OT: Star Wars: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread (SPOILERS!!!!)

[The Rage Kage]

Wheres the alien representation in this film! All the aliens are cannon fodder simply to propel the human characters forward. Its time we change this disgusting practice in holywood.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

His lack of self-awareness if startling to say the least

It's not even worth addressing anymore because it is beneath any level of decency.

While I disagreed with you guys on the studio meddling issue that I see, I'm with the two of you on this. This guy's comments are way over the top and I feel bad for taking a stance at all related to his.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Funny tweet but it really misses the mark other than the feminist agenda part.

Classic! Hahaha

 

[WIP CALLER]

This is such a good summary of why this film failed to evoke any sort of interest from me. Not only that but this film was not entertaining or interesting. The only interesting character they have developed is Rey. Poe, and Fen are annoying, though Fen is much better in this one.

However here is the thing, these films are going to cash in bigtime regardless if they are good or not. Nothing they put on screen will ever prevent the masses from not showing up.

last paragraph is spot on. they could make a rom com star wars with no action scenes and it would be sold out everywhere opening night.

 

[WIP CALLER]

I saw it last night and came away feeling meh about it. It wasn't a great film but I wouldn't say it was attack of the clones level bad either. imo it doesn't touch any of the original 3 movies where the first one I could understand someone making an argument for top 3 even though not me personally. This one just felt very just average and even mediocre at times. The script was very Michael bay-ish. I didn't see any huge plot holes but I thought the plot itself was just very basic and childish even. Action scenes were still very enjoyable except for the whole leia in space thing which was honestly hysterical. I was laughing in the theatre at how ridiculous it was. The dialogue was cringe at times especially the "comic relief." I also agree it was made more to the suits ideas to make the most money but the movie having a feminist agenda is an interesting take away from the movie. I didn't get that feeling while watching it but I did get the feeling it was made with the sole purpose of making it as broad of an appeal to people as possible to make the most amount of money possible. i would give it a 5/10. Not good but not bad, if I went in expecting a mindless flick I probably would have enjoyed it more.

also not related at all to the movie but had to lol at whoever said feminism = equality. maybe originally but 3rd wave feminism currently is cancer and more about embracing the victim mentality, shaming males for embracing any form of masculinity, and virtue signaling than it is "equality".

 

[Rebels57]

I saw it last night and came away feeling meh about it. It wasn't a great film but I wouldn't say it was attack of the clones level bad either. imo it doesn't touch any of the original 3 movies where the first one I could understand someone making an argument for top 3 even though not me personally. This one just felt very just average and even mediocre at times. The script was very Michael bay-ish. I didn't see any huge plot holes but I thought the plot itself was just very basic and childish even. Action scenes were still very enjoyable except for the whole leia in space thing which was honestly hysterical. I was laughing in the theatre at how ridiculous it was. The dialogue was cringe at times especially the "comic relief." I also agree it was made more to the suits ideas to make the most money but the movie having a feminist agenda is an interesting take away from the movie. I didn't get that feeling while watching it but I did get the feeling it was made with the sole purpose of making it as broad of an appeal to people as possible to make the most amount of money possible. i would give it a 5/10. Not good but not bad, if I went in expecting a mindless flick I probably would have enjoyed it more.

also not related at all to the movie but had to lol at whoever said feminism = equality. maybe originally but 3rd wave feminism currently is cancer and more about embracing the victim mentality, shaming males for embracing any form of masculinity, and virtue signaling than it is "equality".

5/10 is a really bad score based on the iMDB scale. Movies rated 5/10 on there are some of the worst ever. But you have your own rating system I am assuming lol.

I personally gave it an 8 on iMDB (but I think its more worthy of a 7.5/10 but you can't do half stars on iMDB).

That rating may change after a 2nd viewing though.

I thought it was better than Episodes I, II, and III and about equal to Episodes VI and VII, but behind Episodes IV, V, and Rogue One.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You've got me so annoyed at your sexism, I'll actually respond:

-I'll answer your question: NO, you jackwagon. The genders being reversed is EVERY ACTION MOVIE EVER MADE PRE-2000. Ever hear the term "Damsel in distress"? That's because it is a main function of Hollywood film-making -- women who can't do anything for themselves so a man has to step in to rescue them. I can't believe you're even trying to pretend there's some massive inequality in the film industry (towards men).

