Suzuki vs Caufield - Pick one to build with

[Belial]

You're right. But I'm keeping it open here because it's a cool discussion and it's the Montreal forum.

And if I'm wrong, believe me... I will be more than happy to repeat it in the years going forward. It's not like I haven't been wrong before. Like I said though, I think in a few years if we re-run this poll, the results will be pretty different.

I'm not suggesting closing it.

I think where you're wrong though is that you think Cole will become much better but for some reason think Suzuki is already done developing...

Suzuki is not that much older than Cole.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I mean, this is all 100% opinion until proven otherwise, and Caufield is obviously no Pierre Dagenais, but no I do not think Caufield scored as many goals with Plekanec as a centerman.

Absolutely.

I just think CC has the track record that Suzuki doesn't. And at 21 is already producing a crazy number of goals. He's going to improve.

I could be overhyping CC and underrating Suzuki. Hopefully it's more of the latter than the former. But I feel pretty confident that we've got a special player in CC. I really do think he's going to be the best forward we've had in a long, long time.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'm not suggesting closing it.

I think where you're wrong though is that you think Cole will become much better but for some reason think Suzuki is already done developing...

Suzuki is not that much older than Cole.

I think CC has more growing/improving runway than Suzuki does. Suzuki is entering his prime now. CC is just starting his NHL career.

 

[MasterD]

I think CC has more growing/improving runway than Suzuki does. Suzuki is entering his prime now. CC is just starting his NHL career.

Yes. Absolutely. Because Suzuki is the much more complete player right now!

Man, if Caufield can improve his passing, his D coverage, and add variety to his game (shooting a lot means lots of goals, but at some point can become easy to cover) then yes he COULD be better than Suzuki.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes. Absolutely. Because Suzuki is the much more complete player right now!

Man, if Caufield can improve his passing, his D coverage, and add variety to his game (shooting a lot means lots of goals, but at some point can become easy to cover) then yes he COULD be better than Suzuki.

He'll never be that complete.

But he's going to score a shit ton of goals.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Thanks for stopping by.

See you in three years.

Yep, where it’s just as obvious how wrong you were, but where you will continue to cling to the same tired arguments with 95% of the board telling you you are wrong. You’re no Nostradamus here. You are simply wrong and way too stubborn to admit it.

 

[jaffy27]

Absolutely.

I just think CC has the track record that Suzuki doesn't. And at 21 is already producing a crazy number of goals. He's going to improve.

I could be overhyping CC and underrating Suzuki. Hopefully it's more of the latter than the former. But I feel pretty confident that we've got a special player in CC. I really do think he's going to be the best forward we've had in a long, long time.

The best scorer I have no doubt, skies the limit, but best forward belongs to Suzuki and Suzuki alone. He owns the ice when he’s out there.

It’s like Suzi is the brains of the operation while Cole is the muscle.

 

[LesHabitants]

They are (so far) considerably better than Cody Glass and Cam York. But.... from the tank perspective we'd be in much better shape with the other two.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yep, where it’s just as obvious how wrong you were, but where you will continue to cling to the same tired arguments with 95% of the board telling you you are wrong. You’re no Nostradamus here. You are simply wrong and way too stubborn to admit it.

I’ll be more than happy to admit it if it comes to fruition. Nothing wrong with being wrong. I’ve been wrong before and I’ll be wrong again.

But I’ll at least wait to see if it’s proven out. I think CC will be the more valuable player in the long run. And I think in two years the poll will look a lot different than it is now.

And if not… I’ll just be wrong. No problem there.

As for Nostradamus, I’m pretty sure he’s the guy who predicted Tage Thompson. That wasn’t me.

 

[cphabs]

Yes.

Caufield is one of the very good goal scorers in the game already, but without a quality center putting the puck on his stick he’s not scoring as much.

Suzuki can do more by himself, and makes others better.

Is there a statistic on how many assists Suzuki has had from Caufield’s Goals? This season. Thanks in advance!

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Is there a statistic on how many assists Suzuki has had from Caufield’s Goals? This season. Thanks in advance!

Are you planning on ruining this guy's sunday?

 

[SlafySZN]

Yes.

Caufield is one of the very good goal scorers in the game already, but without a quality center putting the puck on his stick he’s not scoring as much.

Suzuki can do more by himself, and makes others better.

And Suzuki wouldn’t have those assists if not because of Cole. So it goes the other way too.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The best scorer I have no doubt, skies the limit, but best forward belongs to Suzuki and Suzuki alone. He owns the ice when he’s out there.

It’s like Suzi is the brains of the operation while Cole is the muscle.

Suzuki’s got great underlying numbers. No doubt a legit number one. Superstar? I don’t think so but maybe.

CC on the other hand I think hits close to 50 goals this year and consistently hits 40+ in the coming years. I think he’ll he’ll have some 50 goal years down the road and contend for the Richard.

That’s too valuable to pass up. As good as Suzuki is, his skill set is easier to find than an elite sniper. There are lots of strong two way centers in the league who put up great numbers. Crosby, Matthews, Bergeron, Kopitar… go down the list of number one centers. Most of them have a strong two way game.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Is there a statistic on how many assists Suzuki has had from Caufield’s Goals? This season. Thanks in advance!

