Speculation: Summer 2018 Roster Discussion Part III

[Friday]

So EK was never a real option but this summer is lame thus far.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Obviously he may not be telling to whole truth but all we have is the evidence of what happened in the news reports. The evidence says that Florida had the opportunity to trade and Florida turned it down. Maybe Dorian and Tallon are not telling the whole truth. Your speculation may actually be what happened but you can't convict on speculation alone.

You can't base your opinions on your 'news reports' because the source can't be relied upon to be the truth just as much as the reports from someone like Craig Custance or any other person from The Athletic on twitter. You can't buy one and not the other really.

 

[Mafoofoo]

Wow all that capspace and we miss on everyone. I almost feel like the Warriors are siphoning all the possible luck we may have.

 

[hockeyball]

Well, this off season is another bust. I see very little reason for expecting more success this year than last, but hey that's being a sharks fan I guess. We lost boedker, added nothing, basically. We could have been cup favorites easily, now we are looking at another year of mediocrity. Hopefully dw pulls a rabbit out of the hat, but I'm not getting my Hope's up.

 

[Hinterland]

Wow all that capspace and we miss on everyone. I almost feel like the Warriors are siphoning all the possible luck we may have.

They let Boedker go...something has to happen. There are still guys on the market.

 

[Friday]

 

[AgentCooper]

Speculation based off of credible reports that Melnyk told Dorion not to make a deal within the division. That's a reason why the Sharks probably won't make a deal for Karlsson.

Ok. Here's my issue with your line of thinking. These two sentences do not necessarily equate to one another. For all we know, Dorion told Wilson, "I could give two s***s what you do with him, but we're not going to be the ones to hand him to a division rival on the cheap." There is no evidence that there are hard feelings here.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

We should just keep our powder dry. Maybe add someone like Pacioretty or Skinner if the price is low and kick the can down the road on extending either of them until we get a better idea of whether Seguin or Duchene will be available in the UFA market next summer. We're not in a great spot right now but we should certainly still make the playoffs in a weak division.

This.

 

[pappaf2]

Ok. Here's my issue with your line of thinking. These two sentences do not necessarily equate to one another. For all we know, Dorion told Wilson, "I could give two s***s what you do with him, but we're not going to be the ones to hand him to a division rival on the cheap." There is no evidence that there are hard feelings here.

Evidence means nothing to PF

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Dorion may or may not be willing to deal with DW. If his boss tells him that he's not going to do a deal with them then they're not going to do a deal. Also, no there isn't as much evidence to speculate that their professional relationship with Ottawa is fine.

Whether or not you believe the evidence to be equal or not is an opinion, not fact.

 

[SjMilhouse]

The Islanders deserve to lose Tavares with the way they run that team. You franchise #1C leaves you for the Leafs then what do you do? You turn around and help reduce some of their upcoming cap hell by trading for a garbage enforcer?

I'm waiting for when Lou suddenly leaves the Islanders and goes back to Toronto in one of the craziest double agent moves ever

 

[hohosaregood]

The Islanders deserve to lose Tavares with the way they run that team. You franchise #1C leaves you for the Leafs then what do you do? You turn around and help reduce some of their upcoming cap hell by trading for a garbage enforcer?

I'm waiting for when Lou suddenly leaves the Islanders and goes back to Toronto in one of the craziest double agent moves ever

I'm mostly convinced that Lou's success in Toronto was very much not because of him. He was great a long time ago but he turned they Devil's dynasty into a joke by the time he was gone.

 

[STL Shark]

The Islanders deserve to lose Tavares with the way they run that team. You franchise #1C leaves you for the Leafs then what do you do? You turn around and help reduce some of their upcoming cap hell by trading for a garbage enforcer?

I'm waiting for when Lou suddenly leaves the Islanders and goes back to Toronto in one of the craziest double agent moves ever

It is unsurprising seeing as Lou was the one that signed Martin to the contract in the first place.

 

[SjMilhouse]

I'm mostly convinced that Lou's success in Toronto was very much not because of him. He was great a long time ago but he turned they Devil's dynasty into a joke by the time he was gone.

I know it's a running joke that people think they can do a better job as a GM on message boards like this and even reddit....but between the NBA and NHL, sometimes I wonder if some of those people COULD do a better job running a team at least from a trade/line up perspective. My god

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

That's exactly what I read - which is customary. The asking price for trading within a division usually higher.

That Ottawa (or Melnyk) is holding a grudge and would not trade with the Sharks is an assumption fueled by a narrative created by the media.

I just don't see why he would.
Ottawa wanted Roster players.
Florida wanted to give up picks and no players.

In comes San Jose who wants to get rid of a roster player for picks. Problem solved.

Person A has a $20 bill and wants 2 $10 bills as Change.