-You didn't give permission? Let's roll the tape!


So, as YOU said, you think it's permissible to have only 1 strong female lead, but anything more is over the top sexism (because CLEARLY that can't happen in real life).

-Well this is a loaded question: I don't watch the WNBA, women's hockey, or the NBA.

I also don't like men's college football, but love the NFL. What's your point?

You're not going to prove your sexist points with me -- I'm unbias in my inherent beliefs of men and women. Sure, the average guy can outbench the average woman (because that's science), but saying the average man is naturally a better leader or is more intelligent or more skilled at piloting is just BALLS.

So you ignored or dodged every question I asked. Says it all.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

So you ignored or dodged every question I asked. Says it all.

I answered your questions. You not being able to stand up to your sexist ideology is what says it all.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I answered your questions. You not being able to stand up to your sexist ideology is what says it all.

No you didn't. You dodged all of them.

I asked if the genders of the main characters were reversed, if you thought there'd be an outcry about how the genders were treated.

You responded by saying many prior films treated women poorly. Well, I completely agree. And I don't think it's right. But you fail to acknowledge they did the same thing here in reverse. You call that "equality." Yet if you reverse the genders, you can see it's not equality. Now if you want to argue it's ok because it's feminists getting revenge on men, all right. That's a better argument. But don't give me the equality BS.

You dodged the women's sports question by saying there are men's sports you don't watch, either. Fine, but in the sports you like, are you spending more money & time watching the men's league or women's league? If you answer the men's, I guess you're sexist based on how you're defining me.

Lastly, at least you admitted there's science that shows men & women have strengths & weaknesses over each other at different things. And if you don't want to acknowledge that having your nation's two top military commanders, best ground fighter, & best fighter pilot all be female, while all the men are bumbling impulsive idiots, is unrealistic & over the top, well, you'll never see it. You'll just echo the sexist! cry of anyone who disagrees. Because you've bought in to the 3rd wave feminism, as someone called it, that all straight males are bad, all women are great at everything, & women can't be sexist against men, just vice versa.

Enjoy your women's hockey tickets.

 

[mja]

Some thoughts after reading the thread (apologies in advance for the length):

I think the reason the film is so divisive is because we all want very different things out of a Star Wars movie. I'm a 40+ year old man who adored the original trilogy but never got into the EU and disliked the prequels. All I want my Star Wars movie to do is to make me feel the same sense of excitement and adventure I felt when I was 5 years old and pretended to be Han Solo looking for Luke on Hoth whenever it snowed. But if you're younger than I am, or really got into the EU, or whatever, you might want a darker Nolan-esque reimagining of the series or a nerdy plot-heavy chapter from the EU. But I am so not here for any of that.

For me, the complaints about the plots of these movies are silly. The plots of these movies have always been beside the point, going back to the original trilogy. It's always been about the spectacle, characters, and overarching themes. One thing I HATE about the prequels is they got mired in plot, as if anyone cared about midi-chlorians or the clone wars or political maneuvering in the senate. I just want to see dogfights in space and lightsaber battles along with the occasional quip and some space opera hokum, goddammit!

Complaints about BB-8 operating the walker or porgs seem to forget that selling toys has always been a major part of the series going back to 1977. I turned 7 in 1983, and I f***ing loved (and still love) the f***ing ewoks. My sons were just as delighted by the porgs, and I didn't mind them one bit,, and one of the best laughs in the film is the porgs giving Chewy a guilt trip for his dining choices.

The social justice run amok complaints are ridiculous, and if shit like this bothers you that much, then you might be the one with the agenda. First of all, if there was ever a series where a female character could be as physically powerful as the male characters without it feeling forced (no pun intended), it's the one in which characters have magical f***ing "force" powers. Secondly, the myopic reading of the female characters saving the male characters from themselves is facile and completely wrong. The female-led resistance is on the brink of complete annihilation until it's ultimately saved by two male characters - Luke & Poe, with a big assist from Rey. The character of Rose isn't merely there for representation. Sure, part of her casting is for that reason (and also to help sell tickets in Asia), but they're definitely setting up something of a love rectangle for the next film with Rose/Finn/Rey/Kylo Ren. Also, the actress' portrayal of a spunky backbencher fangirling over her heroes and then suddenly being thrust onto the field of action was a lot of fun, at least in my opinion. And ironically, it's the roguish Solo-esque Poe Daemeron that doesn't appear to have a love interest, subverting expectations.

