Online Series: Star Wars: The Acolyte on Disney+

[matt trick]

Surprise cameo has my attention, but man, this show was the worst of the bunch in my eyes.

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah, the wiping memory stuff was not explained properly, I think Qimir wanted to kill Mae for failing him, and that Osha made a deal to save her, but he's so not hostile at this point that it didn't feel necessary. Other than some rushed things, I also thought this series was mostly fun - certainly not the bottom of the barrel stuff everybody's ranting about (compared to the other SW series).

I thought it was on the level of Andor, Kenobi, and Ahsoka. The only show that’s really knocked it out of the park, for me, is The Mandalorian. And that’s just S1 and S2. The rest are good, but not great. Book of Boba Fett was decent, but not quite good.

A lot of people rank Andor higher, but there was too much dullness in it for me to put it into that top tier.

 

[Power Man]

Do yourself a favor and don't start it up again


I agree with the bolded


My only reply to the italicized part is

View attachment 895965

Star Wars : Crouching Tiger and Hidden Dragon

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

I thought it was on the level of Andor, Kenobi, and Ahsoka. The only show that’s really knocked it out of the park, for me, is The Mandalorian. And that’s just S1 and S2. The rest are good, but not great. Book of Boba Fett was decent, but not quite good.

A lot of people rank Andor higher, but there was too much dullness in it for me to put it into that top tier.

I'm one of those. I think Andor stands alone on top of these shows, by quite the margin, and I really couldn't stand Mando S1 and 2 (it was competently done, but couldn't stand the episodic structure). I know S3 got shit for going away from having hero-Mando and cute-baby as the central motor, and too got somewhat spiraled into the nerds' hate-campaign, but I thought it was more enjoyable (even if pretty dumb at times and a lot more uneven than the previous 2). The Acolyte might be my second favorite of these series - it's flawed, but was more fun to me than Ahsoka and Kenobi, which I still mostly enjoyed too. I don't have a SW craving, so these things can't really disappoint.

 

[Osprey]

This is a pretty good video essay (better than the thumbnail makes it seem) and the first 10 seconds might be the funniest meme that I've seen for the show.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

This is a pretty good video essay (better than the thumbnail makes it seem) and the first 10 seconds might be the funniest meme that I've seen for the show.

That's what I meant by spiraling... There's not a single lamentation in this video that hasn't been posted in this thread already and that didn't appeared previously in lamentations in my FB feed - but for some reason you all need to keep going at it. Anyway, it's a pretty poor "essay" as the strongest arguments are "shit writing", "high-school level writing incompetence", "garbage writing" and "dogshit writing" (I'm sure I skipped a few other compelling ideas). It's like there was a single right way of writing something, and that this guy knew about it, but wouldn't explain it either. He bases most of his whining on the character's reactions to Sol murdering the mother, which to him are illogical (except for the wookie, who seems to act accordingly to things that were already put in place before - the right SW way of doing things, repetition?). I have zero problem with any of these reactions - especially the lame Jedi going into silence and killing himself. On one hand, fans are like "he killed himself for no reason, had no reason to feel such guilt", etc., and on the other are like "this show is trash for making the Jedi liars and doubtful and bad guys" (in other words: Not my Jedi!).

The Jedi are supposed to be GOOD.

So maybe Torbin just agreed and couldn't stand the Jedi to be corrupt. Y'all sound like you'd die over it too! Now, that this guy, who was very lame to begin with, became a master in what seems to be a very short time, despite the guilt he maybe was already feeling, that seems a bit of a stretch, but it's not really part of this show. As for his other complaints, I do think the mother was going to let Sol have Osha, don't think she was lying, and I don't think "lol" proves she was. I also don't think you need to hear someone's reason for killing your mother. These are certainly not proofs of "dogshit writing".

Anyway, I'm sure someone who uses the word "pathetic" as he does and who considers people who might have liked the show not having "standards" (pathetic and narrative "standards" should not be used close to another from hardcore SW fans) will NOT be watching season 2 if it ever comes out.

 

[Osprey]

That's what I meant by spiraling... There's not a single lamentation in this video that hasn't been posted in this thread already and that didn't appeared previously in lamentations in my FB feed - but for some reason you all need to keep going at it. Anyway, it's a pretty poor "essay" as the strongest arguments are "shit writing", "high-school level writing incompetence", "garbage writing" and "dogshit writing" (I'm sure I skipped a few other compelling ideas). It's like there was a single right way of writing something, and that this guy knew about it, but wouldn't explain it either. He bases most of his whining on the character's reactions to Sol murdering the mother, which to him are illogical (except for the wookie, who seems to act accordingly to things that were already put in place before - the right SW way of doing things, repetition?). I have zero problem with any of these reactions - especially the lame Jedi going into silence and killing himself. On one hand, fans are like "he killed himself for no reason, had no reason to feel such guilt", etc., and on the other are like "this show is trash for making the Jedi liars and doubtful and bad guys" (in other words: Not my Jedi!).

