Steve Yzerman is not a good GM.

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Sweet.

2015: Ranranen (10th)
2016: Jost (10th)
2017: Makar (4th)
2018: Kaut (16th)
2019: Byram (4th)

My point stands, it took the Avs more or less five seasons from 16/17 to 21/22 to win a Cup. Most of their top ten picks fall within this timeline.

What's Yzerman's excuse?

Their entire top line from the Cup win was drafted before 16/17, so your point is still illogical.

 

[The Panther]

Yzerman always said this would take time, he expressed it in the media, he expressed it to ownership, he expressed it anywhere. They hired him based on the knowledge that this is going take 7-8 years minimum, realistically anywhere from 8-12.

Yeah, I'm sure when Yzerman was hired, his goal was to emulate the current Buffalo Sabres.

 

[SENStastic]

Yzerman always said this would take time, he expressed it in the media, he expressed it to ownership, he expressed it anywhere. They hired him based on the knowledge that this is going take 7-8 years minimum, realistically anywhere from 8-12.

Honestly its more like 15-18 years, realistically 18-22 years.

Jesus WTF am I reading?? How cultish can you get? If a GM can't turn things around in 5-6 years, then he sucks sh"t at this job. Whats gotten into Wings fans, utter insanity if you deem a decade+ as a reasonable timeline to build a competitive team and expect fans and players to wait that long.

 

[norrisnick]

Do people have no idea how long it takes to actually get good? Especially if you don't get a bunch of lottery picks. The foundations for all the recent cup winners had pieces laid down a decade plus before they finally put it all together. And most had a nice shiny lottery pick or two kicking around the roster. And none of them were nearly as bad and devoid of talent as the 2019 Wings.

Dylan Larkin is literally the only Wing left from 2019.

But go on and say the turnaround should be further along...

 

[Ezekial]

To those asking what Yzerman should be doing differently look at the Laine trade there is your answer.

A good GM like Kent Hughes will weaponize his cap space so that he can take good players at low value and get an asset to do so.

The Laine trade is a risk but for the price they paid It's well worth it.

Bad GM'S like Steve Yzerman don't weaponize their cap space instead they give away cheap RHD for free and ADD 2nd round picks to do it.

Yes, what a brilliant move. Let's take up 8.7 million in cap for a 2nd round pick and not be able to afford both Raymond and Mo's new contracts.

8D chess move Yzerman is too much of a doofus to make.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Yes, what a brilliant move. Let's take up 8.7 million in cap for a 2nd round pick and not be able to afford both Raymond and Mo's new contracts.

8D chess move Yzerman is too much of a doofus to make.

I mean he had 30 million in cap space after the Wallman trade

 

[Ezekial]

I mean he had 30 million in cap space after the Wallman trade

I'd rather have Kane and Tarasenko than Laine and a second, pretty easily.

 

[Pavels Dog]

... Don't think there were very many who considered AA/Ras/Veleno as having "Core piece" potential in 2019.

That was right after AA had a very promising 30 goal season and Veleno was a 100+ point scorer in the Q.
Point being, the reasons things have been slower than hoped is that most of what Holland left the team with didn't pan out.

If a GM can't turn things around in 5-6 years, then he sucks sh"t at this job.

It's a good thing Yzerman has already turned things around then.

 

[SoupNazi]

I mean he had 30 million in cap space after the Wallman trade

According to what I’ve read in this thread, Yzerman probably had no clue how much cap space he had.

 

[SENStastic]

According to what I’ve read in this thread, Yzerman probably had no clue how much cap space he had.

Clearly he didn't, given how desperately and urgently he wanted to offload Walman for literally nothing, and attach a 2nd to boot. Someone should've informed him he had cap space. But ya, what a great GM, big brained move only Wings fans can truly understand and appreciate.

 

[Henkka]

Now it's rumoured that Seider is gonna sign for 8.6M, Raymond for 7.9M and Berggren for 1.1M

Total 17.6M.

