Suzuki vs Caufield - Pick one to build with

[Kudo Shinichi]

What makes you think Cole won't contribute more than points. He is smart enough, Strong enough, Just need to get faster.

Smart enough and strong enough to do what? He's still not going to be strong defensively, won't be used on the pk, won't be physical, won't win faceoffs, won't be a net front/grinder player, and won't be an enforcer.

He's just going to bring a lot of offense, and there's nothing wrong with that. Suzuki is more valuable because he will bring as much offense + do more stuffs.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Smart enough and strong enough to do what? He's still not going to be strong defensively, won't be used on the pk, won't be physical, won't win faceoffs, won't be a net front/grinder player, and won't be an enforcer.

He's just going to bring a lot of offense, and there's nothing wrong with that. Suzuki is more valuable because he will bring as much offense + do more stuffs.

Your last sentence is where you might be wrong. Cole has barely 100 games of season play. We have no idea of his max output.

On top of that, Byron can play PK and I don't see why it can't become true for Cole as his skating haa become better and imo will continue to get better. Also, Cole has become really good at puck retrieval so pretending he can't become a defensive force is wrong. Smaller players become good along the board by being better at picking the puck, not battling the body.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Smart enough and strong enough to do what? He's still not going to be strong defensively, won't be used on the pk, won't be physical, won't win faceoffs, won't be a net front/grinder player, and won't be an enforcer.

He's just going to bring a lot of offense, and there's nothing wrong with that. Suzuki is more valuable because he will bring as much offense + do more stuffs.

Trottier did more than Bossy. But Bossy was the more valuable player. Bossy consistently is ranked higher on all time lists and that’s despite him retiring at 30 with a bad back.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Yeah and that doesn’t make sense. CC is about to have a 40+ year as a 21 year old. That’s crazy.

As I said, my prediction is that in a few years if we re-run this poll, the results will be very different.

Perhaps it’s the wording of your poll - “build around”?
… if it were - “who will average more points”, the results might be more balanced.

Currently, NS is the top producer of the two and has more going for him outside the scoresheet. Sure, CC has more potential, being younger, but I haven’t read arguments that zero in on exactly what he has to work on to get to the next level - from 40+ to n.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Perhaps it’s the wording of your poll - “build around”?
… if it were - “who will average more points”, the results might be more balanced.

Currently, NS is the top producer of the two and has more going for him outside the scoresheet. Sure, CC has more potential, being younger, but I haven’t read arguments that zero in on exactly what he has to work on to get to the next level - from 40+ to n.

I worded it the way I wanted to. I didn’t want to skew it one way or the other.

As I said, I knew Suzuki would lead because he is the better player today. But the ratio is crazy. As I’ve said a few times, it will be interesting to revisit in a couple of years.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Regarding CC’s potential …

NHL players peak at 24-25, but the “curve” starts levelling off when they’re 22. CC turns 22 next month.

In his first 97 games before this season, CC scored at a 26 goal pace. If he keeps up his pace this season and scores 40+ (47) then it will likely be the biggest jump in production we’ll see out of him. He might peak in a couple seasons, but will start levelling off at 22.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Regarding CC’s potential …

NHL players peak at 24-25, but the “curve” starts levelling off when they’re 22. CC turns 22 next month.

In his first 97 games before this season, CC scored at a 26 goal pace. If he keeps up his pace this season and scores 40+ (47) then it will likely be the biggest jump in production we’ll see out of him. He might peak in a couple seasons, but will start levelling off at 22.

Suzuki is having his biggest jump in production at 23 and will be 24 in 6 months.

Production is related to many other factors than development.

Imo, we will see more leaps in production from both once we have a QB and the PP gets better.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Your last sentence is where you might be wrong. Cole has barely 100 games of season play. We have no idea of his max output.

On top of that, Byron can play PK and I don't see why it can't become true for Cole as his skating haa become better and imo will continue to get better. Also, Cole has become really good at puck retrieval so pretending he can't become a defensive force is wrong. Smaller players become good along the board by being better at picking the puck, not battling the body.

Caufield is below average defensively today. There's no reason to believe he will become a defensive force.
Byron had elite speed, was very smart, had a good stick, was aggressive, and had good defensive awareness.
Caufield isn't as good as Byron in any of these. Caufield avoids retrieving pucks when there's a chance of getting hit.
He's also 5'7 and has a short reach, so he doesn't cover a lot of ice.

Caufield wasn't being used on the pk in the NCAA and I'm sure he wasn't used there during his time with the USDP. He has no experience playing the pk.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Regarding CC’s potential …

NHL players peak at 24-25, but the “curve” starts levelling off when they’re 22. CC turns 22 next month.

In his first 97 games before this season, CC scored at a 26 goal pace. If he keeps up his pace this season and scores 40+ (47) then it will likely be the biggest jump in production we’ll see out of him. He might peak in a couple seasons, but will start levelling off at 22.

My hope is that if I’m wrong on this it’s because Suzuki turns out better than I expected. And that could very well be the case.

