Suzuki vs Caufield - Pick one to build with

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Caufield may be better than Debrincat. He's tracking to be better but it's not a bad example. You're likely assuming I don't think Caufield averages out in goals/season to be in the 40-50 range.

The point I'm trying to make is there is usually up/downs over the long haul and expecting him to be at this high level for 5-10 years is a little on the premature side.

Lets see what Hughes and Gorton think about it cause Caufield's next contract will indicate some value to this discussion

He's keeping the same pace (22 in 37 and 22 in 38) over two distinct sequences as a player with little experience, a poor roster with no PMD back-up and no one to feed him regularly than Suzuki and yet scores 2/3 of his goals without his help.

The takeaway is that he'll have even more to offer as he gains experience and better teammates in key positions. It's not premature anything, but simply forecasting with proper bearings. It's more likely he will be a perennial 40/50 goal scorer (or more) than not.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He's keeping the same pace (22 in 37 and 22 in 38) over two distinct sequences as a player with little experience, a poor roster with no PMD back-up and no one to feed him regularly than Suzuki and yet scores 2/3 of his goals without his help.

The takeaway is that he'll have even more to offer as he gains experience and better teammates in key positions. It's not premature anything, but simply forecasting with proper bearings. It's more likely he will be a perennial 40/50 goal scorer (or more) than not.

I repeat, I'm thinking 5-10 year span. Not 40-80 games. I'm aware of what's happened so far and so are you and many others.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I repeat, I'm thinking 5-10 year span. Not 40-80 games.

NSS. What I said covered this.

Take time to read before replying.

 

[Habs Halifax]

NSS. What I said covered this.

Take time to read before replying.

I read it. "Perennial 40/50 goal scorer (or more) than not". Explain more cause that sounds like he can and will have a few seasons with 40+ goals but not necessarily 40+ goals in average in that 5-10 year span? Are you saying his average per/season in the 5-10 year span is 40+?

I'm taking Suzuki over Caufield but I actually dislike building on one player so it's a stupid narrative. But If I'm forced to take one and engage in the thread. I take Suzuki and you take Caufield. Lets see how this ages and bumping the post when Caufield has scored more than Suzuki lately don't change my long term vision

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I read it. "Perennial 40/50 goal scorer (or more) than not". Explain more cause that sounds like he can and will have a few seasons with 40+ goals but not necessarily 40+ goals in average in that 5-10 year span? Are you saying his average per/season in the 5-10 year span is 40+?

I'm taking Suzuki over Caufield but I actually dislike building on one player so it's a stupid narrative. But If I'm forced to take one and engage in the thread. I take Suzuki and you take Caufield. Lets see how this ages and bumping the post when Caufield has scored more than Suzuki lately don't change my long term vision

I explained that I would start with rarity.

This is rarity:

Also, your own pick of Suzuki is probably based on a belief that he will be a perennial 70-80 points for the same span when he could very well go the Tomas Plekanec route and have a short high peak.

All we have to go on right now is an extrapolation of both and based on this, I'd take Caufield's extrapolation because it's rarer.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I explained that I would start with rarity.

This is rarity:

Also, your own pick of Suzuki is probably based on a belief that he will be a perennial 70-80 points for the same span when he could very well go the Tomas Plekanec route and have a short high peak.

All we have to go on right now is an extrapolation of both and based on this, I'd take Caufield's extrapolation because it's rarer.

I already know bud. We all know. Most of us anyways. We both said what we said.

Lets see how it ages over time. Lets also see what Gorton and Hughes think about it cause Caufield's next contract will indicate some value to this discussion.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I already know bud. We all know. Most of us anyways. We both said what we said.

Lets see how it ages over time. Lets also see what Gorton and Hughes think about it cause Caufield's next contract will indicate some value to this discussion.

Not really.

Future performances will. Nothing else.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Caufield is not scoring 40-50 goals without a good top 2C though. Love Caufield and glad to have him but Suzuki has more value.

Does Caufield score 40-50 every season? What will his average per season be when we look back at age 29 lets say? Someone like Debrincat has prorated goals per season at 35 goals. Will Caufield be higher than that?

