Steve Yzerman is not a good GM.

[FriendlyGhost92]

Yup. This is Yzerman’s first rebuild group and they aren’t looking so good. He might have to pivot

He's literally graduated two of his 8 1st round picks since he took over...

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

How so?


Yeah, no kidding.

The Duchene - O'Reilly - Johnson rebuild starting in 2009 failed. We saw O'Reilly shipped out in 2015 and Duchene traded in 2017. The leadership of the team then moved to MacKinnon and Rantanen beginning in 2017. Makar doesn't see regular season ice until 2019.


If that's the logic we're going to use, that a rebuild starts as soon as one of the core players is drafted, then Detroit has been rebuilding since 15/16, or Larkin's first year. Detroit is now going on year ten with nothing to show for it. Ouch.

The 16/17 season is generally viewed as the beginning of the current core's window, just because Landeskog and MacKinnon were on the team prior to that season doesn't mean the team was in the same organizational cycle.

What I think you're ignoring is that the Avs' first attempt at a rebuild, which got them Duchene, Landeskog, O'Reilly, Barrie, etc., gave Sakic a lot of trade capital to use to build his team. ROR got shipped out for Compher and Zadorov plus a 2nd. Duchene brought back Girard, a 1st (Byram), plus more youth. Barrie got traded for Kadri. And Landeskog and EJ both played important roles for the team up until recently.

The fact that their window finally opened in 2017/18 is because of all the foundational work that was being done since Sakic took over the GM role in 2013. That's when the Sakic build that led to the Cup win really started.


For his part, Yzerman has been working on his foundation for the last 4 years. He's got a good cornerstone in Seider, with Larkin and Raymond both looking pretty good. But there's not much beyond the few top guys, so he needs some of his later picks from 2020 and 2021 to start filling in role positions, and giving them the depth necessary to really compete in this league.

 

[dekelikekocur]

What I think you're ignoring is that the Avs' first attempt at a rebuild, which got them Duchene, Landeskog, O'Reilly, Barrie, etc., gave Sakic a lot of trade capital to use to build his team. ROR got shipped out for Compher and Zadorov plus a 2nd. Duchene brought back Girard, a 1st (Byram), plus more youth. Barrie got traded for Kadri. And Landeskog and EJ both played important roles for the team up until recently.

The fact that their window finally opened in 2017/18 is because of all the foundational work that was being done since Sakic took over the GM role in 2013. That's when the Sakic build that led to the Cup win really started.


For his part, Yzerman has been working on his foundation for the last 4 years. He's got a good cornerstone in Seider, with Larkin and Raymond both looking pretty good. But there's not much beyond the few top guys, so he needs some of his later picks from 2020 and 2021 to start filling in role positions, and giving them the depth necessary to really compete in this league.

Ed should be up this year. Hoping we see Mazur sooner than later, Kasper/Danielson I think get call ups this year. Cossa/Augstine are primed to compete with one another and hopefully drive either other to excel and start making appearances next year or the following. Past that I don't really pay attention to our lower round draft picks.

 

[Fatass]

He's literally graduated two of his 8 1st round picks since he took over...

All clubs going through their rebuilding phase have some first round misses. Hopefully those misses are covered by some hits in the later rounds. Or via trade or free agent signings. But it’s usually via the draft that establishes the key core players. Other than Seider, who has Yzerman brought in that would be a key core piece on a winning team?

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

For his part, Yzerman has been working on his foundation for the last 4 years. He's got a good cornerstone in Seider, with Larkin and Raymond both looking pretty good. But there's not much beyond the few top guys, so he needs some of his later picks from 2020 and 2021 to start filling in role positions, and giving them the depth necessary to really compete in this league.

Later rounds haven't really looked promising but where we've lucked out is all his 1sts still look like solid NHLers.

19 and 20 drafts are likely busts outside Wallinder and AlJo. It's 2021 where it gets interesting with Buium/Mazur/Savage.

All clubs going through their rebuilding phase have some first round misses. Hopefully those misses are covered by some hits in the later rounds. Or via trade or free agent signings. But it’s usually via the draft that establishes the key core players. Other than Seider, who has Yzerman brought in that would be a key core piece on a winning team?

