Player Discussion: Stanley

Mortimer Snerd

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The problem with trading Demelo is that you are trading away a guy who has experience and proven performance against elite players - so even if you get the top 4 wish list d guy in the deal, you're robbing Peter to pay Paul. I think Heinola and Samberg make Stanley expendable.

Don't get me wrong, I've really loved Stanley and woud be happy to have him here long term and continue to watch his growth, but logically he could be the guy to deal to help us this year.

Stanley's play this year should make him more valuable in trade than Samberg and certainly more valuable than DeMelo. Heinola has probably had enough exposure that he carries a fair value himself. The reason to consider trading Stanley is exactly because he would have significant value.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Yup - that's what makes this complicated.
I don't know how the Jets are looking at this but I'm sure they are aware of what you have pointed out - I think it'll come down to what they think they need on the blueline - I can see Stanley as being a part of what they need (badly).

When I look back on the Stanley pick, I felt they pulled out all the stops to get him. They likely understood the risk that comes with picking a player that needed a lot of work but they saw the payoff if they were successful - that being a 6'7" defender - they simply don't grow on tree's (pun intended). I wonder how they see things now - did they get what they wanted? It's starting to look that way.

All the above doesn't change the dilemma one bit - your points are spot on.

I think a big part of the move to get Stanley was assessing the rest of the draft class as pretty weak. I don't think Jets would normally spend those assets on a gamble on a project player. They assessed that project as being their best bet among the players remaining.
 
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KingBogo

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I would prefer to see him used as one piece in a bigger deal to get a real solution at RD. He could be a very appealing piece.
Real solutions at RHD are virtually non existent on the trade market. You either take a flier on a prospect or you trade for a pending UFA. The vast majority of top pairing RHD are either drafted or signed as a UFA. Teams just don't trade them away unless I guess if you dangle a young #1 center.
 

LowLefty

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At the risk of repeating myself, :laugh: I think some people are getting carried away with Stanley. I want to see more of him playing more minutes, with a weaker partner, against better opposition, before I start projecting him to a higher level. You are free to do so if you like, of course. But I will think you are being premature.

I don't think I am being either optimistic or pessimistic. I'm not saying he will rise to 2nd pair level or that he won't. I'm only saying that I need more before projecting him beyond where he is now.


There is some optimism around Stanley - each to our own I guess - I think most of us project based on our feel for the player (any player).
I don't necessarily think anyone is getting carried away - they are simply optimistic.
But it is fair to say there is not enough of a sample to call it yet - but I like what I see so far and it pushes some of us to look at him a little differently than we might have a year ago - reason to be optimistic? IDK but I'm running with it :DD
 

LowLefty

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I think a big part of the move to get Stanley was assessing the rest of the draft class as pretty weak. I don't think Jets would normally spend those assets on a gamble on a project player. They assessed that project as being their best bet among the players remaining.

I agree -
They were looking at the "potential"
 
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KingBogo

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There is some optimism around Stanley - each to our own I guess - I think most of us project based on our feel for the player (any player).
I don't necessarily think anyone is getting carried away - they are simply optimistic.
But it is fair to say there is not enough of a sample to call it yet - but I like what I see so far and it pushes some of us to look at him a little differently than we might have a year ago - reason to be optimistic? IDK but I'm running with it :DD
I'm loving Stanley's development after years worth of shit thrown on the poor kid around. The amount of backpedaling is something extraordinary, even for here.
 

LowLefty

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I'm loving Stanley's development after years worth of shit thrown on the poor kid around. The amount of backpedaling is something extraordinary, even for here.

I remember the comments -
There were also many that did see it for what it was - a gamble and a project, possibly even a long shot.
The payoff was to build him into a good to very good dman where his size only made the package all the better.

It's happening now to an extent and although it's still early, how can you not be excited about this guy.
IMO, He's the guy that has a high probability of coming back and biting you in the ass (hard) if you let him go - I'd hate to see the gamble be all for nothing.
 

KingBogo

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I remember the comments -
There were also many that did see it for what it was - a gamble and a project, possibly even a long shot.
The payoff was to build him into a good to very good dman where his size only made the package all the better.

It's happening now to an extent and although it's still early, how can you not be excited about this guy.
IMO, He's the guy that has a high probability of coming back and biting you in the ass (hard) if you let him go - I'd hate to see the gamble be all for nothing.
I just don't see any chance the Jets don't protect him in the expansion draft. DeMelo is a nice add, but is a #4 in his late 20's. Stanley is 22 y/o with a higher ceiling, and with his size and strength he could absolutely be a main part of our backend for a decade.
 

MrBoJangelz71

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I'm loving Stanley's development after years worth of shit thrown on the poor kid around. The amount of backpedaling is something extraordinary, even for here.

I went back to the 2016 pre draft thread on this forum, where I made the first suggestion of drafting Stanley with our second pick. The next several replies were basically telling me I was an idiot, slow footed, bad passer, unable to skate.

I tried to sway the opinion because my research on the kid told me differently, but because the analytics painted a picture of size and no skill, it was taken as verbatim and it created a very false narrative of Stanley on this forum.

It was pretty easy to see that Stanley’s slow start to his junior career had a heavy and negative effect on his advanced stats. It wasn’t until his second season with the Spitfires at around the halfway point of that season where Logan took a very large and steep step in his development.

If you were only assessing Stanley off his numbers In 2016, you would have missed that steep step and heavily undervalued him. Thankfully our scouting staff saw that step and valued it appropriately.
 

Nac Mac Feegle

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Very happy for Stanley.

