Online Series: Star Wars: Ahsoka (August 23rd)

[Tawnos]

Mary Elizabeth Winstead is doing a great job playing an older, more mature Hera. There were concerns there, but she allayed them at least for me.

With Kevin Kiner doing the music, this really felt like an extension of the animated series’. Enjoyed the first two episodes a lot… and I think it’s pretty notable that 90% of the trailers were from these two.

 

[Hivemind]

Spoiler

An ancient alien race visited the Star Wars galaxy thousands of years ago, changing the timeline.

No timeline change. The Zeffo are already canon, and the Rakatans were mentioned in passing in Andor. So ancient force-wielding aliens are already in that portion of the timeline, this just implies either that one of them is from beyond the galaxy or that there was a third alien race of similar nature.

 

[Jumptheshark]

What I like so far is it looks like Faverou and Filoni locked all the disney people out of the creative process

 

[Bowski]

good first episode but I imagine a few people wont like the idea of a strong, independent woman being the lead and the hero

Not so much, it's the fireworks surrounding it every single time.

ScarJo, Demi, Sigourney, Linda, etc. had no need to destroy all males.

Especially nerds that have never come in contact with females as their main target of "oppressive masculinity". Now they've overtaken them because they're "patriarchal".

So, no pie for you smelly nerd! Now you're falling back into some "everyone is good an equal" fantasy? Sounds chauvinistic, give it to us now, toy sales be damned!

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Well, it wasn't all bad, some nice SW scenery and stuff, but these first 2 episodes are a little boring. I like Dawson a lot, so I'm glad she got this gig and I'll watch. Kind of funny, I'm finally trying to watch Agents of Shield, I'm in the second season, and it's all the same crap, looking for a map, alien objects clinched in stone stands to reveal their secrets, old ritual spots with stone carvings, really shows how little imagination there is in fantasy nowadays.

 

[Bowski]

Decent 2 episodes, but until Thrawn (like they have set it up) I'm kind of on cruise control.
Really sucks to see a dead actor work so well

 

[GabeTravels]

Spoiler

Better set design and cinematography than other recent Star Wars shows, particularly Mando season 3. Some scenes still feel a little too obviously Volume-y for me, but they do a much better job about maximizing the strengths and working around the shortcomings of the Volume than Mando did in season 3.

It's a little bit of "Star Wars Paint by Numbers" at times. Capital ship flying across screen after the title crawl? Check. Lightsaber battle in a narrow corridor? Check. Jedi macguffin? Check. Land speeder chase and evasion? Check. Probe droid making probe droid noises? Check. Stuffy bipedal droid? Check. Jedi apprentice unsure if they're ready? Check. At least the giant spaceship isn't a Death Star this time.

It can also feel a little bit too much like a video game at times.

I still have a hard time viewing Rosario Dawson as Ahsoka. She's not doing anything wrong, per se, and she's doing a good enough job portraying the mournful, contemplative side of Ahsoka, but it's missing the defiant, sarcastic, spunky, cunning Ahsoka. Filling Ashley Eckstein's shoes was going to be a big challenge for anyone.

Lekkus still don't look very good in live action. They're fine for background characters, and they're fine on bigger roles in animation, but having multiple lead characters with them in live action is clunky.

Order 66? More like Order 66% effective. New survivors just keep cropping up.

Silly gripe that would apply to all sort of Star Wars media - but that puzzle map only has 1296 combinations. A droid should be able to brute force that solution in moments.

It drops you in expecting you to know and care about these characters. The fact they go as far as recreating the last shot from Rebels will go over the heads of new viewers.

Seeing The Phantom did bring back some feels for me, as a fan of Rebels. More so than the characters, funny enough.

"Because you're a hologram" is the best quip in Star Wars in a long, long time.

Chopper's sounds are definitely English turned into R2 beep noises.

I liked Sabine better with long hair.

The end credits really want you to know this is a Dave Filoni project. I'm shocked we didn't see him in his hat as a background character somewhere.

I get the worry about Dawson's portrayal, but it's been what, 10 years since we last saw Ahsoka in the animated timeline? She's seen some stuff and gotten older, makes sense she's less...spunky. Overall I don't disagree with your concern, but it's working pretty well for me.

I'm loving it so far and I love being back on Lothal in live action.

The casting seems pretty on point, Hera and Sabine are really good.

Love the Dathomir mention!

I do wonder how the show is going to hit for people who haven't seen the animated shows. I'd HIGHLY recommend at least a few arcs for those who haven't seen them. At a quick look through the episode list, these would be my suggestion to get to know Ahsoka.