Dunno man, that Raymond guy f***ing sucks.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Later rounds haven't really looked promising but where we've lucked out is all his 1sts still look like solid NHLers.

19 and 20 drafts are likely busts outside Wallinder and AlJo. It's 2021 where it gets interesting with Buium/Mazur/Savage.

Later rounds are always a crap shoot, but if one or two of the guys you named can find a spot somewhere in the lineup for the Red Wings over the next year or two, it'll definitely help fill out the roster with quality players and avoid having to scrape the UFA barrel for another overpriced plug.

 

[norrisnick]

All clubs going through their rebuilding phase have some first round misses. Hopefully those misses are covered by some hits in the later rounds. Or via trade or free agent signings. But it’s usually via the draft that establishes the key core players. Other than Seider, who has Yzerman brought in that would be a key core piece on a winning team?

You used to be a lot more subtle. Now you're fishing with dynamite...

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Later rounds are always a crap shoot, but if one or two of the guys you named can find a spot somewhere in the lineup for the Red Wings over the next year or two, it'll definitely help fill out the roster with quality players and avoid having to scrape the UFA barrel for another overpriced plug.

It's a sink or swim year for AlJo considering there's just about zero chance he passes through waivers. Mazur's probably more important, to be honest, simply because Detroit has Edvinsson in a LHD role with the hopes that any of AlJo/Wallinder/Buium pan out.

The upside for Detroit is many of their "Major roles" have been or are about to be filled. Seider is their top RHD. Edvinsson is likely their top LHD, even if he's kept 2nd pairing to be on the ice when Seider isn't. Raymond established himself as a legit top line winger this season.

It'd be nice if Danielson was good enough to push Larkin to the 2C role, but Larkin is still an adequate 1C, and I think Danielson has a good chance at Top 6 himself.

So for these other guys I dunno that there's necessarily a need to be elite NHLers, just solid middle 6/bottom 4 guys. Another Top line winger would help, and it'd be nice if MBN fills that role.

 

[ON3M4N]

How so?


Yeah, no kidding.

The Duchene - O'Reilly - Johnson rebuild starting in 2009 failed. We saw O'Reilly shipped out in 2015 and Duchene traded in 2017. The leadership of the team then moved to MacKinnon and Rantanen beginning in 2017. Makar doesn't see regular season ice until 2019.


If that's the logic we're going to use, that a rebuild starts as soon as one of the core players is drafted, then Detroit has been rebuilding since 15/16, or Larkin's first year. Detroit is now going on year ten with nothing to show for it. Ouch.

The 16/17 season is generally viewed as the beginning of the current core's window, just because Landeskog and MacKinnon were on the team prior to that season doesn't mean the franchise was in the same organizational cycle.

Especially after winning the division in 13/14 and attempting to make the playoffs by adding at the trade deadline the next two seasons.

Its not really "core player" its more of when did the team start drafting regularly in the top 10. Larkin was a 15th OA pick. His rookie year Detroit still had guys like Zetterberg & Datsyuk around and they finished 3rd in the Atlantic. The follow year Datsyuk went back to Russia and Zetterberg played his final season. It was 2017 when we started to see Detroit regularly draft inside the top 10. In fact in the last 8 drafts they've had a top 10 picks 7 times. They're 7-8 years into a rebuild. In the last 4 years they've seen their P% getting better year over year. This past season they had as many points as the final playoffs team in the East, they just lost the tie-breaker.

 

[Ezekial]

Other than Seider, who has Yzerman brought in that would be a key core piece on a winning team?​

Only one U23 player outscored Lucas Raymond last year and that was Jack Hughes.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

It's a sink or swim year for AlJo considering there's just about zero chance he passes through waivers. Mazur's probably more important, to be honest, simply because Detroit has Edvinsson in a LHD role with the hopes that any of AlJo/Wallinder/Buium pan out.