I remember back in the Windsor days, watching a few games to see our Logan (Brown), yet my eyes were always drawn to Stanley. Kid was always such a good skater for his size, and had good hockey sense in knowing where to be and what do do (even if his body didn't always cooperate).

I'm glad the Jets have been patient with him and allowed him to develop. And I wouldn't be surprised if the kid still has more to give at the NHL level.
 

ps241

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Classic line by Pascal re: Stanley (which is fortuitous given he scored his first goal tnt) when we spoke to him this morning.



You can watch the full chat with Pascal Vincent here. The question about Logan Stanley starts at 1:03:50.


I loved this interview Dave. Vincent comes across as a coach I would have loved to play for. Congrats to Pascal, his assistants, and staff for churning out some gems like Hark, Stan, and Apples.
 

rubikscube

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I'm loving Stanley's development after years worth of shit thrown on the poor kid around. The amount of backpedaling is something extraordinary, even for here.
"I wasn't wrong when I said Stanley sucks and likely never accomplishes anything but......"
 

puck stoppa

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I'm loving Stanley's development after years worth of shit thrown on the poor kid around. The amount of backpedaling is something extraordinary, even for here.
No kidding! I tried to defend the kid for years, I always felt the work he put in off the ice would give him a good chance. I said I see him as a Chiarot type at the time. He took a step back the one year with the Moose with the injuries so I’m glad he persevered through that too! He’s got potential for offense, when that and his mean streak rounds out he will be a force. He’s playing it safe now and looks darn good doing it.
I’m happy for him! If that trade doesn’t happen there would still be some that didnt like the pick in our original spot but the hate would’ve been far less. Nice first NHL goal! Congrats!
 

ICdave

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I loved this interview Dave. Vincent comes across as a coach I would have loved to play for. Congrats to Pascal, his assistants, and staff for churning out some gems like Hark, Stan, and Apples.

Thanks. He always provides very good insight on players. I'll have his full interview (talking about Perfetti, Samberg, Gustafsson, Vesalainen as well as Stanley) cut soon as a stand alone post (will post in Moose thread).
 

Mortimer Snerd

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The list of excuses for Morrissey fall flat once you use any logic and fact checking...

Ice time?
Pionk played more mins than Morrissey last season, and DeMelo played similar mins, with better results.
This season Pionk has played slightly less mins, with far superior results.
Forbort has played far more mins than a player of his capability optimally would on most teams, yet has severely less bad results.
That said, when Morrissey was at his best season he was on avg seeing 2nd pairing ice time and was the 4th option by the coach to step on the ice most time (behind Trouba, Byfuglien, and even Myers).

Usage?
Pionk played almost as tough matchups as Morrissey last season with better results.
Pionk and Forbort have faced tougher matchups with lesser QoT for forwards, with better results.
Morrissey last year played tougher mins than Morrissey this year, and was still better.

Rotating Linemate?
When DeMelo first stepped in to WPG he didn't have just new pair, who strated as Beaulieu, he had new forwards to play with, and his results were better... oh PS the Beaulieu-DeMelo was deployed as the Jets top pair at the time (and at the same time Morrissey was with Pionk as the second pair).

And not about fact checking but priors based models suggest Morrissey has never been very dominant anyways:
morrijo95.png

So, what has happened to Josh's game? What is he doing differently? What is he doing wrong? Or what is he failing to do right? Are you saying he was never any good?
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Real solutions at RHD are virtually non existent on the trade market. You either take a flier on a prospect or you trade for a pending UFA. The vast majority of top pairing RHD are either drafted or signed as a UFA. Teams just don't trade them away unless I guess if you dangle a young #1 center.

I agree that established top pair RD are not available. I think we need to go after a prospect - and pay a seriously big price.
 

scelaton

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Very happy for Stanley.

I remember back in the Windsor days, watching a few games to see our Logan (Brown), yet my eyes were always drawn to Stanley. Kid was always such a good skater for his size, and had good hockey sense in knowing where to be and what do do (even if his body didn't always cooperate).

I'm glad the Jets have been patient with him and allowed him to develop. And I wouldn't be surprised if the kid still has more to give at the NHL level.
Astute observations, as it turns out. My observations now are that he is still a good skater for his size and has very good hockey sense, as a rookie in the NHL

Lets take Tyler Myers, another former giant Jet, for purposes of comparison. Myers has great skating ability for a big D and won the Calder in his rookie season, but since then has not fulfilled his potential. The reasons: mostly because he lacks good hockey sense and also because he was rushed into an offensive role before he consolidated his defensive skills. Huge mistakes, IMO.

In comparison, Stanley's hockey sense is already clearly in evidence and he is being developed as a D-first defenseman, a role he understands and buys into. The offense will follow, as we saw last night.
No one here is predicting Chara-like upside for Stanley, but his development arc is a thing of absolute beauty. With appropriate sheltering, the right partner* and increasing minutes, his confidence* will continue to grow and be reflected in his play. That is why DeMelo is an essential part of the Stanley puzzle.

Bottom line, for a big Dman: [good skating + very good hockey sense + great development]>>>[great skating + poor hockey sense + poor development]

*PS- If anyone wonders how important a good partner is in generating confidence, just look at Morrissey without Trouba or Buff. That's why we need to look for a Savard-type D partner for him before the playoffs.
 
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BoneDocUK

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As a proud, longstanding and sometimes beleaguered Stanley defender, I am delighted to welcome all youse carpetbaggers to Club Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiig LS . Please deposit your crow bones in the bin by the door.

Be interesting to see how his development changes the upcoming XD calculations, if it does. Maybe a trade for picks? Would they really protect LS over DD, who plays a critical position on a sweet contract?
 

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