So maybe Torbin just agreed and couldn't stand the Jedi to be corrupt. Y'all sound like you'd die over it too! Now, that this guy, who was very lame to begin with, became a master in what seems to be a very short time, despite the guilt he maybe was already feeling, that seems a bit of a stretch, but it's not really part of this show. As for his other complaints, I do think the mother was going to let Sol have Osha, don't think she was lying, and I don't think "lol" proves she was. I also don't think you need to hear someone's reason for killing your mother. These are certainly not proofs of "dogshit writing".

Anyway, I'm sure someone who uses the word "pathetic" as he does and who considers people who might have liked the show not having "standards" (pathetic and narrative "standards" should not be used close to another from hardcore SW fans) will NOT be watching season 2 if it ever comes out.

So, when a lot of people have the same criticisms, it's not a sign that those criticisms might be deserved, but a sign of a "spiraling" hate campaign? What would a legitimate criticism for this show be, then... one that no one has made before and no one repeats?

You seem to be suggesting that Torbin killing himself for no reason and the Jedi being bad guys are contradictory criticisms, but they're not, mostly because Torbin didn't do anything wrong. You suggest that he put himself into a 10-year trance and then killed himself simply because he was ashamed that other Jedi were corrupt, but that doesn't make sense, either. If that makes sense to you, OK, but that doesn't prove that the writing is good.

As for the mother, he wasn't suggesting that she was lying. He was asking why she waited that long to say that she was going to let Osha leave.

As for not needing to hear someone's reason for killing your mother, that's neglecting the context. An angry, vengeful person like Mae who's never known Sol except as a kidnapper and murderer doesn't need to hear the reason, sure, but we're talking about Osha. She's always been good and truthful and looked up to Sol as her savior, father figure and mentor. Someone like that would absolutely hear that person out before murdering him. Even the notion that she'd murder him at all is wildly inconsistent with her character, much less not even hearing him out first. What would've been more in character for her is what Mae did, which is hear him out and then insist that he turn himself in for what he did... but the writers didn't want her to stay in character. They wanted her character to change into Mae right then and there, and I've explained before why that's not believable, that there needs to be a descent to madness (as you put it) for such a stark character change to be believable, and we don't get that.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

So, when a lot of people have the same criticisms, it's not a sign that those criticisms might be deserved, but proof of a "spiraling" hate campaign? What would be a legitimate criticism for this show be, then... one that no one has made before and no one repeats?

Well, if you don't see anything wrong with the tenacity, I guess it's me. Just that you needed to post this video which only repeats stuff you've been saying for weeks feels weird to me. Or maybe you think it's confirmation. I don't understand the motivation, but I just would never feel the need to constantly go against a film/series/artist I thought was bad. Ok, it's not your cup of tea and you said it, no need to launch a cult.

You seem to be suggesting that Torbin killing himself for no reason and the Jedi being bad guys are contradictory criticisms, but they're not, mostly because Torbin didn't do anything wrong.

Contradictory in the sense that it is unacceptable for fans to have the Jedi being bad guys, but should be acceptable for him. I didn't say he did anything wrong (though he was the one who needed to go back to the convent, isn't he?), but he was aware of the cover up of wrongdoing and was complicit to it. If you're a true Jedi, I guess it's not something you're comfortable with.

Of course it doesn't prove that the writing is good. Please don't think that's my intention. It's a SW show, of course the writing isn't good, of course it's not high art. It's not completely formulaic, and that's part of the problem for many. Quite a few things I thought were rushed. I'm just saying it's not really worse than most of these shows.

As for the mother, he wasn't suggesting that she was lying. He was asking why she waited that long to say that she was going to let Osha leave.

He didn't say lying. He said gaslighting. There's no reason for her to tell him she was going to let Osha leave as they attacked the convent without discussing it.

As for not needing to hear someone's reason for killing your mother, that's neglecting the context.

I know nothing of your relationship to your mother, so I won't question this. The list of people I'd hear before going apeshit on them is void.

 

[Osprey]

Well, if you don't see anything wrong with the tenacity, I guess it's me. Just that you needed to post this video which only repeats stuff you've been saying for weeks feels weird to me. Or maybe you think it's confirmation. I don't understand the motivation, but I just would never feel the need to constantly go against a film/series/artist I thought was bad. Ok, it's not your cup of tea and you said it, no need to launch a cult.