The upside for Detroit is many of their "Major roles" have been or are about to be filled. Seider is their top RHD. Edvinsson is likely their top LHD, even if he's kept 2nd pairing to be on the ice when Seider isn't. Raymond established himself as a legit top line winger this season.

It'd be nice if Danielson was good enough to push Larkin to the 2C role, but Larkin is still an adequate 1C, and I think Danielson has a good chance at Top 6 himself.

So for these other guys I dunno that there's necessarily a need to be elite NHLers, just solid middle 6/bottom 4 guys. Another Top line winger would help, and it'd be nice if MBN fills that role.

I agree that the mid round picks only need to be solid middle 6/bottom 4 guys, and that's exactly what I'm talking about. There's still a lot of roles to fill, even if the major ones appear to already be set. And the youngsters don't have to be elite to still be a big upgrade over the best the UFA market has to offer at a comparable cap hit. If Mazur can be a solid middle 6er for 3-5 years at an affordable cap hit, that's a win. Same with one or more of those defensemen being a capable bottom 4 guy for a few years.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Yzerman is a bust as GM (akin to Gretz coaching)...only thing he has left is nostalgia.

 

[thegazelle]

Yzerman is a bust as GM (akin to Gretz coaching)...only thing he has left is nostalgia.

I don't know if the Gretzky to Yzerman comparison is fair. As far I know, Gretzky only coached the Coyotes and I think the consensus was that it wasn't great, to say the least. Yzerman, however, has been the GM of the Lightning and from what I have seen, he was a very good GM, building a very good competitive team, who won the Cup the year after he left. Yzerman has had initial success at his first venture as a GM whereas Gretzky's first coaching gig was a flop.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Only one U23 player outscored Lucas Raymond last year and that was Jack Hughes.

Even more fun... 5 on 5 production:

13. William Nylander - 59 points

14. Brayden Point - 58 points

15. Zach Hyman - 57 points
Mitch Marner - 57 points (69 games)

17. Elias Petterson - 56 points
Robert Thomas - 56 points

19. Lucas Raymond - 55 points
Jake Guentzel - 55 points (67 games)
Sam Reinhart - 55 points
Sebastian Aho - 55 points
Mathew Barzal - 55 points
Kirill Kaprizov - 55 points
Matthew Tkachuk - 55 points
Jesper Bratt - 55 points

Whole bunch of non-core players in Raymond's company there!

 

[SENStastic]

It's factually true, nobody else will say it because It's Yzerman but it is the reality of the situation.

The man has been GM in Detroit since April 19 2019, and in that time the team has played in a grand total of 0 playoff games and let's be honest they don't look they are making it next year either, in fact they look like they took a step back.

Other than possibly replacing Perron with Tarasenko NOTHING Yzerman did this off season was good.

Trading Wallman and a 2nd literally for free, and then not replacing him was an awful choice.

Signing Jack Campbell and Cam Talbot was an awful choice because all it does is create a logjam in net, and yeah I know Campbell is probably going to be in the AHL but that still leaves you with 3 goaltenders that all expect NHL minutes and you can't give NHL minutes to 3 goalies that all know they are at least backups at this point.

lol people been saying it for a couple years now, don't know where youre getting the notion that no one has pointed this out before. It's mostly cultish-level following from Wings fans that have had the blind belief in the Yzerplan, more objective people outside that bubble have woken up to his mediocrity for a few years now.

The fact of the matter is, you wont be able to get through to those devoted fans no matter what you point out, it will only come with time, despite the long drought they still have patience with him, since apparently the 3 prior years before him dont count in their mind. Crazy, but its true. I'm starting to see some Sens fans playing the same mental gymnastics with the new management, claiming it resets the clock on the rebuild since Dorion was an idiot and Staios needs several more years to turn things around, but im not buying that BS line of logic, its been ages for us too and alot of us are fed up, not to mention some of the players that'd been here through it all as well, they wont have that much patience just cause there's been a regime change, they aint getting any younger, I sure as hell don't see Brady being that patient.

