OT: Star Wars: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread (SPOILERS!!!!)

[The Rage Kage]

Yeah that was pure nonsense with Finn and Rose. The themes of the movie made little sense and were half baked.

Zero explanation on what Snoke was, is very stupid. I don't need it to be some extravagant thing, but come on.

BB8 driving the ATST, pure drivel. I groaned out loud. Same with him SHOOTING COINS out to defeat armed guards at the casino? So much cringe.

This movie is fine if you don't care about strong stories and well written plots. This is a STUFF HAPPENS! movie that's made just to have stuff happen in a star wars universe and make a **** load of money off of toys and memorabilia. That's why the fans should be upset. This new trilogy isn't a story that needed to be told. It's a story that was created after the fact to rob your wallets.

I cant believe i forgot about BB8 driving the ATST, I cant wait to see the toy atst where the top comes off to reveal bb8. The top came off so effortlessly I guess the first order has to make their stuff out of cardboard.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

My wife and I went last night and we both thought it was fantastic. I loved that this movie was more about character development and advancing the story line, which they did.

I think people tend to think too much about incredible minute details to argue about and slam the movie. Skip over that and just watch the movie from an enjoyment standpoint and everyone won't be disappointed.

It was just a good all around movie.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

My wife and I went last night and we both thought it was fantastic. I loved that this movie was more about character development and advancing the story line, which they did.

I think people tend to think too much about incredible minute details to argue about and slam the movie. Skip over that and just watch the movie from an enjoyment standpoint and everyone won't be disappointed.

It was just a good all around movie.

What character development and plot progression? Everything is in the exact same state as it was before the movie began.

 

[Brayden Fattison]

• almost disrespect for beloved characters (pretty much off screen death for akbar)

This probably bugs me more than anything. Han Solo, in TFA, got the same anti-climactic death as Snoke in TLJ, so it's not really specific to this movie. It's like they want to get rid of these pesky legacy characters and move on to the real business of selling Porg dolls.

I just re-watched "Rogue One", and I wholeheartedly recommend it as a palate cleanser for anyone who feels dirty inside after watching TLJ.

 

[bauer]

hated it for many reasons.

for starters, this new trilogy now completely negates the original trilogy. everything they did at the end of ROTJ means nothing now looking back. in fact, the galaxy is worse off. Empire/FO is stronger, Rebels are almost completely wiped out. WTF was the point? at the end of ROTJ there was a feeling of hope, they had turned the tide, and now that whole battle all meant nothing.

Snoke. who was he? where did he come from? how did he get to Ben without Luke knowing? guess we'll never know. who are the other KOR anyway and where are they? just another plot line forgotten.

Leia. yeah she should have died in space. that Mary Poppins scene was ridiculous. people don't survive deep space.

Luke. we waited 34 years to see Luke Skywalker back in action, and what do we get? him moping emo-style on a rock for 2.5 hours not giving a shit about anyone. no wonder Mark Hamill is pissed at the way they handled his character. he should be. this wasn't Luke at all. felt like a completely different person.

Rey. what is with her superpowers anyway? she literally has little to no training and seems so powerful. Luke had to train for 3 films with 2 of the best Jedi (Obi Wan and Yoda) before he was a Jedi capable of defeating Vader, but not Rey, she's mega powerful with basically no training at all and kicked Kylo Ren's ass who had been trained by Luke and presumably Snoke. i can't stand her character development. there's no hero arc there at all.

that Casino subplot was Phantom Menace level cringe. simply awful.

Phasma. what was the point of her? so useless. and what was with that scene where they were about to execute Finn and Rose and the ship gets hit, then all of a sudden all the troops around them (who had armor on) are dead but they survived without a single scratch? WTF.

humor felt very off. it didn't feel like a Star Wars movie but more like Michael Bay Transformers style comedy for little kids.

there are many other problems but those were the ones off the top of my head. movie was a complete mess. the days of wanting another Empire Strikes Back are over. we'll never get that again. Disney will never make a movie that dark and for adults. all we'll get is more Jar Jar style comedy aimed at the kiddies to sell toys. which is ironic considering toy sales are apparently down for this movie. maybe even the kiddies are getting turned off by the poor storytelling.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Yet another example of forcefed social justice warrior propaganda.

I'm not surprised toy sales are down. Think about it. No matter what people would like to believe, toy sales for a space sci-fi action movie will be driven by young males. The Star Wars audience will never be young girls.