But I’ve heard people saying he’s already a dominant player - he’s 30th in league scoring.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Do we finally have good players or is scoring just up league wide? PPG + players of all ages all around the league like its nothing. Obv CC and Suzi are the best we've had in a while but its safe to say I don't know if they are putting up PPG on a therrien team in 2012 for example. I don't see both as ppg players/superstars yet personally. Both are def all stars right now. But when the best players in the league are putting up 100 points in their sleep is ppg as impressive as it was before?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Do we finally have good players or is scoring just up league wide? PPG + players of all ages all around the league like its nothing. Obv CC and Suzi are the best we've had in a while but its safe to say I don't know if they are putting up PPG on a therrien team in 2012 for example. I don't see both as ppg players/superstars yet personally. Both are def all stars right now. But when the best players in the league are putting up 100 points in their sleep is ppg as impressive as it was before?

Both.

Suzuki and CC are good pieces to build around but scoring seems to be up. At the end of the day a player is dominant relative to others. I think top ten is a tall order. I don’t think Suzuki will ever get there but it’s not out of the realm of possibility. He’s got good talent. I think he’ll be a little better than Koivu was.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

The most impressive thing about Suzuki to me is his intangibles. He literally becomes a killer with the game on the line. He is clutch as hell and was a beast in the playoffs. I can't get over how much of a manly man he is. Strong silent type, weight of the world on his shoulders yet I've never seen the man flinch.

 

[Gillings]

Smart enough and strong enough to do what? He's still not going to be strong defensively, won't be used on the pk, won't be physical, won't win faceoffs, won't be a net front/grinder player, and won't be an enforcer.

He's just going to bring a lot of offense, and there's nothing wrong with that. Suzuki is more valuable because he will bring as much offense + do more stuffs.

I just hate the NHL. It's a carpet league cookie cutter MONEY maker. It has nothing to do with the individuals actual talent. Caufield is one of the best hockey players in the NHL.. yet alot of fans see him as a "scorer only". Ive seen him body check better than most players on the team. Besides, If you don't play him on the pk how is he ever going to get better defensively? playing him on the PK will make him a better player. Dont @ me cause I know exactly what IM talking about.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

CC was a rookie getting like 8 mins a night…

I don’t think there’s a team in the league that would take Suzuki over CC going forward. CC’s potential is just too great.

Lolol, 93% of fans disagree with you. Accept the loss and move on.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Lolol, 93% of fans disagree with you. Accept the loss and move on.

Man, you really don’t get it.

It’s a prediction thread.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Man, you really don’t get it.

It’s a prediction thread.

Yep and 93% think your prediction is wrong. The poll should have been closed before it opened.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yep and 93% think your prediction is wrong. The poll should have been closed before it opened.

Thanks for stopping by.

See you in three years.

 

[MasterD]

Every single team would take Suzuki over CC, without a doubt.

Yes.

Caufield is one of the very good goal scorers in the game already, but without a quality center putting the puck on his stick he’s not scoring as much.

Suzuki can do more by himself, and makes others better.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Every single team would take Suzuki over CC, without a doubt.

Now? Yes. Going forward? I don't think so.

I know it's hard to believe but Suzuki's skill set is easier to find. It doesn't feel that way to us because we haven't had a number one center in forever. I don't think Suzuki will be as dominant as most others here seem to think he'll be. I'd love to be wrong on that but I think half the teams out there will probably have a center just as good as he is.

CC on the other hand I think will be on another level in terms of scoring. It's the single most important skill a skater can have... putting the puck in the net. Really hard to find a guy who's among the league leaders in goals consistently. And I think CC will be.

 

[Belial]

Lolol, 93% of fans disagree with you. Accept the loss and move on.

Every single team would take Suzuki over CC, without a doubt.

I made a poll on the main board when we first started discussing this with @Lafleurs Guy...

65 votes for Suzuki vs 1 vote for Cole!

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I made a poll on the main board when we first started discussing this with @Lafleurs Guy...

65 votes for Suzuki vs 1 vote for Cole!

Well, that one will be shut down... pretty soon.

 

[Belial]

Well, that one will be shut down... pretty soon.

It was closed already

The results on our board are not any different

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It was closed already

The results on our board are not any different

You're right. But I'm keeping it open here because it's a cool discussion and it's the Montreal forum.

And if I'm wrong, believe me... I will be more than happy to repeat it in the years going forward. It's not like I haven't been wrong before. Like I said though, I think in a few years if we re-run this poll, the results will be pretty different.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes.

Caufield is one of the very good goal scorers in the game already, but without a quality center putting the puck on his stick he’s not scoring as much.

Suzuki can do more by himself, and makes others better.

"Quality center"... CC seems to have been able to be successful wherever he's gone. Would Plekanec be a quality center? I think he would. And in the future I think CC would produce with somebody like him as well. I don't think he'll be as dependent on Suzuki as you do.

 

[MasterD]

"Quality center"... CC seems to have been able to be successful wherever he's gone. Would Plekanec be a quality center? I think he would. And in the future I think CC would produce with somebody like him as well. I don't think he'll be as dependent on Suzuki as you do.

I mean, this is all 100% opinion until proven otherwise, and Caufield is obviously no Pierre Dagenais, but no I do not think Caufield scored as many goals with Plekanec as a centerman.

It's not just Suzuki's playmaking and passing ability, but the fact that he can score and doesn't hesitate to shoot opens up shooting lanes for CC.

Now's probably a good time to say that I'm not even a big Suzuki fan, and I'd take prime Koivu over him.