My guess things will take a turn for better or worse in 2-3years time when the core is set in place and are in their prime, by then his most recent draft picks the franchise is banking on of ASP, Danielson, Kasper, Cossa and Edvidsson would have established themselves on the roster, and the staples of DBC, Seider, Larkin and Raymond will be in their prime. If that team is still a bubble team fighting for a playoff spot then too, thats when you'll hear his fans start turning sour, but I don't think many will until that point..

I personally don't see that roster turning into a perennial contender, Wings fans will probably disagree, but time will need to bear that out either way.

 

[TKB]

I personally don't see that roster turning into a perennial contender, Wings fans will probably disagree, but time will need to bear that out either way.

FTR I would say most Wings fans certainly undertand there are no guarantess and the jury will be out for a while regarding SFY's ultimate success in Detroit.

We just can;t help but shake our heads and laugh at the endless, ignorant takes on the situation in Detroit.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

Not everyone is Zito.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

He's 5 years in and they just barely missed the playoffs due to a tiebreaker.
I'd say he's doing fine.

 

[Shane Diesel]

Its not really "core player" its more of when did the team start drafting regularly in the top 10. Larkin was a 15th OA pick. His rookie year Detroit still had guys like Zetterberg & Datsyuk around and they finished 3rd in the Atlantic. The follow year Datsyuk went back to Russia and Zetterberg played his final season. It was 2017 when we started to see Detroit regularly draft inside the top 10. In fact in the last 8 drafts they've had a top 10 picks 7 times. They're 7-8 years into a rebuild. In the last 4 years they've seen their P% getting better year over year. This past season they had as many points as the final playoffs team in the East, they just lost the tie-breaker.

Sweet.

2015: Ranranen (10th)
2016: Jost (10th)
2017: Makar (4th)
2018: Kaut (16th)
2019: Byram (4th)

My point stands, it took the Avs more or less five seasons from 16/17 to 21/22 to win a Cup. Most of their top ten picks fall within this timeline.

What's Yzerman's excuse?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

To those asking what Yzerman should be doing differently look at the Laine trade there is your answer.

A good GM like Kent Hughes will weaponize his cap space so that he can take good players at low value and get an asset to do so.

The Laine trade is a risk but for the price they paid It's well worth it.

Bad GM'S like Steve Yzerman don't weaponize their cap space instead they give away cheap RHD for free and ADD 2nd round picks to do it.

 

[Borlag]

Agreed, they're currently tied last with a grand total of 0 points. Just throw away the season already

 

[SirKillalot]

To those asking what Yzerman should be doing differently look at the Laine trade there is your answer.

A great GM doesn't trade for Laine at all. He hasn't played a full season in 6 years and used last half of last season in the NHL/NHLPA Players Assistance Program. And, he is only 26 years old.

A risk that is not worth it at all.

 

[ON3M4N]

Sweet.

2015: Ranranen (10th)
2016: Jost (10th)
2017: Makar (4th)
2018: Kaut (16th)
2019: Byram (4th)

My point stands, it took the Avs more or less five seasons from 16/17 to 21/22 to win a Cup. Most of their top ten picks fall within this timeline.

What's Yzerman's excuse?

Don't forget Landeskog in 2011 & MacKinnon in 2013....I know it doesn't support your narrative though. Before you try and twist my words, I said consistently, not consecutively. Their 2012 pick was #11OA, but they had traded for Varlamov. 2014 they had an outlier good season before.

The funny part in this whole thing is I don't even think Yzerman is that great of a GM. The difference is I'm objective enough to know that "rebuilds" take more than 5 years. To hold him to a standard that no other rebuilding team in recent history has met is ludicrous.

 

[SoupNazi]

You made it very clear:

If you haven’t made then post season in 5 years, you’re a failure.

So why is there suddenly context?

The goalposts aren't just moving - they've gotten onto a jet and taken off.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Sweet.

2015: Ranranen (10th)
2016: Jost (10th)
2017: Makar (4th)
2018: Kaut (16th)
2019: Byram (4th)

My point stands, it took the Avs more or less five seasons from 16/17 to 21/22 to win a Cup. Most of their top ten picks fall within this timeline.

What's Yzerman's excuse?

Mac..
The early first rounders delt that Stevie didn't have.