Transfer: Summer Transfer Thread Part I

[Evilo]

They both gave 15 G/A this year though Lautaro has played 21 games and DCL has played 20. So their production is basically equal this year with Lautaro being more productive over the last few season.

Yeah I used a year and a half, league only that's why.
And there's no denying Lukaku brings a lot of space to Lautaro. If you stop DCL, you stop Everton from scoring basically.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yeah I used a year and a half, league only that's why.
And there's no denying Lukaku brings a lot of space to Lautaro. If you stop DCL, you stop Everton from scoring basically.

I mean they still have James, Richarlisom, and Doucoure who’ve been good this year as well. Obviously Everton isn’t as good as Inter but they’ve got good pieces to help DCL.

 

[cgf]

There's no way Leipzig doesn't start Calvert Lewin.

Nagelsmann has prefered Forsberg & Olmo as false-nines this season, to take advantage of the runs from around/behind the "forward(s)" and to give them even greater flexibility in their pressing. So Calvert Lewin would certainly play for them and start against some teams...not just bottom of the table bus-parkers, as starting him in matches with Wolfsburg would probably help...but I'm doubtful that he would be first choice most of the time / in the big matches.

Not because he is bad or anything, but just because he's not as strong in the areas that Julian has prioritized from his "forwards" this season as Forsberg / Olmo / Szoboszlai (if JN plays him there) are, and his strengths are not the things that Nagelsmann has focused on from his "forwards" since losing Timo. Same reason DCL would take Embolo's spot in Gladbach's rotation, rather than Plea, Stindl, Thuram, or Hofmann's spots in their best 11.

But maybe I'm underestimating him and should've said that 'only 1 of the strikers AB had listed had a chance of starting for a BuLi CL club', as I was (admittedly) being overly aggressive with my verbiage to match AB's tone. I did catch a handful of Everton games earlier in the season when all of the english-language football media was talking about how well-coached they were; so have some feel for his progress/current-level, but I obviously have nowhere near as many viewings of him as I do of the Leipzig attackers.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Almada and another teammate. accused of sexual assault.He’s left out of the squad.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Palacios to Basel is close. 18 month loan with obligation to buy. So, in a span of 1 hour 2 of the very best Argentinian prospects futures are in jeopardy. This is why we can’t have nice things.

 

[cgf]

Still not what I was responding to.

EDIT : to make it clear, CL is to me a tier better than many strikers named here, and some people (weird to me) call him a lesser striker than many of them (Jovic, Poulsen, Plea, Thuram, and many others).
Calvert Lewin could absolutely start on a top EPL team. I'm sure Liverpool could use him given the disaster of a striker position they have right now. He's better than any Chelsea striker except Werner, who's often played on the wing. He's a step above Jesus who's starting most games for City. He'd start at West Ham (who's likely under Everton anyway once the games in hand are played).
So of the 6 teams above Everton in the standings (counting WH), I count 4 teams where he'd start many games. Only Leicester (Vardy is better right now) and United (Cavani+Rashford+Martial) have clear better options.

You're misreading my post.

I never said he was a lesser Striker than Plea or Jovic...whom I wasn't considering for this exercise since the 4 german teams in the CL this season are Bayern, Dortmund, Leipzig & Gladbach...and expressly said that comparing him to Poulsen/Sorloth & Thuram was faulty since Poulsen/Sorloth aren't first choice for Leipzig and Thuram plays on the wing for BMG.

What I said* was that he wouldn't start over Lewandowski or Haaland because they are better than him -- which shouldn't be controversial -- and that he wouldn't be first choice over Plea/Stindl or Forsberg/Olmo because those guys are better at the things that Nagelsmann & Rose want from their strikers...even if they aren't as good as him in other areas.

*or at least what I was trying to say, haven't re-read my post to check my phrasing

Stats aren’t everything.

Heretic.