Actually, I posted it mainly because I wanted to share the opening bit, which I found funny. The rest of the video was secondary, but it did a good or better job of explaining things that I've criticized, so it seemed worthwhile. It also seemed relevant, since you were discussing whether this is the worst SW show, though I didn't intent for you to watch it. It was for people who already agreed with me. Anyways, it seems hypocritical to suggest that you'd never feel the need to constantly go against something or repeat yourself when you're always putting down SW and its fans and repeating things like "SW isn't high art" and "not my Jedi!"

Of course it doesn't prove that the writing is good. Please don't think that's my intention. It's a SW show, of course the writing isn't good, of course it's not high art. It's not completely formulaic, and that's part of the problem for many. Quite a few things I thought were rushed. I'm just saying it's not really worse than most of these shows.

I don't understand how you can be opposed to people calling it bad writing when you don't think that it's good writing. That seems like objecting to something that you halfway agree with.

He didn't say lying. He said gaslighting. There's no reason for her to tell him she was going to let Osha leave as they attacked the convent without discussing it.

I know that he didn't say that she was lying. You did, which is why I said that he didn't say that. I agree that there was reason for her to withhold that information, but withholding it and then making him feel bad for not knowing it is, arguably, gaslighting.

I know nothing of your relationship to your mother, so I won't question this. The list of people I'd hear before going apesh*t on them is void.

This isn't about what I or you would do (though I doubt that you'd actually kill the person). It's about what Osha would do and what's in character for her.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

For a more even-handed review of the series (up to episode 5 anyways) with the early part of the video explaining why LucasFilm went in the direction they did for the first 2 movies in the sequel trilogy check out this Red Letter Media video.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I thought it was on the level of Andor, Kenobi, and Ahsoka. The only show that’s really knocked it out of the park, for me, is The Mandalorian. And that’s just S1 and S2. The rest are good, but not great. Book of Boba Fett was decent, but not quite good.

A lot of people rank Andor higher, but there was too much dullness in it for me to put it into that top tier.

Ya I think Andor is decent, but all the over the top love for a show that is like the Seinfield of Star Wars (lot of nothing going on), makes me roll my eyes.

I’ll never see Star Wars with the same wonder as I did as a kid, or be in awe of a villain like Darth Vader ever again.

But that’s ok with me.

My theory is they will hit on some shows and miss on some, but if they make a bad show IMHO like say, BOBF, it’s not going to somehow ruin my youthful experience with Star Wars.

I know there are hardcore fans like my bro, who lost his mind when Chewbacca got killed by a moon, and take this stuff seriously.

I get that, and we all have a right to like what we do, but that doesn’t stop me from laughing at my bro’s anger over something I’m not that invested in.

“Oh no not Chewy…anyway…”

 

[Osprey]

Also memory wipe?

wtf. Why not just memory wipe someone while in battle. They can forget about dueling… mid duel! Force Alzheimer’s! U don’t even have to kill them after because they’ve got a memory of a child! I mean seemed to wipe Mae’s memory as easy as waving a flag. Shit why not just memory wipe the entire Jedi order! Problem solved, Jedi don’t know they a Jedi no mo

I've been thinking about this and it makes you wonder why the four Jedi didn't just wipe their own memories of the incident. That would've erased their guilt and they wouldn't have had to lie about it and risk other Jedi sensing it. Torbin, especially, wouldn't have had to shut himself out from the world for 10 years and then kill himself over it. Some might theorize that only Qimir could mind wipe, but there's a line in the second episode in which he says to Sol (paraphrasing) "you're not going to wipe my mind or whatever it is you Jedi do, are you?", which establishes that the Jedi can do it.

 

[johnjm22]

I’ll never see Star Wars with the same wonder as I did as a kid, or be in awe of a villain like Darth Vader ever again.

That's part of the problem. We all saw SW when we were kids. Nothing they do with the franchise today can impress on us as strongly.

Star Wars also had break through special FX. That's not possible today. On top of that, the natural ending of the saga already happened in 1983.

I'm not sure what you can really do with this IP. It's been fully exploited already. Maybe it wasn't worth 4B. Even Andor is a spinoff of a spinoff.

 

[Osprey]

That's part of the problem. We all saw SW when we were kids. Nothing they do with the franchise today can impress on us as strongly.

