Blue Jays Discussion: Steve Pearce: comeback machine

[zeke]

I think though, the next 8 days are a critical moment in the Shapiro era and how it will go. I still think the large majority of moves Shapiro and Atkins have made, have been positive, so the trust is there that they can make the good moves. However, are we going to go into a rebuild? A big retool? Or look for a piece or two to help a bit this year, but try and get the team back into contendership next season.

- If we think Bichette is our future 2B, which he likely is, and he'll be MLB ready in 2019, do we see if Travis has any trade value to improve elsewhere, and look for a stopgap for 2018?
- We have Alford, Smith Jr as young players pretty much ready in the OF, so what do we do with our 4 current outfielders? I think Jose is a decent bet to move, but what about Pillar?
- Donaldson isn't going to move in the next week, but that decision likely weighs a lot on what we do in the next week.

It's insanely complicated really.

not all that complicated. just keep drafting and adding to this future roster:

CF Pillar
RF Alford
LF Pompey
3B Bichette
SS Warmoth
2B Travis
1B Guerrero
DH Tellez
C Jansen

UT Pentecost
OF Smith
IF Urena
C McGuire


SP Stroman
SP Sanchez
SP Osuna
SP SRF
SP Maese
SP Zeuch

RP Pearson
RP Greene
RP Barnes
RP Biagini
RP Tepera
RP Loup
RP Rios
RP Borucki

 

[ToneDog]

I have a feeling thag shapkins supporters will be just as disappointed with the halfarsed rebuild as i've been disappointed with the half-arsed attempt to contend.

Hoping you are wrong but would bet you are right.

 

[zeke]

.

I'm mostly just sick of people acting like he was a great GM, when he wasn't. He had strengths and he had some luck, but the way people crap on Shapiro because he's not AA is ridiculous.

Let me rephrase. I'm sick of the Shapiro vs AA crap. Shapiro wanted AA to stay. AA chose to leave. Stop hating on Shapiro because of it.

1. crapping on shapiro (and Rogers going with bean counters) actually is independent of AA.
2. AA's track record as GM is pretty damn great, especially given that this was his first shot at the gig. We'll be lucky if future GMs can match him.

 

[Cor]

1. crapping on shapiro (and Rogers going with bean counters) actually is independent of AA.
2. AA's track record as GM is pretty damn great, especially given that this was his first shot at the gig. We'll be lucky if future GMs can match him.

Come on Zeke, that's crap. The people who crap on Shapiro and Atkins are the same ones who believe AA's **** doesn't stink.

As for his track record, it's debatable. AA was a solid GM, but "great" is pushing it.

 

[Eyedea]

feel free to subtract 100+m in other useless commitmments to your equation.

You're still paying Price ~150m (remove Estrada + Happ 62m), Encarnacion ~30m (remove Morales 33m), and Fowler ~65m (remove Bautista's 18.5m). So an extra ~245m on top of a .500 club, sorry.

better than wamco.

93 v 15 wrc+

Olerud 179 -------- Donaldson 154
Molitor 144 ------- Encarnacion 150
Alomar 142 ------- Bautista 148
Fernandez 114 -- Colabello 142
White 109 --------- Travis 135
Carter 108 --------- Martin 114
Henderson 90 ---- Revere 102
Sprague 85 -------- Pillar 93
Borders 72 --------- Tulowitzki 91

Knorr 98 -------- Smoak 108
Coles 85 -------- Carrera 90
Ward 59 --------- Goins 84
Jackson 56 ---- Navarro 84
Schofield 49 ---- Pompey 81

Balance. The 2015 team didn't boast the OBP and speed that the '93 guys possessed.

 

[Leafin]

AA was solid. He got a fair shake in terms of time to figure it out. He got us the closest to a championship in 25 years. Definitely deserves credit for that.

Shapiro and Atkins deserve more time before judgment is passed. No one could've really predicted this team would fall off this quickly. Injuries have played a major part. Would be hard to predict that the majority of our guys would under perform their historical production to this level. Then again Shatkins didn't allocate the funds they did have well enough to protect themselves from this type of fall. Morales has been a disaster. Pearce is decent but can't stay healthy. Howell? Bautista hasn't been good enough. Losing EE is the biggest screw up they've made so far and even he wouldn't be able to save this team.

My guess is we don't see much movement heading towards the deadline. Maybe a minor move like Smith. No one is taking Liriano or Estrada at this point. Bautista could be moved. Unless another team overpays i wouldn't move Happ. We don't have the depth in starters to accommodate that kind of move.

 

[dredeye]

Gut feeling is that Liriano will be traded to the Yankees. Don't know why but I feel like that's where he ends up

 

[ToneDog]

Gut feeling is that Liriano will be traded to the Yankees. Don't know why but I feel like that's where he ends up

I don't think the Yanks are desperate enough to add a gas can.