And that brings me to my final point. I love the homage / remix quality of the last two episodes. Part of the most fun of The Force Awakens to me was the knowing way in which it called back to the original trilogy and shuffled up various elements from those films. I didn't find it unoriginal, I viewed it as an homage, and part of the fun of the movie experience for me was drawing parallels between them. One reason I liked The Last Jedi so much was that so many of my expectations where subverted in this film after they were set up, and I was constantly surprised. After the TLJ, I'm optimistic that Kylo Ren is on an anti-Vader arc that ends with him being unredeemed, which is interesting as hell. But mostly, both of these films made Star Wars fun again, after the prequels very nearly sucked all of the goddamn life out of the series, and for that I will forever be thankful.

 

[Tripod]

So....Ghosts Beer....looking forward to watching Ocean's 8?

 

[Pantokrator]

Thanks for this reply - I am in the same boat - I'm 48 yrs old and remember seeing Star Wars in first grade. I didn't have a problem with the movie, but, as I mentioned earlier, my daughter, who likes Star Wars, didn't like how the whole plot really was just about getting the rebel ship to safety. She missed the transition from one act to the next. In the other moves there seem to generally be several acts - movement form one subplot to another. This one seemed to lack that.

I like your assessment that it really depends on what you are looking for. Like you, I hated the prequels because of the lack of likable characters - the main ones are all emotionless - Padme, who is largely as stiff as Al Gore, Anakin, who is incredibly unlikable, and Obi Wan who is not allowed to have emotion as a Jedi. I think it would have been better if Anakin was so anti-dark side, that his anger toward it ultimately turned him rather than having him have some sense of entitlement.

I find Rey, Fin, and Kylo to have great personalities. I find Kylo Ren's instability to be great!

 

[BrindamoursNose]

No you didn't. You dodged all of them.

I asked if the genders of the main characters were reversed, if you thought there'd be an outcry about how the genders were treated.

You responded by saying many prior films treated women poorly. Well, I completely agree. And I don't think it's right. But you fail to acknowledge they did the same thing here in reverse. You call that "equality." Yet if you reverse the genders, you can see it's not equality. Now if you want to argue it's ok because it's feminists getting revenge on men, all right. That's a better argument. But don't give me the equality BS.

You dodged the women's sports question by saying there are men's sports you don't watch, either. Fine, but in the sports you like, are you spending more money & time watching the men's league or women's league? If you answer the men's, I guess you're sexist based on how you're defining me.

Lastly, at least you admitted there's science that shows men & women have strengths & weaknesses over each other at different things. And if you don't want to acknowledge that having your nation's two top military commanders, best ground fighter, & best fighter pilot all be female, while all the men are bumbling impulsive idiots, is unrealistic & over the top, well, you'll never see it. You'll just echo the sexist! cry of anyone who disagrees. Because you've bought in to the 3rd wave feminism, as someone called it, that all straight males are bad, all women are great at everything, & women can't be sexist against men, just vice versa.

Enjoy your women's hockey tickets.

You're just the absolute worst. You clearly didn't read anything I said, or you just don't want to.

Don't take it just from me -- multiple others have tried to make you realize your twisted ways, but you seem impervious to outside opinions. It's like talking to a wall.

 

[Rebels57]

No you didn't. You dodged all of them.

I asked if the genders of the main characters were reversed, if you thought there'd be an outcry about how the genders were treated.

You responded by saying many prior films treated women poorly. Well, I completely agree. And I don't think it's right. But you fail to acknowledge they did the same thing here in reverse. You call that "equality." Yet if you reverse the genders, you can see it's not equality. Now if you want to argue it's ok because it's feminists getting revenge on men, all right. That's a better argument. But don't give me the equality BS.

You dodged the women's sports question by saying there are men's sports you don't watch, either. Fine, but in the sports you like, are you spending more money & time watching the men's league or women's league? If you answer the men's, I guess you're sexist based on how you're defining me.