The last 3 arcs in particular are spectacular and must see.

Clone Wars Season 2 Ep 11
Clone Wars Season 3 Eps 14-16
Clone Wars Season 5 Eps 6-8
Clone Wars Season 5 Eps 17-20
Clone Wars Season 7 Eps 9-12
Rebels Season 2 Ep 18, Eps 21-22, Season 4 Ep 13

 

[Tawnos]

I get the worry about Dawson's portrayal, but it's been what, 10 years since we last saw Ahsoka in the animated timeline? She's seen some stuff and gotten older, makes sense she's less...spunky. Overall I don't disagree with your concern, but it's working pretty well for me.

I'm loving it so far and I love being back on Lothal in live action.

The casting seems pretty on point, Hera and Sabine are really good.

Love the Dathomir mention!

I do wonder how the show is going to hit for people who haven't seen the animated shows. I'd HIGHLY recommend at least a few arcs for those who haven't seen them. At a quick look through the episode list, these would be my suggestion to get to know Ahsoka.

The last 3 arcs in particular are spectacular and must see.

Clone Wars Season 2 Ep 11
Clone Wars Season 3 Eps 14-16
Clone Wars Season 5 Eps 6-8
Clone Wars Season 5 Eps 17-20
Clone Wars Season 7 Eps 9-12
Rebels Season 2 Ep 18, Eps 21-22, Season 4 Ep 13

Low-key, serene, calm, even-keeled Jedi was normalized, IMO, in Return of the Jedi. Luke isn't the same spunky, defiant character he was in ANH or ESB either.

People have mentioned problems with how different live-action Ahsoka, Hera, etc sound. I would say half of the difference is simply different people with their different voices and the other half comes from the issues of acoustics and intentions. Even when you bring on the same actors into live action as you had in animation, there are going to be differences. The crossover episode in Strange New Worlds recently made this really clear. Boimler and Mariner sounded like Boimler and Mariner, to a degree, but they also didn't in a lot of ways.

 

[Hivemind]

Low-key, serene, calm, even-keeled Jedi was normalized, IMO, in Return of the Jedi. Luke isn't the same spunky, defiant character he was in ANH or ESB either.

Yes, but Ahsoka isn't a Jedi. In fact, one of her defining characteristics is that she not only didn't finish her training, but actively disillusioned with the Jedi order and portions of its teachings. While we've seen that she eventually reconciles some of that estrangement, she had been consistent in rejecting the title of "Jedi" in animated form. She still wields white lightsabers, and tells characters as important as Maul and even Vader/Anakin that she "is no Jedi." Her spunk and fire persisted beyond just her youth in TCW, and was very much present in Rebels as well.

 

[Tawnos]

Yes, but Ahsoka isn't a Jedi. In fact, one of her defining characteristics is that she not only didn't finish her training, but actively disillusioned with the Jedi order and portions of its teachings. While we've seen that she eventually reconciles some of that estrangement, she had been consistent in rejecting the title of "Jedi" in animated form. She still wields white lightsabers, and tells characters as important as Maul and even Vader/Anakin that she "is no Jedi." Her spunk and fire persisted beyond just her youth in TCW, and was very much present in Rebels as well.

This misses everything about Ahsoka's character post-murder trial. When she says "I'm no Jedi" what she really means is that she's not a part of the Jedi Order. She still embodies what it means to be one whether part of the order or not. That's essentially the main message of her character: you don't need any kind of official sanction to do right. And of course, Baylan Skoll seems to be a pretty direct counterpoint to that right now.

She's a Jedi in everything but official status within a Jedi Order that doesn't even exist (it's still 4 years from being restored). Hell, she still does the things a Jedi would do. From "I go where I'm needed" to taking on a Padawan.

The Ahsoka we saw in Rebels had more "spunk" than the one we see in this show, but she also had less of it than she did in Clone Wars too. As she connects more closely to the Force, she becomes more and more serene. She's at peace on a level that she wasn't in TCW or Rebels. That's what we should expect and it's clearly intentional.

 

[Hivemind]

This misses everything about Ahsoka's character post-murder trial. When she says "I'm no Jedi" what she really means is that she's not a part of the Jedi Order. She still embodies what it means to be one whether part of the order or not. That's essentially the main message of her character: you don't need any kind of official sanction to do right. And of course, Baylan Skoll seems to be a pretty direct counterpoint to that right now.

She's a Jedi in everything but official status within a Jedi Order that doesn't even exist. Hell, she still does the things a Jedi would do. From "I go where I'm needed" to taking on a Padawan.