 

[AB13]

Nagelsmann has prefered Forsberg & Olmo as false-nines this season, to take advantage of the runs from around/behind the "forward(s)" and to give them even greater flexibility in their pressing. So Calvert Lewin would certainly play for them and start against some teams...not just bottom of the table bus-parkers, as starting him in matches with Wolfsburg would probably help...but I'm doubtful that he would be first choice most of the time / in the big matches.

Not because he is bad or anything, but just because he's not as strong in the areas that Julian has prioritized from his "forwards" this season as Forsberg / Olmo / Szoboszlai (if JN plays him there) are, and his strengths are not the things that Nagelsmann has focused on from his "forwards" since losing Timo. Same reason DCL would take Embolo's spot in Gladbach's rotation, rather than Plea, Stindl, Thuram, or Hofmann's spots in their best 11.

But maybe I'm underestimating him and should've said that 'only 1 of the strikers AB had listed had a chance of starting for a BuLi CL club', as I was (admittedly) being overly aggressive with my verbiage to match AB's tone. I did catch a handful of Everton games earlier in the season when all of the english-language football media was talking about how well-coached they were; so have some feel for his progress/current-level, but I obviously have nowhere near as many viewings of him as I do of the Leipzig attackers.

Have you watched Bamford and Watkins? Serious question, because they are quite comfortably ahead of all striker options at Leipzig and Gladbach to me. I am not going to pretend that I watch Gladbach and Leipzig regularly outside of the CL though, but based on stats and the little I have seen it is hard to claim Bamford and Watkins would not start for those two clubs. Bamford and Watkins are both very good link players, first of all ( hard time imagining Plea/Stindl are better at that), but also good goalscorers.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

I would say that of the bold you listed; Jimenez, Auba, Zapata, Dembele, Alcacer, and Belotti are all better and better consistently. It would come down to a debate between Firmino, Osimhen, Suarez, and Mertens and honestly if someone preferred Martial over those four then I couldn't complain. There is some wildcard elements though because Firmino plays much differently than majority of #9's and Suarez is clearly supreme who has declined due to age and nothing else.

Stop naming Alcacer there please, HE'S NOT THAT GOOD.
Gerard Moreno is twice the player Alcacer is

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Is Joao Felix considered a striker?

More of a 10 and he's very inconsistent still

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Stop naming Alcacer there please, HE'S NOT THAT GOOD.
Gerard Moreno is twice the player Alcacer is

With the names mentioned hell you might as well throw Alario in there. LOL

 

[Vasilevskiy]

With the names mentioned hell you might as well throw Alario in there. LOL

I really don't get his infatuation with Alcacer.
Gerard Moreno is the one forward you want from Villareal not Paco

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I really don't get his infatuation with Alcacer.
Gerard Moreno is the one forward you want from Villareal not Paco

I mean consider the source... All this talk and not a single mention of Aspas.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

I mean consider the source... All this talk and not a single mention of Aspas.

Aspas is also clearly a level above Alcacer

 

[The Abusement Park]

I mean consider the source... All this talk and not a single mention of Aspas.

But Aspas sucked that one time for Liverpool. So he could never be good.

 

[cgf]

Have you watched Bamford and Watkins? Serious question, because they are quite comfortably ahead of all striker options at Leipzig and Gladbach to me. I am not going to pretend that I watch Gladbach and Leipzig regularly outside of the CL though, but based on stats and the little I have seen it is hard to claim Bamford and Watkins would not start for those two clubs. Bamford and Watkins are both very good link players, first of all ( hard time imagining Plea/Stindl are better at that), but also good goalscorers.

Bamford yes. Bielsa is too interesting for me not to watch Leeds when there isn't an even more interesting BuLi game on :-p...I just don't like posting in the EPL threads when I do cause I always end up getting sucked into y'all's local pissing-matches...and Bamford is simply not as skilled with the ball as Forsberg, Olmo, Plea or Stindl are; each of whom has the touch & dribbling to comfortably operate in tight spaces at a level that is just not in Bamford's toolbox, while also being more elegant passers.