However, the movie is all about strong women in leadership roles saving incompetent impulsive males. No 10 year old boy is going to want an action figure of Admiral Holdo, an old "General" (no longer any Princesses, of course) Leia, or Rey.

Poe is portrayed as an idiot who gets demoted & makes bad decisions. Luke at the end does something heroic, but for 99% of the movie he's an old, creepy, haggard, bitter hermit who no boy is going to identify with or aspire to. Finn is boring & has to get saved from more impulsive stupidity by the Asian woman. Kylo Ren is unlikable and a non-masculine villain.

Just a very poorly written movie that is more concerned about delivering a political message & I'm glad toy sales are down as a result.

 

[Fire Tortorella]

Yeah that was pure nonsense with Finn and Rose. The themes of the movie made little sense and were half baked.

Zero explanation on what Snoke was, is very stupid. I don't need it to be some extravagant thing, but come on.

BB8 driving the ATST, pure drivel. I groaned out loud. Same with him SHOOTING COINS out to defeat armed guards at the casino? So much cringe.

This movie is fine if you don't care about strong stories and well written plots. This is a STUFF HAPPENS! movie that's made just to have stuff happen in a star wars universe and make a **** load of money off of toys and memorabilia. That's why the fans should be upset. This new trilogy isn't a story that needed to be told. It's a story that was created after the fact to rob your wallets.

This is what I was afraid of ever since Disney took control of the franchise.

Honestly, I got a later movie "Pirates of the Caribbean" feel to this movie. There was some solid content in this movie, but way too many moments that just left you scratching your head.

 

[achdumeingute]

hated it for many reasons.

for starters, this new trilogy now completely negates the original trilogy. everything they did at the end of ROTJ means nothing now looking back. in fact, the galaxy is worse off. Empire/FO is stronger, Rebels are almost completely wiped out. WTF was the point? at the end of ROTJ there was a feeling of hope, they had turned the tide, and now that whole battle all meant nothing.

Snoke. who was he? where did he come from? how did he get to Ben without Luke knowing? guess we'll never know. who are the other KOR anyway and where are they? just another plot line forgotten.

Leia. yeah she should have died in space. that Mary Poppins scene was ridiculous. people don't survive deep space.

Luke. we waited 34 years to see Luke Skywalker back in action, and what do we get? him moping emo-style on a rock for 2.5 hours not giving a **** about anyone. no wonder Mark Hamill is pissed at the way they handled his character. he should be. this wasn't Luke at all. felt like a completely different person.

Rey. what is with her superpowers anyway? she literally has little to no training and seems so powerful. Luke had to train for 3 films with 2 of the best Jedi (Obi Wan and Yoda) before he was a Jedi capable of defeating Vader, but not Rey, she's mega powerful with basically no training at all and kicked Kylo Ren's ass who had been trained by Luke and presumably Snoke. i can't stand her character development. there's no hero arc there at all.

that Casino subplot was Phantom Menace level cringe. simply awful.

Phasma. what was the point of her? so useless. and what was with that scene where they were about to execute Finn and Rose and the ship gets hit, then all of a sudden all the troops around them (who had armor on) are dead but they survived without a single scratch? WTF.

humor felt very off. it didn't feel like a Star Wars movie but more like Michael Bay Transformers style comedy for little kids.

there are many other problems but those were the ones off the top of my head. movie was a complete mess. the days of wanting another Empire Strikes Back are over. we'll never get that again. Disney will never make a movie that dark and for adults. all we'll get is more Jar Jar style comedy aimed at the kiddies to sell toys. which is ironic considering toy sales are apparently down for this movie. maybe even the kiddies are getting turned off by the poor storytelling.

Agree exactly, except for your last paragraph. Rogue one was pretty good, pretty dark, and made by Disney. Its possible for it to happen, but sooo many misses with TLJ.

 

[TCTC]

I think Rogue One was pretty boring and depressing. Bland characters I didn't care about and too much fan service. Felt like a fan movie.

TLJ on the other hand wasn't boring, but messy.

 

[Rebels57]

Yet another example of forcefed social justice warrior propaganda.

I'm not surprised toy sales are down. Think about it. No matter what people would like to believe, toy sales for a space sci-fi action movie will be driven by young males. The Star Wars audience will never be young girls.

However, the movie is all about strong women in leadership roles saving incompetent impulsive males. No 10 year old boy is going to want an action figure of Admiral Holdo, an old "General" (no longer any Princesses, of course) Leia, or Rey.