CC has been scoring without a top 2 centre for the past month.

A centre would enhance his numbers for sure, but he’s not dependent on one to score. He’s proving that already. And he’s doing it while being in the worst PP on the league too.

 

[Habs Halifax]

CC has been scoring without a top 2 centre for the past month.

A centre would enhance his numbers for sure, but he’s not dependent on one to score. He’s proving that already. And he’s doing it while being in the worst PP on the league too.

It's not a lob sided debate. The poll results are skewed. I believe in Caufield just as much as you do but I'd take Suzuki.

My curiosity is where does Caufield's goals/season averages out in the 5-10 year span. Looks great right now yes

One of the things I learned or adapted to over the last few years is things change over the long haul. So yeah, where is Caufield going to average out at when we look back. Like I said previously, Debrincat is at 35 goals. Caufield appears to be better but it's early

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It's not a lob sided debate. The poll results are skewed. I believe in Caufield just as much as you do but I'd take Suzuki.

My curiosity is where does Caufield's goals/season averages out in the 5-10 year span. Looks great right now yes

One of the things I learned or adapted to over the last few years is things change over the long haul. So yeah, where is Caufield going to average out at when we look back. Like I said previously, Debrincat is at 35 goals. Caufield appears to be better but it's early

You can take whoever you want. Clearly the majority agree with you.

But I don't.

In my opinion one of these players is a superstar and the other isn't. I think people get bogged down into the "a center is better than a winger" nonsense and lose sight of what's really important.

One thing that has been proven beyond a doubt though, CC doesn't need anyone to score. He can do it on his own, which is what superstars are able to do - even on bad teams. If he had a productive center with him (which I think Suzuki is - but not at the moment) his numbers will go up. His assist totals have cratered but it's not like he hasn't made some good passes over the past month. Right now, our club simply can't score consistently apart from him.

My hope is that Monahan comes back and Suzuki regains his form. If that happens CC will benefit as well.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You can take whoever you want. Clearly the majority agree with you.

But I don't.

In my opinion one of these players is a superstar and the other isn't. I think people get bogged down into the "a center is better than a winger" nonsense and lose sight of what's really important.

One thing that has been proven beyond a doubt though, CC doesn't need anyone to score. He can do it on his own, which is what superstars are able to do - even on bad teams. If he had a productive center with him (which I think Suzuki is - but not at the moment) his numbers will go up. His assist totals have cratered but it's not like he hasn't made some good passes over the past month. Right now, our club simply can't score consistently apart from him.

My hope is that Monahan comes back and Suzuki regains his form. If that happens CC will benefit as well.

Personally, I don't really care about majority bandwagons. It often does not reveal the truth. Even if the poll results are in my favor. I hate those narratives.

Interesting debate and very curious to see how it ages. Be careful with what we say today I guess cause it will be bumped up later.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Personally, I don't really care about majority bandwagons. It often does not reveal the truth. Even if the poll results are in my favor. I hate those narratives.

Interesting debate and very curious to see how it ages. Be careful with what we say today I guess cause it will be bumped up later.

I don't care if it's bumped up later. I have zero problem giving my opinion now.

I think CC is a future superstar. I don't think Suzuki is. There it is for the record. I'll be happy to eat crow later if I'm wrong.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't care if it's bumped up later. I have zero problem giving my opinion now.

I think CC is a future superstar. I don't think Suzuki is. There it is for the record. I'll be happy to eat crow later if I'm wrong.

It's possible neither are superstars when we look back. Good players who are definite top 6 quality. Personally, I rather speak towards top line asset vs top 6 asset with these two

Can Caufield have a 40+ goal average/season for the 5-10 year span? Not sure. Hope so but I see some form of a rollercoaster ride. What Gorton/Hughes give him for a contract will be some form of indication on how they see things as well.

 

[HabsMD97]

Quite obvious form the get go that caufield is naturally the more talented player. The way he handles the puck not many in the league can do, just go look at the preds game the way he can handle and make plays of off bad passes and bouncing pucks. He's like a poor man's Bedard in that he can spark offence from nothing even when the team is playing badly. Suzuki goes as the team goes. He's a good player, not a superstar. He's in the Lindholm tier of players, someone valuable but not rare. Caufield is in another tier. We are so lucky that he fell to 15, but we need another like him and it's not Suzuki.