The Ahsoka we saw in Rebels had more "spunk" than the one we see in this show, but she also had less of it than she did in Clone Wars too. As she connects more closely to the Force, she becomes more and more serene. She's at peace on a level that she wasn't in TCW or Rebels. That's what we should expect and it's clearly intentional.

Big disagree. It's not just about rejecting the organization and official sanction, she also is paving her own way and her own relationship with the force. She's not just following the teachings of the Jedi while rejecting their politics. She's embracing the elements of the order that she wants and chooses to, while writing her own rules elsewhere.

Even her light saber evolution embodies this. She goes from green blade(s), which she turns in when she quits the order to the blue blades that Anakin gifts her (and she buries) to white blades in Rebels and live action. Filoni has been explicit in saying the white blades show that she's distinct from both the Jedi and the Sith. And the fact her white sabers are made from "healed" Sith (Inquisitor) khyber crystals while retaining the Sith curved hilts is further example of this.

Up until now, the trajectory of Ashoka becoming a solemn and stoic Jedi master wasn't really there. Heck, the notion of her taking Sabine as a padawan is a brand new thing for this show as well. Sabine's training with the Darksaber was done by Kanaan and Ezra, and Rebels was explicit in saying she had no particular aptitude for the force (beyond what force is present in all living beings). We even saw Ahsoka refuse to train Grogu in the Mandalorian. This show has changed Ahsoka's arc and characterization. Only time will tell if it's for better or worse.

 

[Tawnos]

Big disagree. It's not just about rejecting the organization and official sanction, she also is paving her own way and her own relationship with the force. She's not just following the teachings of the Jedi while rejecting their politics. She's embracing the elements of the order that she wants and chooses to, while writing her own rules elsewhere.

Even her light saber evolution embodies this. She goes from green blade(s), which she turns in when she quits the order to the blue blades that Anakin gifts her (and she buries) to white blades in Rebels and live action. Filoni has been explicit in saying the white blades show that she's distinct from both the Jedi and the Sith. And the fact her white sabers are made from "healed" Sith (Inquisitor) khyber crystals while retaining the Sith curved hilts is further example of this.

Up until now, the trajectory of Ashoka becoming a solemn and stoic Jedi master wasn't really there. Heck, the notion of her taking Sabine as a padawan is a brand new thing for this show as well. Sabine's training with the Darksaber was done by Kanaan and Ezra, and Rebels was explicit in saying she had no particular aptitude for the force (beyond what force is present in all living beings). We even saw Ahsoka refuse to train Grogu in the Mandalorian. This show has changed Ahsoka's arc and characterization. Only time will tell if it's for better or worse.

This is all too common of a thing I see out there. Her arc and characterization haven’t been “changed.” Everything we’ve seen before informs what we’re seeing now and we’re following along with her arc as it continues to bend. That’s especially true in this case, since Filoni is the one writing this. He even directed her in the last episode. Do you really think that Rosario Dawson is playing the character this way because that’s her interpretation? No, it’s Filoni’s choice.

Btw, she refused to train Grogu after she’d already stopped training Sabine and before the start of this show. And now we understand a little more of her motivation for why she wouldn’t.

You can disagree with this all you want, but I haven’t once seen her do something that a Jedi wouldn’t do. She doesn’t use the Dark Side. Filoni says she’s not a Jedi and not a Sith. Fine, but Filoni is also the one whose shown us over and over that those aren’t the only two paths to using the Force. Hes showing us that again in this show, where we have seen five or six different characters use the Force in the first two episodes and none of them are technically Jedi or Sith. But he’s also shown us over and over since she left the Order that Ashoka chooses to use the Force in exactly the same way a Jedi would. Her relationship with the Force is, therefore, fundamentally the same as a Jedi’s would be. Thus the serenity.

 

[#37]

Just watched the first two episodes. A couple of thoughts occurred to me...


1.) There's no sex in their violence. Everything zen, everything zen? I don't think so...

2.) What's love got to do with it? What's love, but a second hand emotion... This is a show about femcels (female incels) out to save the galaxy.... with their robot or cat.

3.) A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.... Anakin, Padme, Han, Leia .. and even The Emperor were the only people who actually managed to get laid. ... but then they were all killed off. Supposition: Not being a virgin in Star Wars is akin to being a member of the red-shirted security personnel on Star Trek.

 

[Stylizer1]

The Star Wars stroy has gone on too long now.

 

[Hivemind]

This is all too common of a thing I see out there. Her arc and characterization haven’t been “changed.” Everything we’ve seen before informs what we’re seeing now and we’re following along with her arc as it continues to bend. That’s especially true in this case, since Filoni is the one writing this. He even directed her in the last episode. Do you really think that Rosario Dawson is playing the character this way because that’s her interpretation? No, it’s Filoni’s choice.