Caufield assisted 5 of Suzuki's 14 goals
Suzuki assisted 7 of Caufield's 16 goals

They both had nine goals assisted by other players.

This whole notion of Suzuki being responsible for Caufield's production is just a fanboy narrative quickly turning to mythical status.

EDIT:

I went back to when MSL started last year:

Suzuki
64 games 26 goals 37 assists 63 points
Caufield
64 games 38 goals 22 assists 60 points

Suzuki assisted 14 of Cole's 38 goals (37%) and counts for 38% of his assists

Caufield assisted 12 of Nick's 26 goals (46%) and counts for 55% of his assists.

Of note, Caufield needs 12 goals in his next 18 games to have 50 in his last 82 games. Showing a tremendous pace for such a young age.

 

[Miller Time]

Caufield assisted 5 of Suzuki's 14 goals
Suzuki assisted 7 of Caufield's 16 goals

They both had nine goals assisted by other players.

This whole notion of Suzuki being responsible for Caufield's production is just a fanboy narrative quickly turning to mythical status.

Great, now spin the narrative to explain away the 11 vs 4 assists on each players stat line

Too much stat watching & not enough game watching is about the only way one could miss the impact Suzuki has on his linemates... Fanboy narratives indeed lol

 

[The Real Timo]

Hoffman!

 

[cphabs]

Great, now spin the narrative to explain away the 11 vs 4 assists on each players stat line

Too much stat watching & not enough game watching is about the only way one could miss the impact Suzuki has on his linemates... Fanboy narratives indeed lol

Incoming 16 GOALS in the next 20 games for Drouin… once he’s healthy and with Suzuki. I can’t wait.

 

[StCaufield]

Not sure why people wouldn’t take a future game breaking 50 goal scorer

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Great, now spin the narrative to explain away the 11 vs 4 assists on each players stat line

What do you even mean?

Too much stat watching & not enough game watching is about the only way one could miss the impact Suzuki has on his linemates... Fanboy narratives indeed lol

I watch every game. Please, stat watching. Build better arguments. They have a 3 point difference outside the 26 points they produced together, meaning they produce close to the same with other players.

Calling this stats watching means you're blind to the relevancy of the context of with and without/production.

If Suzuki was responsible for Caufield's production, you'd see a higher percentage of with than without, yet the reality is both can produce just as much without the other, obliterating the myth.

Also, transforming what I said into a denial of what Suzuki brings is a very poor strawman as I simply showed that they produce as much without each other.

I'm attacking the myth that Suzuki is responsible for Caufield's production. FULL STOP. If you can't recognize that and stoop to using strawmen arguments, guess what it makes you look like?

So instead of a lazy retort with strawmen arguments devoid of actual counter-arguments, do you have any facts to provide which contests my assertion that Suzuki isn't driving Caufield?

 

[Nedved]

There's something about Caufield. His talent in the offensive zone is the best we've had since Kovalev. I think he can hit 50, maybe even twice, in his career. With a complete team and a #1 defenseman that can move the puck like a Markov, I think he would hit 50 without a doubt. I feel like what we see with Suzuki is what we get no matter who we sprinkle around him. He's dynamic but I just love watching Caufield bury the puck.

 

[Miller Time]

So instead of a lazy retort with strawmen arguments devoid of actual counter-arguments, do you have any facts to provide which contests my assertion that Suzuki isn't driving Caufield?

I think you meant to reply to cphabs post

As for who drives Caufield, I didn't even realize he didn't have a car, I've got no idea who drives him.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I think you meant to reply to cphabs post

As for who drives Caufield, I didn't even realize he didn't have a car, I've got no idea who drives him.

No you quoted me with a direct reference to what I said. Either hone-up to what you said or clarify it.

 

[KevSkillz4]

There's something about Caufield. His talent in the offensive zone is the best we've had since Kovalev. I think he can hit 50, maybe even twice, in his career. With a complete team and a #1 defenseman that can move the puck like a Markov, I think he would hit 50 without a doubt. I feel like what we see with Suzuki is what we get no matter who we sprinkle around him. He's dynamic but I just love watching Caufield bury the puck.

Oh yeah. Caufield is electric at offensive zone. If Hutson reach his potential at NHL level, he is going that guy for Caufield on PP. I want Slafkovsky on PP with Caufield too!! That would be insane... (Farrell too)

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Oh yeah. Caufield is electric at offensive zone. If Hutson reach his potential at NHL level, he is going that guy for Caufield on PP. I want Slafkovsky on PP with Caufield too!! That would be insane... (Farrell too)

I have no idea what to think about Slaf. He’s got the size and is obviously talented but the track record isn’t there. I think he’s looked okay this year but his opportunities have been limited. I just don’t know what he’s going to turn out to be.

 

[KevSkillz4]

I have no idea what to think about Slaf. He’s got the size and is obviously talented but the track record isn’t there. I think he’s looked okay this year but his opportunities have been limited. I just don’t know what he’s going to turn out to be.

I really liked his yesterday game. He show that he got great shot on PP. At 5v5, sometimes he show his great hands. Tools and talent of a 1st overall pick is certainly there. I believe that he is going to product well in 2 years. If he play with Suzuki and Caufield on PP, points will be there, no doubt!