Poe is portrayed as an idiot who gets demoted & makes bad decisions. Luke at the end does something heroic, but for 99% of the movie he's an old, creepy, haggard, bitter hermit who no boy is going to identify with or aspire to. Finn is boring & has to get saved from more impulsive stupidity by the Asian woman. Kylo Ren is unlikable and a non-masculine villain.

Just a very poorly written movie that is more concerned about delivering a political message & I'm glad toy sales are down as a result.

You decided on your narrative (that the movies goal is to prop up female characters and portray men as impulsive and incompetent) for this post and then skewed every character/event to suit your narrative. Interesting.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You decided on your narrative (that the movies goal is to prop up female characters and portray men as impulsive and incompetent) for this post and then skewed every character/event to suit your narrative. Interesting.

No, I watched the movie & that's exactly what I saw. If you want to ignore that it's inundated with political correctness & overly pushing the "strong woman" agenda, your eyes aren't open.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

No, I watched the movie & that's exactly what I saw. If you want to ignore that it's inundated with political correctness & overly pushing the "strong woman" agenda, your eyes aren't open.

This tweet was made for you

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Yet another example of forcefed social justice warrior propaganda.

I'm not surprised toy sales are down. Think about it. No matter what people would like to believe, toy sales for a space sci-fi action movie will be driven by young males. The Star Wars audience will never be young girls.

However, the movie is all about strong women in leadership roles saving incompetent impulsive males. No 10 year old boy is going to want an action figure of Admiral Holdo, an old "General" (no longer any Princesses, of course) Leia, or Rey.

Poe is portrayed as an idiot who gets demoted & makes bad decisions. Luke at the end does something heroic, but for 99% of the movie he's an old, creepy, haggard, bitter hermit who no boy is going to identify with or aspire to. Finn is boring & has to get saved from more impulsive stupidity by the Asian woman. Kylo Ren is unlikable and a non-masculine villain.

Just a very poorly written movie that is more concerned about delivering a political message & I'm glad toy sales are down as a result.

You greatly manipulated this to suit your madeup SJW agenda (as others have said).

There's no Princesses because there's usually not many Princesses lying around-- Leia isn't "Princess" anymore because she isn't heir to anything. Alderaan was blown up, remember? Plus, in war, "General" usually outranks "Princess".

-Poe isn't portrayed as an idiot at all -- he's portrayed as a brash gunslinger. Big difference.
-Luke isn't portrayed as creepy, but yes no child wants to identify with that version of Luke because he's a sour puss...but some adults would--the winding turns of life and its toll can take on us (failure, loss, etc.)
-Finn is fairly boring, sure. Not going to argue much here.
-I think Kylo is by far the most intriguing character in the whole series (meaning THIS trilogy)-- I think many like him, even though he isn't a "good guy." He's not meant to be a brute of a villain because frankly, that'd be boring for this story. Same old crap as last trilogy if that went down. Vader got particularly interesting when he was conflicted, rather than "kill kill kill kill"...same with Kylo.

Lots of holes in this argument, my dude.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

I don't agree with Ghost's post in every detail, but as much as I hate to align myself with anyone ranting about "SJW's", you have to be blind not to see how blatantly the new films are checking Disney studio exec's boxes of "diversity".

It's not completely a bad thing, but it sours me because I don't want this franchise being dictated elements by suits like Kathleen Kennedy. The story should be the story. Their intentions aren't pure. It's a money making scheme

 

[Rebels57]

You greatly manipulated this to suit your madeup SJW agenda (as others have said).

There's no Princesses because there's usually not many Princesses lying around-- Leia isn't "Princess" anymore because she isn't heir to anything. Alderaan was blown up, remember? Plus, in war, "General" usually outranks "Princess".

-Poe isn't portrayed as an idiot at all -- he's portrayed as a brash gunslinger. Big difference.
-Luke isn't portrayed as creepy, but yes no child wants to identify with that version of Luke because he's a sour puss...but some adults would--the winding turns of life and its toll can take on us (failure, loss, etc.)
-Finn is fairly boring, sure. Not going to argue much here.
-I think Kylo is by far the most intriguing character in the whole series -- I think many like him, even though he isn't a "good guy." He's not meant to be a brute of a villain because frankly, that'd be boring for this story. Same old crap as last trilogy if that went down. Vader got particularly interesting when he was conflicted, rather than "kill kill kill kill"...same with Kylo.

