Steve Yzerman is not a good GM.

[izlez]

I guess he isn't the drafting genius his fans in Tampa made him out to be.

Which point-per-game perennial Norris contender did he pass on? Or is it his job to secretly manufacture these guys in a lab?

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

How so? Posters are saying using the Avalanche is a bad comparison because the Wings were so poor and lacked talent.

Vegas literally didn't exist, had no prospect pipe-line or infrastructure, no coaching staff, etc. and won a Cup within five years.

Quite damning for Yzerman and Detroit, don't you think?

If you have better examples I'm all ears.

If you're done claiming the Avs rebuild started after they had lottery picks, or that a team created from an expansion draft is comparable to a team a GM took over as they were bottoming out, I'm all ears.

 

[Shane Diesel]

Which point-per-game perennial Norris contender did he pass on? Or is it his job to secretly manufacture these guys in a lab?

He drafted a HOF goalie at 18 and Brayden Point in the third round. Why are you making excuses for Stevie Y?

If you're done claiming the Avs rebuild started after they had lottery picks, I'm all ears.

You have trouble staying on topic, I thought we were discussing Vegas.

The Avs had lottery picks through 18/19, which I've discussed at length.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

He drafted a HOF goalie at 18 and Brayden Point in the third round. Why are you making excuses for Stevie Y?


You have trouble staying on topic, I thought we were discussing Vegas.

The Avs had lottery picks through 18/19, which I've discussed at length.

I edited the post. Maybe if you quit changing the topic every time one of your arguments implodes you wouldn't have such a hard time getting people to stay on it.

 

[Shane Diesel]

The Vegas example is weird though since they are basically more successful than 29 teams in the entire league since their expansion draft lol. Doesn't just apply to Detroit

The '04 Penguins finished with 58 points and won a Cup in '09.

I can give you guys examples all day of rebuilds that took five years.

 

[izlez]

He drafted a HOF goalie at 18 and Brayden Point in the third round. Why are you making excuses for Stevie Y?

Which Hall of Fame goalies, 1st line centers, and perennial norris contenders did he ACTUALLY pass on since he's been in Detroit.

He can't draft a Brayden Point in the 3rd round if there is no Brayden Point there to draft in the 3rd rounds

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

The '04 Penguins finished with 58 points and won a Cup in '09.

I can give you guys examples all day of rebuilds that took five years.

The Pens picked Top 2 four years in a row from 03-06. You done making shit arguments?

 

[Shane Diesel]

I edited the post. Maybe if you quit changing the topic every time one of your arguments implodes you wouldn't have such a hard time getting people to stay on it.

How so? I've consistently argued that a five year window is enough time to build a contender and I continue to provide examples of such.

That's not changing the topic.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

How so? I've consistently argued that a five year window is enough time to build a contender and I continue to provide examples of such.

That's not changing the topic.

Yes. Examples like the Penguins, whose average pick position from 03-06 was 1.5.

 

[Shane Diesel]

The Pens picked Top 2 four years in a row. You done making shit arguments?

I could give you a hundred examples, you'd just say it's a poor comparison in one way or another no matter what.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I could give you a hundred examples, you'd just say it's a poor comparison in one way or another no matter what.

When you come up with one that isn't shit, let me know.

How could Yzerman be so f***ing stupid to not draft a Crosby and Malkin level player two years in a row. It's easy!

 

[Shane Diesel]

When you come up with one that isn't shit, let me know.

I don't believe you have the requisite league knowledge to be any sort of judge on that.

 

[ON3M4N]

Except if you're Colorado or Vegas.


I guess he isn't the drafting genius his fans in Tampa made him out to be.

Colorado's rebuild goes back to 2011 lol. Lets just say it doesn't though and it started with the Rantanen selection (as your previous post tried to suggest). Rantanen was drafted in 2015, therefore the "rebuild" would have kicked off during the 2014-2015 season. The Av's won the cup in the 2021-2022 season, which would mean that it took 8 seasons to go from rebuild to cup winner. So my point still stands. You're holding the Detroit rebuild to a standard that no other rebuilding team has come close to achieving.

