I have never said that goalscoring doesn't mean much, the putting up stats for a certain part of the season doesn't mean much.

Notice why I said "that doesn't mean much" in regards to your point starting with "since last February 9th" instead of your point about "his entire NHL career"? I mean this alone should be evident that I never said goalscoring doesn't mean much.

 

[Bombshell11]

I think both need to mature alot if they want to become "superstars" in the NHL they're not there yet. Its way to soon to suggest either is a superstar.

Also i think Suzuki has handled the Captaincy pretty well so far.

 

[peate]

The question Is who do you pick to build tour team around..
Suzuki is your foundation, Caufied is the added feature.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think both need to mature alot if they want to become "superstars" in the NHL they're not there yet. Its way to soon to suggest either is a superstar.

Also i think Suzuki has handled the Captaincy pretty well so far.

I don't believe anybody is calling them a Superstar though right? They can be in the group behind the top tier guys like McDavid, Makar, MacKinnon, Matthews, etc.

 

[peate]

The poll will be very biased towards position and experience.

The question should be asked once they both have fully bloomed.*

*Blossomed

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

But you can get a Suzuki-lite and he’s still going to light it up. Put say… Plekanec with him and he’ll still score a crap ton of goals. Put a 2nd tier winger with Suzuki and I don’t think the results will be as good.

The reason for CC’s value is that it’s such a rare talent.

I strongly disagree, I love Caufield but he is basically a gimmick compared to a complete player like Suzuki. There is absolutely no doubt that Suzuki has done much more for Caufield than vice versa. How may open net one timers has Caufield had from Suzuki passes and Suzuki has flat out created his own goals and sniped the opposing goaltender more than Cole has this season.

Like I said, I really love Caufield but I feel like Suzuki is getting the Danault treatment in this case as he carried Gallagher and Tatar but all people could see or talk about was who scores the most goals.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The question Is who do you pick to build tour team around..
Suzuki is your foundation, Caufied is the added feature.

It's fun to ponder and chat about it but lets face it, you build around 6 or more guys, not 1 or 2. If you are building with Caufield with no Suzuki or Suzuki with no Caufield, you don't have a good rebuild

1 Center
2 Wingers
1 Defenseman
1 Goalie
----------------
= 6 players

Point, Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Vasi

Blueprint can be altered a bit from that but you get the point. Avs core is a bit smaller with MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen. The have supported their core with very good depth. However, they do now have a massive hole at center with Kadri gone.

 

[Rapala]

It's got to be very hard to vote against the player who has the wherewithal to look up at a dying clock and realize with 4 seconds left he has enough time to fire a pass to an open winger instead of taking an ineffective shot. That poise blew me away as much as his playoff performances.

 

[417]

It showed that one struggled and the other was not NHL caliber.

What? lol

The entire team was struggling, INCLUDING Nick Suzuki.

They sent down one of the few players who didn't need waivers.

What's the point? lol

On pace for almost 50 points as a rookie and 60 in the following year. That's pretty good to me when you consider the fact that his linemates weren't great. Come on man, I know you know that Suzuki was great and showed a lot. The guy was our best player after Price in his rookie year for crying out loud and then again the following year.

Both of which Caufield has and is on the verge of surpassing.

Also, last thing i'm trying to do is disparage Suzuki...he's amazing and when people were complaining about his contract extension, I was on there arguing that it would be considered a bargain soon enough.

But if Nick Suzuki's first 2 years impressed you, i'm not quite sure how you can shit on Caufield's first 2 seasons (which the 2nd year isn't complete yet).

He's outproducing Suzuki at goals and points at the same stage of their careers.

Because it shows that compartmentalizing parts of a season is not a good indicator of success. I'm not saying that CC is going to become Galchenyuk, and I'm not saying that golascoring doesn't mean anything like you somehow claim.

You Galchenyuk sample was about 30-35 games worth.

My Caufield sample is 102 games and counting.

Also, here's your ACTUAL QUOTE

This doesn't really mean much despite being a cool stat. Transferring production from a portion of a previous season to this current season is not legitimate. Reminds me of the days where Galchenyuk was seen as an elite player because of how he kept racking up points after his crazy goalscoring streak.

You said it, own up to it.

I'm not making it up.

My whole point before all of this is that he shouldn't really get more than Suzuki. If he asks for it, you still request his ask unless of course he asks for Kaprizov money. Then you give him a shorter term deal like how Dallas did with Robertson. That's literally all there was to my point. If like Robertson CC explodes and becomes a Hart Trophy candidate (consistently), then sure you pay the man even 13 million if you need to.

Giving him a short term deal like the Stars gave Robertson is a terrible idea.

Doing so because you want to be dogmatic about some imaginary and self-imposed salary cap figure, is an even worse idea.

I've never brought up ice time, you did for some reason. You just misunderstood, but I said playing with 3rd liners (i.e not players you want in your top 6). It's very relevant, and you're going off script by bringing up ice time.

Sigh.

You said he was used with 3rd liners.

Only Tkachuk played more minutes amongst Sens forwards that year.

Stop.

 

[the]

Too early to predict. Currently Suzuki has an advantage in the fact that he was drafted 2 years earlier.

Cauli-field just recently played his 100th game. Let's see how good he will become when he's played 300 games. Pretty crazy that he's still 21 years old.

Still plenty of room for Cauli-field to grow his game and become the better player.

Both are awesome choices.

 

[Rapala]

I don't believe anybody is calling them a Superstar though right? They can be in the group behind the top tier guys like McDavid, Makar, MacKinnon, Matthews, etc.

Let me check my profile...
aaaah it says our future stars. I will remove that at the end of this season should they keep up this pace.