Lots of holes in this argument, my dude.

Well said.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I don't agree with Ghost's post in every detail, but as much as I hate to align myself with anyone ranting about "SJW's", you have to be blind not to see how blatantly the new films are checking Disney studio exec's boxes of "diversity".

It's not completely a bad thing, but it sours me because I don't want this franchise being dictated elements by suits like Kathleen Kennedy. The story should be the story. Their intentions aren't pure. It's a money making scheme

But is it obvious?

Is the act of putting a black guy and an asian girl as leads in the films crippling the foundations of the SW universe? Strong female characters helping the males is what's doing it?

What real effect is it having, if that's your point?

 

[BringBackHakstol]

But is it obvious?

Is the act of putting a black guy and an asian girl as leads in the films crippling the foundations of the SW universe? Strong female characters helping the males is what's doing it?

What real effect is it having, if that's your point?

This is just one of many gripes I have with the movie, all of which have an air of studio exec meddling. It's Disney doing Disney things.

If you are OK with that, it's fine. It takes me out of the element knowing that and it bugs the hell out of me.

I'm also someone that absolutely despises the Marvel movies, and they are insanely popular. So I could be in the minority, which is fine. After these 2 star wars movies I've adjusted my expectations so maybe I won't be so let down next time.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

This is just one of many gripes I have with the movie, all of which have an air of studio exec meddling. It's Disney doing Disney things.

If you are OK with that, it's fine. It takes me out of the element knowing that and it bugs the hell out of me.

I'm also someone that absolutely despises the Marvel movies, and they are insanely popular. So I could be in the minority, which is fine. After these 2 star wars movies I've adjusted my expectations so maybe I won't be so let down next time.

Okay with that? Putting people of color as leads?

I'm not totally sure what you're trying to point out as obvious undertones. Help me understand.

 

[Rebels57]

This is just one of many gripes I have with the movie, all of which have an air of studio exec meddling. It's Disney doing Disney things.

If you are OK with that, it's fine. It takes me out of the element knowing that and it bugs the hell out of me.

I'm also someone that absolutely despises the Marvel movies, and they are insanely popular. So I could be in the minority, which is fine. After these 2 star wars movies I've adjusted my expectations so maybe I won't be so let down next time.

The intentional diversification bugs the hell out of you?

Thats both weird and concerning..

 

[TCTC]

The Disney think tank behind these movies is pretty obvious though. It's all about ticking the right boxes to make as much money as possible. Story comes second.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

The Disney think tank behind these movies is pretty obvious though. It's all about ticking the right boxes to make as much money as possible. Story comes second.

You thought killing Luke was to make as much money as possible?

Come on.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Okay with that? Putting people of color as leads?

I'm not totally sure what you're trying to point out as obvious undertones. Help me understand.

No - Disney suits inserting themselves into the creative process is what I'm talking about.

The intentional diversification bugs the hell out of you?

Thats both weird and concerning..

Sort of, yes. Because Disney sees that as a path to rake in cash, not because of anything else. It's a paint by numbers franchise now. Any creatives that work on this franchise are automatically constrained now to what Disney wants. And I can guarantee you this is hitting the scripts way harder in other ways we can't so obviously see like this topic of diversification.

I realize what I'm saying can sound like I'm one of these neck beards ranting about SJW's. That's not the way I look at it, but this does not feel genuine at all to me.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

No - Disney suits inserting themselves into the creative process is what I'm talking about.

Sort of, yes. Because Disney sees that as a path to rake in cash, not because of anything else. It's a paint by numbers franchise now. Any creatives that work on this franchise are automatically constrained now to what Disney wants. And I can guarantee you this is hitting the scripts way harder in other ways we can't so obviously see like this topic of diversification.

I realize what I'm saying can sound like I'm one of these neck beards ranting about SJW's. That's not the way I look at it, but this does not feel genuine at all to me.

Can you clarify? You keep making very vague sentences.

What things specifically are you saying the suits are doing to ruin the creative process? (since you're saying they exist). So far all I've gotten is that the series is ruined because they're hiring actors of color to be leads.

 

[Flyrs21]

I don't know, i think the only thing that would of made the feminism in the film more obvious is if all the women were wearing t-shirts that said.... girl power

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I don't know, i think the only thing that would of made the feminism in the film more obvious is if all the women were wearing t-shirts that said.... girl power

Feminism means equality -- is that bad?