Vegas makes no sense. They haven't even been around long enough to have to go into a "rebuild" like we're talking about.

 

[Shane Diesel]

Colorado's rebuild goes back to 2011 lol. Lets just say it doesn't though and it started with the Rantanen selection (as your previous post tried to suggest). Rantanen was drafted in 2015, therefore the "rebuild" would have kicked off during the 2014-2015 season. The Av's won the cup in the 2021-2022 season, which would mean that it took 8 seasons to go from rebuild to cup winner. So my point still stands. You're holding the Detroit rebuild to a standard that no other rebuilding team has come close to achieving.

Vegas makes no sense. They haven't even been around long enough to have to go into a "rebuild" like we're talking about.

I've now given three examples of teams that turned things around in five years. But my post from above stands:

I could give you a hundred examples, you'd just say it's a poor comparison in one way or another no matter what.

 

[Shane Diesel]

How could Yzerman be so f***ing stupid to not draft a Crosby and Malkin level player two years in a row. It's easy!

So success comes down to luck more than anything else and previous drafting results don't mean much?

I don't disagree, but building a team covers more facets than just the draft.

 

[Golden_Jet]

If you're done claiming the Avs rebuild started after they had lottery picks, or that a team created from an expansion draft is comparable to a team a GM took over as they were bottoming out, I'm all ears.

if you’re going to count the early AVS picks, then you need to include the wings picks before SY and the time spent rebuilding as well before SY.

 

[izlez]

Florida (the team that just won the cup, IIIRC) drafted 3rd overall in 2010, 3rd overall in 2011, 2nd overall in 2013, and 1st overall in 2014 (heyyy they didn't complete their 2010 rebuild by 2014).

They used those players, or assets from those players (along with other players at the top of those drafts) to win the cup. And they look like they will be a powerhouse moving forward with those players.

Why would anyone think rebuilds take time.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I don't believe you have the requisite league knowledge to be any sort of judge on that.

Coming from the guy who used the mid 2000s Penguins as an example of how rebuilding isn't that hard...

 

[Habs Halifax]

He's a good GM that had more luck in Tampa vs what he is having in Detroit. Just goes to show that building through the draft is not that easy. A lot of luck is involved.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

So success comes down to luck more than anything else and previous drafting results don't mean much?

I don't disagree, but building a team covers more facets than just the draft.

Have you looked at Pittsburgh's drafting over the last 20 years?

Because it f***ing sucks.

 

[Shane Diesel]

Coming from the guy who used the mid 2000s Penguins as an example of how rebuilding isn't that hard...

What does that have to do with anything?

Detroit fans claim a rebuild takes more than five years, I've now provided three separate examples of three different teams that became contenders in a five year period. I'm sorry you don't like that, but it doesn't change reality.

 

[izlez]

So success comes down to luck more than anything else and previous drafting results don't mean much?

I don't disagree, but building a team covers more facets than just the draft.

Using the benefit of hindsight, please build us a powerhouse of a team that Yzerman had the option of drafting from the 2019 drafts and later

 

[ON3M4N]

I've now given three examples of teams that turned things around in five years. But my post from above stands:

No, no you haven't. Colorado didn't do it in 5yrs and I laid that out to you....you just keep ignoring it. Vegas has never gone into a rebuild. Their only 5yrs into the league and the team was built under significantly different circumstances. Who was the 3rd example you gave?

 

[Shane Diesel]

No, no you haven't. Colorado didn't do it in 5yrs and I laid that out to you....you just keep ignoring it. Vegas has never gone into a rebuild. Their only 5yrs into the league and the team was built under significantly different circumstances. Who was the 3rd example you gave?

I see, Detroit is unique and was bad in a way the league has never seen, thus there are no comparisons.

You guys are hysterical.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

if you’re going to count the early AVS picks, then you need to include the wings picks before SY and the time spent rebuilding as well before SY.

Yes. We'll compare Yzerman starting with Rasmussen and Zadina to the Avs having Landeskog and MacKinnon if you like.

You're right. Ken Holland really set him up for success there!