And Yzerman didn't know how much cap space he had?

He pretty much did know 100% and has that 17.6M cap space now.

You Sens and Leafs guys seem to be damn bored.

He unloaded Walman to get:
A) open roster spot for Edvinsson
B) cap space

Two things in one move, to fix something else, like 2.5M goalie addition (money difference between Edvinsson 900k and 3.4M Walman).

And based on analytics, Walman was the worst Red Wings defenceman on later part of the season, and at same time Edvinsson stepped up and started look like a TOP4 guy. So that was the clear reason for a trade. Maybe also some off-ice issues, but also the level of play mattered.

Let's stay in facts and stop this nonsense crap.

 

[nbwingsfan]

How so?


Yeah, no kidding.

The Duchene - O'Reilly - Johnson rebuild starting in 2009 failed. We saw O'Reilly shipped out in 2015 and Duchene traded in 2017. The leadership of the team then moved to MacKinnon and Rantanen beginning in 2017. Makar doesn't see regular season ice until 2019.


If that's the logic we're going to use, that a rebuild starts as soon as one of the core players is drafted, then Detroit has been rebuilding since 15/16, or Larkin's first year. Detroit is now going on year ten with nothing to show for it. Ouch.

The 16/17 season is generally viewed as the beginning of the current core's window, just because Landeskog and MacKinnon were on the team prior to that season doesn't mean the franchise was in the same organizational cycle.

Especially after winning the division in 13/14 and attempting to make the playoffs by adding at the trade deadline the next two seasons.

How does what happened BEFORE Yzerman mean anything towards Yzerman as a GM?

Especially when the best players left behind were Larkin, Bertuzzi and Hronek? Top prospects were Zadina, Veleno and Cholowski

Certainly a far cry from Mackinnon and Rantanen lol.

There was also no Makar available for him to draft.

But keep trying man! You’ll find a point eventually

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

To those asking what Yzerman should be doing differently look at the Laine trade there is your answer.

A good GM like Kent Hughes will weaponize his cap space so that he can take good players at low value and get an asset to do so.

The Laine trade is a risk but for the price they paid It's well worth it.

Bad GM'S like Steve Yzerman don't weaponize their cap space instead they give away cheap RHD for free and ADD 2nd round picks to do it.

Yeah bro. Trading for a $9M one dimensional winger who just got out of PAP and hasn't played a full season in 4 years is a genius move.

Now it's rumoured that Seider is gonna sign for 8.6M, Raymond for 7.9M and Berggren for 1.1M

Total 17.6M.

Rumored by who...

 

[Snuggs]

If Yzerman traded a first-round pick for a goalie signed for 1 year Senator fans might like him better.


I have my complaints about Yzerman as a Red Wings fan but, imo, it's silly to call him a "bad"/"not good" GM. He's fine. Idk if he's the best in game like I was made to believe but it's really tough, imo, to say he's a "bad" GM.

Drafting Seider/Raymond alone is already doing something pretty good.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Clearly he didn't, given how desperately and urgently he wanted to offload Walman for literally nothing, and attach a 2nd to boot. Someone should've informed him he had cap space. But ya, what a great GM, big brained move only Wings fans can truly understand and appreciate.

Meanwhile in Ottawa, they're on their third year in a row of giving up a 1st for an upcoming UFA who isn't willing to commit to the organization...

Maybe Yzerman should go with that approach?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Some people have a point about Colorado. Why didn't Yzerman draft a point-per-game perennial Norris contender yet? Is he stupid?

 

[Shane Diesel]

Their entire top line from the Cup win was drafted before 16/17, so your point is still illogical.

How so? MacKinnon and Rantanen were secondary players as of 16/17. They didn't become impact performers until 17/18.

I guess if your definition of a rebuild means literally starting from scratch then you'd have a point. So in that case let's just ignore the fact Detroit has had a Landeskog-esque forward in Larkin for the past eight seasons, drafted a top pairing defender that has been a contributor for the past three seasons and another top six forward in Raymond.