I don't care if it's bumped up later. I have zero problem giving my opinion now.

I think CC is a future superstar. I don't think Suzuki is. There it is for the record. I'll be happy to eat crow later if I'm wrong.

He already is a superstar, if he had linemates who weren't allergic to shooting the freaking puck he'd have more assists and would a pts/gp player right now.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

I'm changing my vote to Caufield. His vision, the way he moves and handles the puck is elite.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I can dismiss Suzuki's play as possible injury or temporary slump. For whatever reason, he's slumping. It is what it is.

But I'm more certain now than I was before that CC is the better player. Not because Suzuki has fallen off... but because Caufield continues to produce regardless of who he's playing with and regardless of anyone setting him up. The kid's a machine. Now just a hair under pacing for 50 goals this year.

About 95 percent of you disagreed with me.

How do you feel now?

 

[the valiant effort]

I’m sticking with the centre that’s slumping so hard he still has more points

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I’m sticking with the centre that’s slumping so hard he still has more points

Want to hear something absolutley hilarious?

Caufield hasn't had an assist since Nov 23rd. (13 goals in 22 games in that stretch including tonight)

Now... having watched the games, do you think that's a reflection of him or his team?

 

[David Suzuki]

I have to say really surprised by the results of this poll lol. Went Caufield with very little hesitation.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I have to say really surprised by the results of this poll lol. Went Caufield with very little hesitation.

Poll was taken when both players were having a great year. Caufield's analytics were better as were the goal totals but Suzuki was generating points and scoring goals. There was certainly a good argument to say that Suzuki was having the better year.

My argument was that going forward - Caufield would be the better player. Younger, better history... and his play has only reinforced this for me. Scoring without any support the way he has - his analytics are sick... Even if Suzuki had continued his play, I think Caufield's demonstrated that he's the real deal.

 

[Habs13]

Technically, we did. We picked Suzuki and started building around him with Caufield.

 

[Tanknation]

We have both so I say who cares. Both.

 

[Random Comment]

Caufield has scored 44 goals in his last 75 games as a rookie and sophomore and Suzuki assisted only 15 of them.

The example of Debrincat is bad. They are different players. Caufield has a bigger arsenal of shots and is less reliant on his teammates to score.

I'm pretty sure Caufield will average out as a higher scorer than Cat.

Sens fan here. I think Debrincat being reliant on teammates is a weak narrative. Many thought he would be worse without Kane. He’s sitting at a very low 9.5% sh% right now, so he likely has closer to 20 goals and over point per game pace now with normal luck. Cat goes I to the corners and makes his own plays and is great defensively.

I Like Caufield’s shot more - he seems to be able to score from just about anywhere. As an all around player, he’s not better than Debrincat though, not now at least. Could very well be in the future though. I see him in that 40-55 goal range for much of his 20s, and I doubt you see as much yo-yoing in goals as Debrincat. I don’t see him scoring less than 35-40 in a season without an injury - his shot and ability to get to places he needs to be is too good. And the kid cares a lot, so I’m not concerned he becomes lazy.

Any thoughts of Suzukis potential? Is he a point per game player or is what we see now what he is ?

 

[Tetragrammaton]

Poll was taken when both players were having a great year. Caufield's analytics were better as were the goal totals but Suzuki was generating points and scoring goals. There was certainly a good argument to say that Suzuki was having the better year.

My argument was that going forward - Caufield would be the better player. Younger, better history... and his play has only reinforced this for me. Scoring without any support the way he has - his analytics are sick... Even if Suzuki had continued his play, I think Caufield's demonstrated that he's the real deal.

Why not open the poll and let people change their votes?

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Never doubted Caufields ability. He’s an elite goal scorer. There is no doubt about that, if I’m building a team from the ground up I’m taking Suzuki. A slump hasn’t changed that for me, Suzuki is elite away from the puck. One racks up totals and the other wins you more games.