It's the same with any franchise. Star Trek and Indiana Jones will never impress us like they once did, either. Alien and Halloween will never scare us like they once did. I think that every fan knows that. We don't expect the same experience that we had when we were younger, but it would be nice for new iterations to at least be good, honor the originals and remind us of what we liked about them in the first place. That's not that high of a bar, but studios repeatedly fail to reach it, anyways.

I'm not sure what you can really do with this IP. It's been fully exploited already. Maybe it wasn't worth 4B. Even Andor is a spinoff of a spinoff.

The more that I think about it, the more that I wonder if the way to save the IP might be to just re-cast Luke, Han and Leia and adapt Timothy Zahn's Thrawn trilogy into the sequel trilogy that we all wanted in the 90s. That and other post-RotJ exploits of our three original heroes is one major area that hasn't been exploited yet, since Lucas wasted the opportunity by waiting too long and then making the prequels. After that, more movies and shows (perhaps drawing from other EU content) could follow them as they age, get stronger in the Force and raise their kids, until the franchise is eventually handed over to the kids. The Disney sequel trilogy wouldn't even necessarily have to be de-canonized, at least not until the new actors are old, themselves. I doubt that Disney would go in such a direction, since they seem determined to move on from Lucas' Star Wars and re-shape it to their liking, and I have no confidence in their execution even if they did, but it's a possible way forward.

 

[Tawnos]

Ya I think Andor is decent, but all the over the top love for a show that is like the Seinfield of Star Wars (lot of nothing going on), makes me roll my eyes.

I’ll never see Star Wars with the same wonder as I did as a kid, or be in awe of a villain like Darth Vader ever again.

But that’s ok with me.

My theory is they will hit on some shows and miss on some, but if they make a bad show IMHO like say, BOBF, it’s not going to somehow ruin my youthful experience with Star Wars.

I know there are hardcore fans like my bro, who lost his mind when Chewbacca got killed by a moon, and take this stuff seriously.

I get that, and we all have a right to like what we do, but that doesn’t stop me from laughing at my bro’s anger over something I’m not that invested in.

“Oh no not Chewy…anyway…”

With all of the big franchises, we are definitely in the "hit and miss" stage that you see a lot more often in music as bands age. Like Megadeth put out five or six 8/10 or better albums to start their career. If you look at their last six albums, there's some decent material in there but some albums can get up to 7/10 and others are going to be more like a 4/10. Nothing will get back to that 8-10/10 again.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

It's the same with any franchise. Star Trek and Indiana Jones will never impress us like they once did, either. Alien and Halloween will never scare us like they once did. I think that every fan knows that. We don't expect the same experience that we had when we were younger, but it would be nice for new iterations to at least be good, honor the originals and remind us of what we liked about them in the first place. That's not that high of a bar, but studios repeatedly fail to reach it, anyways.

The more that I think about it, the more that I wonder if the way to save the IP might be to just re-cast Luke, Han and Leia and adapt Timothy Zahn's Thrawn trilogy into the sequel trilogy that we all wanted in the 90s. That and other post-RotJ exploits of our three original heroes is one major area that hasn't been exploited yet, since Lucas wasted the opportunity by waiting too long and then making the prequels. After that, more movies and shows (perhaps drawing from other EU content) could follow them as they age, get stronger in the Force and raise their kids, until the franchise is eventually handed over to the kids. The Disney sequel trilogy wouldn't even need to be de-canonized, at least not until the new actors are old, themselves. I doubt that Disney would go in such a direction, since they seem determined to move on from Lucas' Star Wars and re-shape it to their liking, and I have no confidence in their execution even if they did, but it's a possible way forward.

Recasting Luke, Han and Leia could indeed be a good idea... or they could just go the animation route. Their best content since 2005 have mostly been animated. Heck, I'd go as far as 1983

 

[Stylizer1]

If people keep watching to see how bad they are it won't really matter because ratings are ratings.

 

[Osprey]

If people keep watching to see how bad they are it won't really matter because ratings are ratings.

The ratings have been going down. People have been watching less and less.

 

[johnjm22]

'The Acolyte' Disappears From Nielsen Charts | Cosmic Book News

It's learned that with its fourth episode, The Acolyte is no longer appearing on the Nielsen ratings viewership charts. Now lower than Andor. More inside!

cosmicbook.news

The finale didn't even make the Nielsen charts.

 

[Lt Dan]

Recasting Luke, Han and Leia could indeed be a good idea... or they could just go the animation route. Their best content since 2005 have mostly been animated. Heck, I'd go as far as 1983

Sebastian Stan could easily be Luke. Billy Lourde as Leia and of course Alden Ehrenreich as Han

 

[Rob]

The ratings have been going down. People have been watching less and less.

Hopefully this means there won't be a second season.