Which shouldn't be particularly surprising given that Forsberg was a successful playmaking winger before being converted into a forward by Nagelsmann, while both Olmo & Stindl joined their current clubs after having had success as creative attacking midfielders. And that skill/creativity that they bring to the forward positions is a big part of their teams' possession games being able to continue flowing with the ball until they've pulled the defense apart for a scoring chance to come to someone.


I may have caught Watkins, but if I did, I wasn't paying attention to him enough to even start forming an opinion about him. But if he's not significantly more skilled with the ball in tight spaces than either DCL or Bamford, then I don't see why he would start for Leipzig or Gladbach, either.


And the bolded is where you're getting tripped up. Looking at stats without understanding the context of those #s...the way those players are deployed, what they are tasked with doing, what their team-mates bring to the table that they are complementing, etc...is going to mislead you more times than not; especially in this sport.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I don’t see why BVB wouldn’t at least consider it. He has a release clause of 75mil next year. They could get wayyy more than that this summer so I’m not sure why they would want to be put in a situation where they lose him for half his value.

Haaland is 100% for sale this summer. Dortmund will always deny until a fee is approved. They will ask the moon though (my guess is a new world record fee)

 

[hatterson]

Haaland is 100% for sale this summer. Dortmund will always deny until a fee is approved. They will ask the moon though (my guess is a new world record fee)

No one has that kind of money this summer. He won't get remotely close to a world record fee, especially given the release clause next summer.

 

[AB13]

Bamford yes. Bielsa is too interesting for me not to watch Leeds when there isn't an even more interesting BuLi game on :-p...I just don't like posting in the EPL threads when I do cause I always end up getting sucked into y'all's local pissing-matches...and Bamford is simply not as skilled with the ball as Forsberg, Olmo, Plea or Stindl are; each of whom has the touch & dribbling to comfortably operate in tight spaces at a level that is just not in Bamford's toolbox, while also being more elegant passers.

Which shouldn't be particularly surprising given that Forsberg was a successful playmaking winger before being converted into a forward by Nagelsmann, while both Olmo & Stindl joined their current clubs after having had success as creative attacking midfielders. And that skill/creativity that they bring to the forward positions is a big part of their teams' possession games being able to continue flowing with the ball until they've pulled the defense apart for a scoring chance to come to someone.


I may have caught Watkins, but if I did, I wasn't paying attention to him enough to even start forming an opinion about him. But if he's not significantly more skilled with the ball in tight spaces than either DCL or Bamford, then I don't see why he would start for Leipzig or Gladbach, either.


And the bolded is where you're getting tripped up. Looking at stats without understanding the context of those #s...the way those players are deployed, what they are tasked with doing, what their team-mates bring to the table that they are complementing, etc...is going to mislead you more times than not; especially in this sport.

I am not just looking at stats, absolutely not. A lot of my judgement of non PL/elite CL club players are based on 4-5 games, which is where problems arise. I trust my ability to judge players quickly a bit too much and I am aware of that.

I know all about Forsberg, I am Swedish, and I have watched quite a lot of Leipzig compared to other German teams. I just think that Bamford could replace Poulsen in his role and do a much better job, and I do think Nagelsmann would adjust his system to fit Bamford/Watkins in the team. Bamford and Watkins are probably the two best playmaking strikers in the Premier League, with excellent technical skills, and that is why I value them so highly. I have not seen enough of Plea/Stindl to know if they are better in those aspects, but few strikers are better providers than Bamford and Watkins.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

I have more faith that Watkins could bring it away from Villa than I do that Bamford could away from Leeds, tbh. I like Bamford (I have since he was part of our loan army), but he is currently thriving in a system that has been so carefully structured around its particular pieces.