Lastly, at least you admitted there's science that shows men & women have strengths & weaknesses over each other at different things. And if you don't want to acknowledge that having your nation's two top military commanders, best ground fighter, & best fighter pilot all be female, while all the men are bumbling impulsive idiots, is unrealistic & over the top, well, you'll never see it. You'll just echo the sexist! cry of anyone who disagrees. Because you've bought in to the 3rd wave feminism, as someone called it, that all straight males are bad, all women are great at everything, & women can't be sexist against men, just vice versa.

Enjoy your women's hockey tickets.

You should just stop at this point before you make yourself look worse than you already have.

Time to move on from this one.

 

[mja]

I think it would have been better if Anakin was so anti-dark side, that his anger toward it ultimately turned him rather than having him have some sense of entitlement.

I find Rey, Fin, and Kylo to have great personalities. I find Kylo Ren's instability to be great!

Yes, that would have been a thousand times better and more meaningful than the lame shit we actually ended up getting.

I almost wish we could go back in time and prevent Lucas from making the damn prequels.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You're just the absolute worst. You clearly didn't read anything I said, or you just don't want to.

Don't take it just from me -- multiple others have tried to make you realize your twisted ways, but you seem impervious to outside opinions. It's like talking to a wall.

You continue to ignore my points.
I actually agree with you that women were treated horribly in former films.
And this film is propaganda in revenge, yet you want to treat it as "equality."
No. It's the same thing you'd bitch at if the genders were reversed.

 

[Rebels57]

 

[mja]

You continue to ignore my points.
I actually agree with you that women were treated horribly in former films.
And this film is propaganda in revenge, yet you want to treat it as "equality."
No. It's the same thing you'd ***** at if the genders were reversed.

I'm most likely going to regret this, because whenever a dude starts talking about feminist propaganda or virtue-signaling it's kind of pointless to attempt an actual conversation, but I'm going to try to sincerely respond to you anyway. (And once again all, sorry for the length.)

First of all, you don't get to define feminism, with that strawman caricature of it that you have in your head. I'm a married 40+ year old middle class white hetero male with three children. I live and work in Center City Philadelphia, and am surrounded by feminist friends and colleagues. This may come as a giant shock to you, but not once has one of these women tried to punish me for the crime of being born a white straight male, or cornered me to get me to admit my privilege. On the contrary, we have completely normal human relationships. We joke around, hang out, go get a drink at the bar, talk about our kids, talk about pop culture, hit each other up on social media, whatever. Occasionally we even have conversations about politics, or feminism, or whatever, and incredibly these are not rote lectures on the patriarchy but actual respectful discussions, and we shockingly don't always agree on everything and even more shockingly that's ok.

You said earlier that a 10 year old boy wouldn't want a female action figure. That's incorrect (and inherently sexist, but you won't see that, so whatever). This christmas, my 8 year old boy was just as pleased to get a Rey action figure as he was to get a Kylo Ren action figure, and he also didn't seem to mind that half of the Skylanders he got were female. This from a kid who's practically the very incarnation of 'snips and snails, and puppy dog's tales, that's what little boys are made of'.

I have no idea where you're going with the sports stuff. Believe it or not, feminism is not the idea that women are just as physically strong as men. I don't watch women's sports, aside from the occasional event at the Olympics, and not one of my feminist friends or colleagues gives a shit about that. As a matter of fact, most if not all of my feminist friends or colleagues prefer men's sports, too. Some of them go to every Eagles game and tailgate, or have season tix to the Phils, and some of them just don't care about sports at all.

As for your reading of the film, it's a facile reading rooted in your own political biases. You complain about there being too many female characters in military leadership positions, that it somehow makes a story that takes place a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away that features magical force powers and the routine suspension of the laws of physics unrealistic. Really? And what's the quota on female characters in leadership positions for you anyway?

Leia has been a strong feminist character since the beginning of the franchise. Rey isn't a leader in the resistance yet, she's just a badass force user in a universe where actual physical strength doesn't really matter. Rose is a nobody. So you're complaining about Admiral Holdo? So, more than 1 female character (plus the central heroine) in a leadership position and the movie is ruined for you? I think that says WAY more about you than it does about any supposed feminist propaganda in the film.