But even in that scenario, Vegas went from not existing to a Cup win in five seasons.

I'm sure you'll give me more excuses they're the worst team to ever exist, though.

 

[Shane Diesel]

The funny part in this whole thing is I don't even think Yzerman is that great of a GM. The difference is I'm objective enough to know that "rebuilds" take more than 5 years. To hold him to a standard that no other rebuilding team in recent history has met is luludicrous.

Except if you're Colorado or Vegas.

Some people have a point about Colorado. Why didn't Yzerman draft a point-per-game perennial Norris contender yet? Is he stupid?

I guess he isn't the drafting genius his fans in Tampa made him out to be.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Meanwhile in Ottawa, they're on their third year in a row of giving up a 1st for an upcoming UFA who isn't willing to commit to the organization...

Maybe Yzerman should go with that approach?

Ya that was a shrewd move giving up 25OA to get rid of 4 years of Korpisalo contract, and get a recent Vezina winner.
Why is he unwilling to sign there? You made that up.

 

[izlez]

He did a good job in Tampa Bay. This article below is a refresher.



This is from his Tampa wiki.



His biggest flaw there was drafting in the 1st round. He pretty much whiffed on all of their 1st rounders from 2010-2014, but yet somehow found amazing players beyond the 1st. Maybe that's luck, maybe it's scouting.


He's been pretty much awful in Detroit.

Man, what a jarring turn at the end of that post.

I don't know how you go from posting about players taken over the span of 5-6 drafts, that didn't become impactful NHL players until their D+3 or D+4 or D+5 years, and come to the conclusion that he's been awful in Detroit because he hasn't built a contender after 5 years.

 

[Mobiandi]

No wonder the NHL is such an old boys club with so many Wings fans accepting the below average job Stevie Y has done

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

I'm not sure there's good and bad GMs anymore, certainly not like there used to be when it was just hockey men making gut decisions. Most FOs are pretty collaborative with scouts and analytics getting a voice in the process, all the insights of the "fancy stats" movement such as age curves, cost control, and play driving have been pretty much swallowed up by all GMs and any obvious edge there is gone. No one is trying to rebuild any other way than through the top of the draft.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Ya that was a shrewd move giving up 25OA to get rid of 4 years of Korpisalo contract, and get a recent Vezina winner.
Why is he unwilling to sign there? You made that up.

Don't know if he is or not but he hasn't yet. Hence "Unwilling to commit". When he does, he'll be willing.

Reading is hard.

How so? MacKinnon and Rantanen were secondary players as of 16/17. They didn't become impact performers until 17/18.

I guess if your definition of a rebuild means literally starting from scratch then you'd have a point. So in that case let's just ignore the fact Detroit has had a Landeskog-esque forward in Larkin for the past eight seasons, drafted a top pairing defender that has been a contributor for the past three seasons and another top six forward in Raymond.

But even in that scenario, Vegas went from not existing to a Cup win in five seasons.

I'm sure you'll give me more excuses they're the worst team to ever exist, though.

When your argument has gone so badly that you have to bring up a team created from an expansion draft...

 

[Shane Diesel]

When your argument has gone so badly that you have to bring up a team created from an expansion draft...

How so? Posters are saying using the Avalanche is a bad comparison because the Wings were so poor and lacked talent.

Vegas literally didn't exist, had no prospect pipe-line or infrastructure, no coaching staff, etc. and won a Cup within five years.

Quite damning for Yzerman and Detroit, don't you think?

If you have better examples I'm all ears.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

How so? Posters are saying using the Avalanche is a bad comparison because the Wings were so poor and lacked talent.

Vegas literally didn't exist, had no prospect pipe-line or infrastructure, no coaching staff, etc. and won a Cup within five years.

Quite damning for Yzerman and Detroit, don't you think?

If you have better examples I'm all ears.

The Vegas example is weird though since they are basically more successful than 29 teams in the entire league since their expansion draft lol. Doesn't just apply to Detroit