 

[les Habs]

What the hell is the matter with some of you. Suarez shouldn't be so low on your lists.

Yeah, it makes sense for him to go to Madrid. That style would suit him well. My only concern if he came to barca is if he would be able to play with possession.

Who?

The circus in Barca and french and spanish newspapers right now is laughable.
First Laporta goes on about how Leonardo shouldn't talk about Messi (1/ he didn't and 2/ he has the right too) and that Barca are above that (even though they have talked about Neymar, Marquinhos, Thiago Silva and Verratti over the years, as well as demanded that players force their transfers in various cases from other teams).

Then France Football had a cover with Messi in a Paris shirt this week. To which the spanish newspapers called that "harassment" on their own covers.
This right here are JUST the number of covers of Sport about Neymar since he's in a PSG shirt :


That obviously doesn't include the covers about Marquinhos, Thiago Silva, Verratti and Mbappe.

What a joke.

Per this and all the other posts:

• I think there is the context of who said what and when, but really I think it's hypocritical for pretty much anyone at Barça to complain here.
• That said there was always A LOT of moaning if anyone at Barça ever commented on another player, so anyone who has ever moaned about that shouldn't comment here either.
• I imagine France Football is a... "different" publication than the Spanish press in terms of transfers and such. Probably more focused on actual matches and real news as opposed to rumors.
• To say that Barça "demanded that players for their transfers" is surely more than a bit much.

Like I said, I think it's hypocritical for anyone associated with Barça to complain. That said the PSG "campaign" from some of their players is entertaining. I just wonder if the Barça press' "reporting" on Messi's reaction is accurate.

Stop naming Alcacer there please, HE'S NOT THAT GOOD.
Gerard Moreno is twice the player Alcacer is

Absolutely, and I HATE Moreno.

Aspas is also clearly a level above Alcacer

Yep. Credit to @Duchene2MacKinnon too for mentioning Aspas.

 

[cgf]

I am not just looking at stats, absolutely not. A lot of my judgement of non PL/elite CL club players are based on 4-5 games, which is where problems arise. I trust my ability to judge players quickly a bit too much and I am aware of that.

I know all about Forsberg, I am Swedish, and I have watched quite a lot of Leipzig compared to other German teams. I just think that Bamford could replace Poulsen in his role and do a much better job, and I do think Nagelsmann would adjust his system to fit Bamford/Watkins in the team. Bamford and Watkins are probably the two best playmaking strikers in the Premier League, with excellent technical skills, and that is why I value them so highly. I have not seen enough of Plea/Stindl to know if they are better in those aspects, but few strikers are better providers than Bamford and Watkins.

If you've watched so much of them then why do you keep implying that Poulsen is a first-choice player for them this season?

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yep. Credit to @Duchene2MacKinnon too for mentioning Aspas.

Hey I was the first one to mention him on my list above!

 

[les Habs]

Hey I was the first one to mention him on my list above!

Yeah, but I'm used to those two dipsticks talking about Ramos and Isco going to Barça so I have give them the right type of encouragement to post sensibly whenever I can.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Haaland is 100% for sale this summer. Dortmund will always deny until a fee is approved. They will ask the moon though (my guess is a new world record fee)

Every source says he’s not and he doesn’t want to leave, but you think he is? I’ll go with what you say instead.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Every source says he’s not and he doesn’t want to leave, but you think he is? I’ll go with what you say instead.

It is obviously all speculation from me of course he could stay at Dortmund (have they recently got the money of City/Real Madrid/United and I am not aware?)

That being said, he is considered the hottest young talent on the planet right now. So unless Dortmund decide to break the bank and offer him a crazy salary increase and a new Bundesliga record similar to Mbappe (including Raiola commission) and possibly without CL to boot for Dortmund (as it stands). Let's say I have some reservation. I don't expect Dortmund would be vocal either about selling him. And I also don't see them forcing him to stay another year and let him go cheaply next summer too.