Person B has 2 $10s but they want 4 $5s in change.

Person C has 4 $5s and wants a $20 bill.

So, Person A swaps with Person B and then swaps with person C and everyone gets what they want even though no one was offering the exact exchange wanted by all parties.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I'm mostly convinced that Lou's success in Toronto was very much not because of him. He was great a long time ago but he turned they Devil's dynasty into a joke by the time he was gone.

I think he was there to guide Dubas and be a buffer between he and Babcock. I kind of wonder how long that relationship will last. No Lou, No Hunter.

 

[STL Shark]

I just don't see why he would.
Ottawa wanted Roster players.
Florida wanted to give up picks and no players.

In comes San Jose who wants to get rid of a roster player for picks. Problem solved.

Person A has a $20 bill and wants 2 $10 bills as Change.

Person B has 2 $10s but they want 4 $5s in change.

Person C has 4 $5s and wants a $20 bill.

So, Person A swaps with Person B and then swaps with person C and everyone gets what they want even though no one was offering the exact exchange wanted by all parties.

At this point who cares. This pissing contest is insufferable. It literally does not matter.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

At this point who cares. This pissing contest is insufferable. It literally does not matter.

Isn't the point of a discussion board to do exactly that, discus?

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I know it's a running joke that people think they can do a better job as a GM on message boards like this and even reddit....but between the NBA and NHL, sometimes I wonder if some of those people COULD do a better job running a team at least from a trade/line up perspective. My god

It's easy from the sidelines without consequences.

 

[Lebanezer]

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Ok. Here's my issue with your line of thinking. These two sentences do not necessarily equate to one another. For all we know, Dorion told Wilson, "I could give two s***s what you do with him, but we're not going to be the ones to hand him to a division rival on the cheap." There is no evidence that there are hard feelings here.

It’s not Dorion’s feelings you need to be worried about. He’s just doing what he’s told.

Whether or not you believe the evidence to be equal or not is an opinion, not fact.

I didn’t say it was a fact but the ‘evidence’ presented is no more or less opinion as well.

 

[Pistol Pete]

There doesn't need to be a report or a quote that they're mad at DW. There already has been reports that Melnyk told Dorion to not trade Hoffman within their division and, because of DW, Hoffman is in their division. Of course they're not happy with that and of course that's plenty of reason for someone like Melnyk to not trade with the Sharks regarding Karlsson. All of that is rational and based on credible reports so don't tell me nonsense about thinking rationally when it comes to Ottawa. Ottawa doesn't hold any special meaning. It's just a realistic view on the situation based on the evidence that's out there. That's the most rational thing someone can do. You're just pretending none of that exists.

Thank you. I appreciate your response. I read plenty of reports after the Hoffman trade and never once saw anything about Melnyk telling Dorian not to trade Hoffman in the division. If you can provide a link or quote I am more than happy to believe the speculation. Also, please don’t question my rationale or infer that I’m doing something that I’m not. I have a lot of respect for you and your opinion.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

I'm mostly convinced that Lou's success in Toronto was very much not because of him. He was great a long time ago but he turned they Devil's dynasty into a joke by the time he was gone.

Lamoriello only did 2 things right in Toronto. The Andersen trade, which was a great move to acquire a starting goaltender. Andersen has been strong for them. And tanking for Auston Matthews, which I am not convinced was intentional. Everything else he did was questionable at best. If you want to consider the Matthews tank intentional, then I guess he did a pretty good job, but he still got lucky to win that draft lottery.

It’s not Dorion’s feelings you need to be worried about. He’s just doing what he’s told.



I didn’t say it was a fact but the ‘evidence’ presented is no more or less opinion as well.

I think the fact that Wilson is still clearly in on Karlsson is a sign that Ottawa may be willing to deal him to San Jose and that Dorion/Melnyk aren’t as angry at Wilson as to seem to think they are.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Thank you. I appreciate your response. I read plenty of reports after the Hoffman trade and never once saw anything about Melnyk telling Dorian not to trade Hoffman in the division. If you can provide a link or quote I am more than happy to believe the speculation. Also, please don’t question my rationale or infer that I’m doing something that I’m not. I have a lot of respect for you and your opinion.

Custance reporter it on his Twitter. And telling me not to question your rationale when you tell me I’m irrational about Ottawa is going to get a response like that.

 

[AgentCooper]

It’s not Dorion’s feelings you need to be worried about. He’s just doing what he’s told.

Sure, but that's not the point. The point is that there is no evidence that they (Dorion OR Melnyk) are angry or that they won't trade with the Sharks in the future. That, in my opinion, is a significant leap in logic. Plus, there is a difference between not wanting Hoffman in their division and not wanting to personally trade Hoffman to a division rival. You seem to be conflating these two very different situations.