 

[Sad People]

Finally got around to watching the finale.

I wont repeat the same flaws everyone else has mentioned. Dont feel the need to.

This show had some pretty cool fighting scenes. It was also kinda cool seeing a crystal bleed in live action even if there was some flaws in the process.

I dont know much about or anything about Plagueis but it doesnt kinda stink having a character like that show up in a mediocre at best show like this.

I really hope this show doesnt get a S2. Ratings show us why it shouldnt and hopefully Disney is smart enough.

Show kinda lost its interesting plot points after the "mystery" between Osha and Mae and what happened in Brendor was shown.

Heres to hoping in The Skeleton Crew.

Meh

 

[BrindamoursNose]

That's what I meant by spiraling... There's not a single lamentation in this video that hasn't been posted in this thread already and that didn't appeared previously in lamentations in my FB feed - but for some reason you all need to keep going at it. Anyway, it's a pretty poor "essay" as the strongest arguments are "shit writing", "high-school level writing incompetence", "garbage writing" and "dogshit writing" (I'm sure I skipped a few other compelling ideas). It's like there was a single right way of writing something, and that this guy knew about it, but wouldn't explain it either. He bases most of his whining on the character's reactions to Sol murdering the mother, which to him are illogical (except for the wookie, who seems to act accordingly to things that were already put in place before - the right SW way of doing things, repetition?). I have zero problem with any of these reactions - especially the lame Jedi going into silence and killing himself. On one hand, fans are like "he killed himself for no reason, had no reason to feel such guilt", etc., and on the other are like "this show is trash for making the Jedi liars and doubtful and bad guys" (in other words: Not my Jedi!).

So maybe Torbin just agreed and couldn't stand the Jedi to be corrupt. Y'all sound like you'd die over it too! Now, that this guy, who was very lame to begin with, became a master in what seems to be a very short time, despite the guilt he maybe was already feeling, that seems a bit of a stretch, but it's not really part of this show. As for his other complaints, I do think the mother was going to let Sol have Osha, don't think she was lying, and I don't think "lol" proves she was. I also don't think you need to hear someone's reason for killing your mother. These are certainly not proofs of "dogshit writing".

Anyway, I'm sure someone who uses the word "pathetic" as he does and who considers people who might have liked the show not having "standards" (pathetic and narrative "standards" should not be used close to another from hardcore SW fans) will NOT be watching season 2 if it ever comes out.

You're totally ignoring explanations.

Often the criticism from this guy is that characters abandon their motivations and main drives...like Mae trapping Qimir just so she can turn herself in to the Jedi, only to then fight the Jedi once they tried to arrest her. Not only did this scene not make sense (because why would Mae change EVERYTHING she's been working toward on a dime?) and because she didn't even do what she said she was going to do.

Like the progression of Mae in that time is...

1) On a mission to kill Indarra, Sol, Kalnacca, Torbin
2) Sees Osha. Decides to abandon that entirely by turning on Qimir.
3) Goes to turn herself in, but once she can, she fights the Jedi and turns evil again.
4) Tries to kill Sol
5) Back to being good again.

All in like, 3 episodes.

This is just nonsense character writing.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Finally got around to watching the finale.

I wont repeat the same flaws everyone else has mentioned. Dont feel the need to.

This show had some pretty cool fighting scenes. It was also kinda cool seeing a crystal bleed in live action even if there was some flaws in the process.

I dont know much about or anything about Plagueis but it doesnt kinda stink having a character like that show up in a mediocre at best show like this.

I really hope this show doesnt get a S2. Ratings show us why it shouldnt and hopefully Disney is smart enough.

Show kinda lost its interesting plot points after the "mystery" between Osha and Mae and what happened in Brendor was shown.

Heres to hoping in The Skeleton Crew.

Meh

Plaguis was a cool inclusion, but there was really no purpose other than a cameo - so like yeah it made fans happy, but it didn't do anything for the story. So I can't really get TOO hype about him.

Plaguis though is Palpatine's master and possibly the creator of Anakin Skywalker/the twins. So that's cool.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I think there are some slam dunks Disney could make to rebound and I hope they do.

Like, just make a Darth Vader story hunting down the Jedi.

Don't make it about another character who is the main one (probably a female girl boss, cuz that's what Disney does now) while they're evading Vader.

No. I mean make it about the POV of Darth f***ing Vader and him dealing with the politics of the new Empire, managing staff that despise him but fear him, and his solo adventures on planets where he needs to shake down people for information on Jedi.

Don't make it like Obi-Wan where we have to dedicate time to Reva instead of just focusing on Obi-Wan and Vader.