Btw, she refused to train Grogu after she’d already stopped training Sabine and before the start of this show. And now we understand a little more of her motivation for why she wouldn’t.

You can disagree with this all you want, but I haven’t once seen her do something that a Jedi wouldn’t do. She doesn’t use the Dark Side. Filoni says she’s not a Jedi and not a Sith. Fine, but Filoni is also the one whose shown us over and over that those aren’t the only two paths to using the Force. Hes showing us that again in this show, where we have seen five or six different characters use the Force in the first two episodes and none of them are technically Jedi or Sith. But he’s also shown us over and over since she left the Order that Ashoka chooses to use the Force in exactly the same way a Jedi would. Her relationship with the Force is, therefore, fundamentally the same as a Jedi’s would be. Thus the serenity.

"Then I will avenge him"
"Revenge is not the Jedi way"
"I am no Jedi"



Come on dude, right there in her own words. The "I am no Jedi" line is not just rejecting the label of being Jedi, but also rejecting the Jedi notions towards vengeance and attachment. She's very clearly willing to allow emotions and attachments to others into her relationship with the force. While she doesn't follow that attachment and passion down the same path as Anakin (and eventually learns how Anakin is turned by it), she was still Anakin's padawan before that. And, heck, it's her attachment to and faith in Anakin that causes her to reject Maul in Clone Wars.

If it was just the "I'm a citizen" bit from the Siege of Mandalore arc, I would get where you're coming from, but there's a lot more to it than that. It's not just about rejecting the label and the politics.

 

[RandV]

Some well meaning jabs:

- I guess it's a Star Wars thing now that the star map McGuffin well be conveniently found in some ancient ruins and be some sort of puzzle? Is there a 'DM' somewhere behind the scenes placing these things?
- Say what you want about the evils of the Empire, but they at least had some style compared to this New Republic. I mean security troops in a nice gentle blue uniform? And the fish guy has flippers for hands, how does he handle a blaster?
- And did they just slap a pack of pills on Hera's flight jacket and call it a generals patch?

Spoiler

- I love how when the apprentice ran Sabine through with a lightsaber she conveniently pulled it straight through leaving a clean hole that can be patched up, rather than swiping sideways and cutting her in half.

Seriously though, I never watched the animated series but I enjoyed it. The other shows on Disney+ don't really add anything new to the broader Star Wars stories, Fett/Obi Wan/Andor is just rehashing old stuff while Mandolrian is kind of a long running series of side quests. Can't tell how good it will be in the grand scheme of things yet but Ahsoka is moving the post-RotJ story forward in a way that the sequel trilogy should have.

 

[Hivemind]

- I love how when the apprentice ran Sabine through with a lightsaber she conveniently pulled it straight through leaving a clean hole that can be patched up, rather than swiping sideways and cutting her in half.

Nice of her to miss all the vital internal organs to, Maul wasn't as nice to Qui Gon.

 

[#37]

Nice of her to miss all the vital internal organs to, Maul wasn't as nice to Qui Gon.

That was Qui Gon's fault for not wearing better plot armor. But alas, If only he was a 'girl power', cat owning, femcel with nothing to love, nothing to lose, and no sense of humour.. he too might have survived.

I was expecting to see her floating in a bacta tank, tbh. But hey, a day or two of rest and she was good as new....

 

[Hivemind]

Well, I suppose it was only a matter of time until "those fans" showed up... ugh

 

[kingsfan28]

I enjoyed it, bbut the whole "Don't lose the macguffin, oh she lost the macguffin now we have to go on this big quest to find the macguffin" storytelling device is getting pretty tired.

Yeah, you saw it coming. Still wasn't sure how a space tow truck, towing a massive hyperdrive could out run a fighter craft all the way into the atmos.

 

[#37]

Well, I suppose it was only a matter of time until "those fans" showed up... ugh

Sorry to ruin your echo chamber.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

femcels

Tell us more.

 

[#37]

Tell us more.

Somewhere in a galaxy far, far away... people who have forsaken sex are fighting for galactic dominance.

EDIT: It could be happening on this board too, but I wouldn't know anything about that..

 

[Hivemind]

Sorry to ruin your echo chamber.

This thread definitely wasn't an echo chamber before you showed up, people were disagreeing with one another. However, they weren't dropping a bunch of cringe-worthy misogyny in the thread

 

[#37]

Well, I suppose it was only a matter of time until "those fans" showed up... ugh