 

[habamillions]

Gut feeling is that Liriano will be traded to the Yankees. Don't know why but I feel like that's where he ends up

Jays made there season saving trade with the yankees a few minutes ago. Acquiring rob refsnyder lol.

 

[Dr.Funk]

The Blue Jays have acquired infielder/outfielder Rob Refsnyder from the Yankees for first baseman Ryan McBroom

 

[habamillions]

Refsynder will go to buffalo

 

[ToneDog]

You're still paying Price ~150m (remove Estrada + Happ 62m), Encarnacion ~30m (remove Morales 33m), and Fowler ~65m (remove Bautista's 18.5m). So an extra ~245m on top of a .500 club, sorry.



Balance. The 2015 team didn't boast the OBP and speed that the '93 guys possessed.

The 1993 team have World Series ring(s). That trumps anything the 2015 team have over them stats wise. Tell you one thing neither the 1992 or 1993 teams would have frittered away home field advantage like the 2015 team did as soon as they clinched the East.

 

[canucksfan]

The Blue Jays have acquired infielder/outfielder Rob Refsnyder from the Yankees for first baseman Ryan McBroom

Wonder why they did that?

 

[ToneDog]

Wonder why they did that?

Rob Refsnyder, whom the Yankees once viewed as their second baseman of the future, was designated for assignment last week and will almost certainly end up with an opportunity to play more regularly somewhere else than he did over the last three seasons with the Yankees.

Jays throwing a dart and seeing if it sticks ?

 

[Al14]

Jays are ... well ... aw-inspiring!

 

[GoonieFace]

AA was solid. He got a fair shake in terms of time to figure it out. He got us the closest to a championship in 25 years. Definitely deserves credit for that.

Shapiro and Atkins deserve more time before judgment is passed. No one could've really predicted this team would fall off this quickly. Injuries have played a major part. Would be hard to predict that the majority of our guys would under perform their historical production to this level. Then again Shatkins didn't allocate the funds they did have well enough to protect themselves from this type of fall. Morales has been a disaster. Pearce is decent but can't stay healthy. Howell? Bautista hasn't been good enough. Losing EE is the biggest screw up they've made so far and even he wouldn't be able to save this team.

My guess is we don't see much movement heading towards the deadline. Maybe a minor move like Smith. No one is taking Liriano or Estrada at this point. Bautista could be moved. Unless another team overpays i wouldn't move Happ. We don't have the depth in starters to accommodate that kind of move.

Morales a disaster? You ok?

 

[Al14]

Morales a disaster? You ok?

Smoak is the only one who hasn't been a disaster!

 

[trellaine201]

At least we got younger with Refsnyder. . No idea whether he is signed past this year but maybe a backup or utility player. Young enough to take a chance.

 

[Leafin]

Morales a disaster? You ok?

Walk% down. Strikeout% up. OBP hovering .300. 2nd lower wrc+ in his 8 year career.

2 more years for a 34 year old DH that has declined all across board? I was hopeful we'd see a better Morales. He's been underwhelming to say the least. Bordering on a disaster and if his production slips further as he ages than yea... its a disaster signing.

He's also taking up a pretty valuable DH slot from the rest of the team. Martin, Tulo, Donaldson could all use more time in that DH slot. Pearce is a significantly better hitter that would benefit from seeing more DH time.

 

[habamillions]

At least we got younger with Refsnyder. . No idea whether he is signed past this year but maybe a backup or utility player. Young enough to take a chance.

Begins arbitration in 2019.

 

[trellaine201]

They wouldn't trade Smoak would they? Would have to think Smoak has peaked? Max value maybe? Still signed for one more season.

I'm not saying we should but wonder if management would.

 

[canucksfan]

They wouldn't trade Smoak would they? Would have to think Smoak has peaked? Max value maybe? Still signed for one more season.

I'm not saying we should but wonder if management would.

I would if a team overpaid for him.

 

[TF97]

Morales a disaster? You ok?

Morales has absolutely been a disaster.

 

[Paladin2799]

Walk% down. Strikeout% up. OBP hovering .300. 2nd lower wrc+ in his 8 year career.

2 more years for a 34 year old DH that has declined all across board? I was hopeful we'd see a better Morales. He's been underwhelming to say the least. Bordering on a disaster and if his production slips further as he ages than yea... its a disaster signing.

He's also taking up a pretty valuable DH slot from the rest of the team. Martin, Tulo, Donaldson could all use more time in that DH slot. Pearce is a significantly better hitter that would benefit from seeing more DH time.

Honestly, he is a servicable DH right now, and just like the patrick marleau deal, I'm not really super worried about another 2 years on the deal.

We need veteran bodies in the lineup even if we do a rebuild and his contract is not a boat anchor for us.

Remember vernon wells deal? Thats a boat anchor.

 

[GoonieFace]

Morales has absolutely been a disaster.

Theres a difference between a disappointment and a disaster, he is hardly a disaster.