 

[417]

For the millionth time, I never said "GOALSCORING doesn't mean much". Breaking down parts of a season doesn't mean much as per the Galchenyuk example as to which you were dead wrong about thinking it was a 30 game sample. You are deliberately putting words in my mouth by claiming I said goalscoring doesn't mean much when you simply misunderstood. Unless you think Galchenyuk deserved to be paid like a top tier player for putting up points in that certain time span and ignoring the rest of his seasons?

I've explained it many times now but just to really simplify it for you:
Breaking down production based on a certain portion of the season doesn't mean much since there are cases like Galchenyuk. What will mean everything is if CC maintains his current pace for the remainder of the season. I have never said that goalscoring doesn't mean much, the putting up stats for a certain part of the season doesn't mean much.

Notice why I said "that doesn't mean much" in regards to your point starting with "since last February 9th" instead of your point about "his entire NHL career"? I mean this alone should be evident that I never said goalscoring doesn't mean much.

You act like I haven't discussed the fact that through 102 NHL games, which AGAIN, represents the TOTALITY OF HIS CAREER, he's scored 41 goals.

Which only 3 Montreal Canadiens players have scored more over 102 NHL games and all 3 players are in the HoF.

 

[xX SEYF Xx]

Slick Nick quick stick the thick prick is obviously my pick

 

[Habs Halifax]

Too early to predict. Currently Suzuki has an advantage in the fact that he was drafted 2 years earlier.

Cauli-field just recently played his 100th game. Let's see how good he will become when he's played 300 games.

Still plenty of room for Cauli-field to grow his game and become the better player.

Both are awesome choices.

Isn't Suzuki sniping goals just as effective as Caufield so far this season? Seems to me that Suzuki is still developing and improving. His shot and vision seems to be improving. I'm sure Caufield is not done improving as well so we will see where they top out at.

Would be interesting if Suzuki had more goals than Caufield this season. I'd like to see some stats where we get to see how many goals Suzuki has scored with Caufield as the primary assist and vice versa

* With MSL... Suzuki has 26 goals, Caufield has 36
* So far this season, they both have 14 goals in 25 games.
* Suzuki has a 27.5% shooting % this season while Caufield is at 15.6% (91 shots vs 51).

Can they both get to 40+ goals? On pace for 46 at the moment.

 

[The Great Weal]

Both of which Caufield has and is on the verge of surpassing.

Playing with Suzuki and Dach, not Lehkonen and Shaw.

But if Nick Suzuki's first 2 years impressed you, i'm not quite sure how you can shit on Caufield's first 2 seasons (which the 2nd year isn't complete yet).

I never shitted on CC. I said he was good but Suzuki is and was better. I actually look at context rather than stat watch.

He's outproducing Suzuki at goals and points at the same stage of their careers.

You Galchenyuk sample was about 30-35 games worth.

My Caufield sample is 102 games and counting.

Dude... click the link I sent you lol, it's double this 30-35 game you are claiming. The Feb 9 argument isn't 102 games, it's 62 games as of today which is essentially the same as Galchenyuks. Quit being so stubborn.

Also, here's your ACTUAL QUOTE



You said it, own up to it.

I'm not making it up.

It's genuinely not my fault anymore if you can't understand that at this point because I've explained it so many times now. You misunderstood yet still arguing when I cleared it up for you.

You said he was used with 3rd liners.

In regards to linemate quality, not ice time. I've literally never talked about ice time but I was talking about linemate quality...

 

[417]

I strongly disagree, I love Caufield but he is basically a gimmick compared to a complete player like Suzuki. There is absolutely no doubt that Suzuki has done much more for Caufield than vice versa. How may open net one timers has Caufield had from Suzuki passes and Suzuki has flat out created his own goals and sniped the opposing goaltender more than Cole has this season.

Like I said, I really love Caufield but I feel like Suzuki is getting the Danault treatment in this case as he carried Gallagher and Tatar but all people could see or talk about was who scores the most goals.

Caufield's ability to score goals is as much a gimmick as

Patrick Mahomes ability to throw a ball
Aaron Judge ability to hit a baseball
Lebron James ability to score a basket
Messi's ability to strike a ball

This question of Suzuki vs Caufield is an odd one and one only Habs fans could be concerned with.

But while I do agree Suzuki is the more valuable player because his game is more rounded.

Framing Caufield's goal scoring ability like it just grows on trees is weird coming from Habs fans who haven't had a player have the ability to score/shoot like Caufield can since....probably Stephane Richer.

 

[The Great Weal]

You act like I haven't discussed the fact that through 102 NHL games, which AGAIN, represents the TOTALITY OF HIS CAREER, he's scored 41 goals.

Which only 3 Montreal Canadiens players have scored more over 102 NHL games and all 3 players are in the HoF.

Yes because I agree with that! The "specifically from February 9th" is the argument that I don't completely agree with because it's isolating part of the season which is why I said doesn't mean much, I have never discredited his goalscoring.

Notice how I said that to your February 9th argument and not the career goal totals. It clearly shows that I was questioning that specific argument rather than minimizing scoring goals...

 

[DAChampion]

Crosby lite or Ovechkin lite, pick one to build with.

 

[BLONG7]

The Habs finally have a couple of great up and coming offensive players coming up. Suzuki and Caufield are both exciting young players.

This debate has popped up in a player discussion thread and I thought it was an interesting enough discussion to have its own thread.

So, if you had to build your team with one of these two, who would you choose?

Suzuki or Caufield?

Both..............there is no way we need to only have one.
Every good team has two top tier guys, ala Crosby/Malkin Marner, and Metthews etc