You think Rose saved the bumbling Finn. I think Rose stopped Finn from nobly if pointlessly sacrificing himself, mostly because she's head over heels in love with him. You think Poe was reduced to a mere prop for feminist propaganda. I think he went through some logical character development. I mean, Holdo is a one-off character there specifically for Poe's development. You do realize that it's now Poe that's going to lead the resistance, right?

And finally, despite your insistence that it's the case, the women DON'T save the day here. Leia is out of commission for a key stretch of the action, and when she finally is back in the game, she's got nothing. Holdo's best plan is a hail mary, and she needlessly keeps it under wraps, resulting in a breakdown of command that's at least partially her fault in that it was a failure to read the room. Both of these female characters are also explicitly on the record as admiring Poe, even after he leads a mutiny against them. It's Kylo Ren that saves Rey (and how f***ing interesting is it that the villain saves the hero). It's Luke that saves the resistance, by providing the needed diversion. It's Poe (who btw, is actually the best pilot right now) that realizes what Luke is doing, and that they need to escape, and then leads the rest of the resistance to safety. And yes, Rey uses force powers to complete the rescue. Total feminist propaganda, amirite?

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I'm most likely going to regret this, because whenever a dude starts talking about feminist propaganda or virtue-signaling it's kind of pointless to attempt an actual conversation, but I'm going to try to sincerely respond to you anyway. (And once again all, sorry for the length.)

First of all, you don't get to define feminism, with that strawman caricature of it that you have in your head. I'm a married 40+ year old middle class white hetero male with three children. I live and work in Center City Philadelphia, and am surrounded by feminist friends and colleagues. This may come as a giant shock to you, but not once has one of these women tried to punish me for the crime of being born a white straight male, or cornered me to get me to admit my privilege. On the contrary, we have completely normal human relationships. We joke around, hang out, go get a drink at the bar, talk about our kids, talk about pop culture, hit each other up on social media, whatever. Occasionally we even have conversations about politics, or feminism, or whatever, and incredibly these are not rote lectures on the patriarchy but actual respectful discussions, and we shockingly don't always agree on everything and even more shockingly that's ok.

You said earlier that a 10 year old boy wouldn't want a female action figure. That's incorrect (and inherently sexist, but you won't see that, so whatever). This christmas, my 8 year old boy was just as pleased to get a Rey action figure as he was to get a Kylo Ren action figure, and he also didn't seem to mind that half of the Skylanders he got were female. This from a kid who's practically the very incarnation of 'snips and snails, and puppy dog's tales, that's what little boys are made of'.

I have no idea where you're going with the sports stuff. Believe it or not, feminism is not the idea that women are just as physically strong as men. I don't watch women's sports, aside from the occasional event at the Olympics, and not one of my feminist friends or colleagues gives a **** about that. As a matter of fact, most if not all of my feminist friends or colleagues prefer men's sports, too. Some of them go to every Eagles game and tailgate, or have season tix to the Phils, and some of them just don't care about sports at all.

As for your reading of the film, it's a facile reading rooted in your own political biases. You complain about there being too many female characters in military leadership positions, that it somehow makes a story that takes place a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away that features magical force powers and the routine suspension of the laws of physics unrealistic. Really? And what's the quota on female characters in leadership positions for you anyway?

Leia has been a strong feminist character since the beginning of the franchise. Rey isn't a leader in the resistance yet, she's just a badass force user in a universe where actual physical strength doesn't really matter. Rose is a nobody. So you're complaining about Admiral Holdo? So, more than 1 female character (plus the central heroine) in a leadership position and the movie is ruined for you? I think that says WAY more about you than it does about any supposed feminist propaganda in the film.

You think Rose saved the bumbling Finn. I think Rose stopped Finn from nobly if pointlessly sacrificing himself, mostly because she's head over heels in love with him. You think Poe was reduced to a mere prop for feminist propaganda. I think he went through some logical character development. I mean, Holdo is a one-off character there specifically for Poe's development. You do realize that it's now Poe that's going to lead the resistance, right?

And finally, despite your insistence that it's the case, the women DON'T save the day here. Leia is out of commission for a key stretch of the action, and when she finally is back in the game, she's got nothing. Holdo's best plan is a hail mary, and she needlessly keeps it under wraps, resulting in a breakdown of command that's at least partially her fault in that it was a failure to read the room. Both of these female characters are also explicitly on the record as admiring Poe, even after he leads a mutiny against them. It's Kylo Ren that saves Rey (and how ****ing interesting is it that the villain saves the hero). It's Luke that saves the resistance, by providing the needed diversion. It's Poe (who btw, is actually the best pilot right now) that realizes what Luke is doing, and that they need to escape, and then leads the rest of the resistance to safety. And yes, Rey uses force powers to complete the rescue. Total feminist propaganda, amirite?

I don't know you, but I love you.

Thank you for attempting to talk to this person in a more patient way than I was previously able to.

 

[Rebels57]

I'm most likely going to regret this, because whenever a dude starts talking about feminist propaganda or virtue-signaling it's kind of pointless to attempt an actual conversation, but I'm going to try to sincerely respond to you anyway. (And once again all, sorry for the length.)

First of all, you don't get to define feminism, with that strawman caricature of it that you have in your head. I'm a married 40+ year old middle class white hetero male with three children. I live and work in Center City Philadelphia, and am surrounded by feminist friends and colleagues. This may come as a giant shock to you, but not once has one of these women tried to punish me for the crime of being born a white straight male, or cornered me to get me to admit my privilege. On the contrary, we have completely normal human relationships. We joke around, hang out, go get a drink at the bar, talk about our kids, talk about pop culture, hit each other up on social media, whatever. Occasionally we even have conversations about politics, or feminism, or whatever, and incredibly these are not rote lectures on the patriarchy but actual respectful discussions, and we shockingly don't always agree on everything and even more shockingly that's ok.

You said earlier that a 10 year old boy wouldn't want a female action figure. That's incorrect (and inherently sexist, but you won't see that, so whatever). This christmas, my 8 year old boy was just as pleased to get a Rey action figure as he was to get a Kylo Ren action figure, and he also didn't seem to mind that half of the Skylanders he got were female. This from a kid who's practically the very incarnation of 'snips and snails, and puppy dog's tales, that's what little boys are made of'.

I have no idea where you're going with the sports stuff. Believe it or not, feminism is not the idea that women are just as physically strong as men. I don't watch women's sports, aside from the occasional event at the Olympics, and not one of my feminist friends or colleagues gives a **** about that. As a matter of fact, most if not all of my feminist friends or colleagues prefer men's sports, too. Some of them go to every Eagles game and tailgate, or have season tix to the Phils, and some of them just don't care about sports at all.

As for your reading of the film, it's a facile reading rooted in your own political biases. You complain about there being too many female characters in military leadership positions, that it somehow makes a story that takes place a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away that features magical force powers and the routine suspension of the laws of physics unrealistic. Really? And what's the quota on female characters in leadership positions for you anyway?

Leia has been a strong feminist character since the beginning of the franchise. Rey isn't a leader in the resistance yet, she's just a badass force user in a universe where actual physical strength doesn't really matter. Rose is a nobody. So you're complaining about Admiral Holdo? So, more than 1 female character (plus the central heroine) in a leadership position and the movie is ruined for you? I think that says WAY more about you than it does about any supposed feminist propaganda in the film.

You think Rose saved the bumbling Finn. I think Rose stopped Finn from nobly if pointlessly sacrificing himself, mostly because she's head over heels in love with him. You think Poe was reduced to a mere prop for feminist propaganda. I think he went through some logical character development. I mean, Holdo is a one-off character there specifically for Poe's development. You do realize that it's now Poe that's going to lead the resistance, right?

And finally, despite your insistence that it's the case, the women DON'T save the day here. Leia is out of commission for a key stretch of the action, and when she finally is back in the game, she's got nothing. Holdo's best plan is a hail mary, and she needlessly keeps it under wraps, resulting in a breakdown of command that's at least partially her fault in that it was a failure to read the room. Both of these female characters are also explicitly on the record as admiring Poe, even after he leads a mutiny against them. It's Kylo Ren that saves Rey (and how ****ing interesting is it that the villain saves the hero). It's Luke that saves the resistance, by providing the needed diversion. It's Poe (who btw, is actually the best pilot right now) that realizes what Luke is doing, and that they need to escape, and then leads the rest of the resistance to safety. And yes, Rey uses force powers to complete the rescue. Total feminist propaganda, amirite?

Well f***ing said.

 

[Bigkarl]

I'm a 40+ year old man who adored the original trilogy but never got into the EU and disliked the prequels. All I want my Star Wars movie to do is to make me feel the same sense of excitement and adventure I felt when I was 5 years old and pretended to be Han Solo looking for Luke on Hoth whenever it snowed. But if you're younger than I am, or really got into the EU, or whatever, you might want a darker Nolan-esque reimagining of the series or a nerdy plot-heavy chapter from the EU. But I am so not here for any of that.

I agree 100% with this sentiment. I don't think ROTJ was bad. In fact, I think it was good to very good in the same way that I think most Marvel movies are good to very good (with the exception of Logan which was great)

To summarize my feelings, I t's just that I expect more from a Star Wars film. Maybe that's unfair, but I want to feel goosebumps in a Star Wars film. I want that moment where I'm speechless except for maybe "holy shit". And with the amount of source material and characters that I already know and love, I really believed this movie had chances to deliver that. Some scenes came close (Snoke throne room scene, Luke salt plains scene), but didn't quite get there. I guess my point is that any Stat Wars move that I describe as "good", missed the chance to be really "special" in my opinion

 

[mja]

To summarize my feelings, I t's just that I expect more from a Star Wars film. Maybe that's unfair, but I want to feel goosebumps in a Star Wars film. I want that moment where I'm speechless except for maybe "holy ****". And with the amount of source material and characters that I already know and love, I really believed this movie had chances to deliver that. Some scenes came close (Snoke throne room scene, Luke salt plains scene), but didn't quite get there. I guess my point is that any Stat Wars move that I describe as "good", missed the chance to be really "special" in my opinion

Whereas the scenes got there for me. The throne room scene, from beginning to end, is one of the best scenes in entire the series, period. Holdo jumping to light speed through Snoke's flagship was awesome. I also loved everything with Luke & Rey, and for me those scenes were the beating heart of the film.

 

[Bigkarl]

Whereas the scenes got there for me. The throne room scene, from beginning to end, is one of the best scenes in entire the series, period. Holdo jumping to light speed through Snoke's flagship was awesome. I also loved everything with Luke & Rey, and for me those scenes were the beating heart of the film.

I completely forgot about the light speed scene, which I agree was terrific, maybe my favorite of the movie, although I think it could have been more impactful if it was Leia. Of course that would have stripped us of the bittersweet Luke projection/ Leia scene near the end, but now they are in a conundrum with what to do with Leia. I don't know how they can solve that in Episode IX without a crappy off screen or opening crawl death, which I'm sure will outrage the masses

 

[Rebels57]

I completely forgot about the light speed scene, which I agree was terrific, maybe my favorite of the movie, although I think it could have been more impactful if it was Leia. Of course that would have stripped us of the bittersweet Luke projection/ Leia scene near the end, but now they are in a conundrum with what to do with Leia. I don't know how they can solve that in Episode IX without a crappy off screen or opening crawl death, which I'm sure will outrage the masses

Agree that the lightspeed scene with Leia would have been even better but im sure there are complicated reasons why it was Holdo instead. Tricky situation.

I wouldnt rule out CGI being used to give Leia and on-screen farewell (they brought back Tarkin in Rogue One convincingly) but that would obviously require permission by her family and would still be tricky.

 

[pit]

Agree that the lightspeed scene with Leia would have been even better but im sure there are complicated reasons why it was Holdo instead. Tricky situation.

I wouldnt rule out CGI being used to give Leia and on-screen farewell (they brought back Tarkin in Rogue One convincingly) but that would obviously require permission by her family and would still be tricky.

They released an official statement saying they wouldn't use CGI of her for future films.

We don't normally respond to fan or press speculation, but there is a rumor circulating that we would like to address. We want to assure our fans that Lucasfilm has no plans to digitally recreate Carrie Fisher's performance as Princess or General Leia Organa. Carrie Fisher was, is, and always will be a part of the Lucasfilm family. She was our princess, our general, and more importantly, our friend. We are still hurting from her loss. We cherish her memory and legacy as Princess Leia, and will always strive to honor everything she gave to Star Wars.