SSM Greyhounds 2022-23 Off-Season Thread (Part 2)

[DWI Dale]

i'm not sure what's worse... the fact that the hounds organization put themselves in this situation or the fact that so many of you supported Raftis' smoke and mirrors show about not needing to rebuild. admittedly its nice to see so many come around but this is obviously a huge "I TOLD YA SO" for those of us who tried to sound the alarm over and over since 2018.

also, Fischhaber is accusing others of being toxic after 4 years of telling everybody how wrong they are. years and years of his condescending BS and bad predictions. history has shown this poster doesn't know their own arse from a hole in the ground hockey-wise. when his prognostications inevitably fail he is the most toxic fan on the OHL forum. go kick rocks bud. you've lost all credibility. not even your own teams fans like you.

and Dean might not be solving our problems but let's be real, he's not the one that created this situation. that lies squarely on the shoulders of Raftis and Lukenda. it's accountability season and that should start at the top.

i'm going to just enjoy the tank and hope that brighter days are coming in 3 to 5 years. my only fear remains that we are successful in a mem cup bid and Raftis annihilates our draft cupboard long term to save his own skin.

 

[HockeyFan000]

Cant believe the pressure on these kids. We have a young team we arent the only organization that has been through this type of losing year people! Grow up I get we are all frustrated and passionate but let’s tone it down a notch. Things won’t change this year and so be it. Let’s just hope we get 1st overall

 

[shot caller]

Cant believe the pressure on these kids. We have a young team we arent the only organization that has been through this type of losing year people! Grow up I get we are all frustrated and passionate but let’s tone it down a notch. Things won’t change this year and so be it. Let’s just hope we get 1st overall

I don’t believe anyone is criticizing the players as much as they are demonizing upper and lower management for their misplayed performances over the past few years.

 

[DeletedAccountt]

Doing a ticket giveaway for the March 1st game against the Sarnia Sting on the Soo Greyhound Fan Page. Facebook only.

Goodluck!

Group is private so I can't post the link to the exact giveaway..here is the link to the group

Bei Facebook anmelden

Melde dich bei Facebook an, um dich mit deinen Freunden, deiner Familie und Personen, die du kennst, zu verbinden und Inhalte zu teilen.

www.facebook.com

 

[DWI Dale]

I don’t believe anyone is criticizing the players as much as they are demonizing upper and lower management for their misplayed performances over the past few years.

the kids did nothing wrong.
they'e had unreasonable expectations placed upon them by management who told fans we didn't need to rebuild because our drafting was so stellar and that the hounds wanted to avoid the "bottoming out" of a sell off. so we never recouped assets and bottomed out anyways. the kids are doing their best. if raftis hadn't inherited most of the core of the 2018 run he wouldn't have a job right now.

 

[shot caller]

the kids did nothing wrong.
they'e had unreasonable expectations placed upon them by management who told fans we didn't need to rebuild because our drafting was so stellar and that the hounds wanted to avoid the "bottoming out" of a sell off. so we never recouped assets and bottomed out anyways. the kids are doing their best. if raftis hadn't inherited most of the core of the 2018 run he wouldn't have a job right now.

amen…
It’s not confusing to understand. I get that it is difficult for some to accept but at some point… if it looks like a turd and smells like a turd, I will not be empathetic when certain people still require a taste in order to believe.

 

[DWI Dale]

the honeymoon in SSM is over for Kyle Raftis et al

Local fans call for Greyhound coach and management’s removal | SaultOnline.com

saultonline.com

 

[Riverfront]

the greyhounds have been good team under the watch of kyle Raftis.
One down season is no reason to ask for his firing.
Dean does need to be evaluated at the end of the season but Raftis record as greyhound
GM speaks for itself.(look it up)

 

[DWI Dale]

the greyhounds have been good team under the watch of kyle Raftis.
One down season is no reason to ask for his firing.
Dean does need to be evaluated at the end of the season but Raftis record as greyhound
GM speaks for itself.(look it up)

I disagree that it speaks for itself. I view Raftis' tenure in two phases. Phase 1 he inherited an immediate contender. 2015 and 2018 were Dubas drafted cores. Are you giving him too much credit for these years? I give KD the credit for drafting those players. All Raftis had to do is exist. lol

Phase 2 aka 2019 and later has been "The Raftis Years" and they've been mediocre. Early playoff exits in lieu of a rebuild, failure to convince marquee players to report, subpar import players, open import slots, bad goaltending, questionable draft choices (ie 2019 and 2020) and now a tank season we were told wouldn't happen.

 

[DWI Dale]

PHASE 1
2014-2015 - 54 win season, lost in 3rd round
2015-2016 - 33 win season, didn't sell, lost in the 2nd round
2016-2017 - 48 win season, didn't sell, lost in the 2nd round
2017-2018 - 55 win season, added big at the deadline, lost in finals

TOTAL WINS - 190

--------------------Dubas players aging out, Dubas staff moving on---------------------------

PHASE 2
2018-2019 - 44 win season, didn't sell, lost in 2nd round, rode the same 6 players
2019-2020 - 28 win season, didn't sell, COVID
2020-2021 - COVID
2021-2022 - 39 win season, acquired Jack Thompson (why?), lost in 2nd round, rode the same 6 players
2022-2023 the tank season we were told wouldn't happen under the "Don't Sell" philosophy (compare to 2016-2016)
2023-2024 A MEM CUP BID????


TOTAL WINS - 111 not including this season (with this seasons totals will likely <140

 

[Radar9]

the greyhounds have been good team under the watch of kyle Raftis.
One down season is no reason to ask for his firing.
Dean does need to be evaluated at the end of the season but Raftis record as greyhound
GM speaks for itself.(look it up)

So far under Kyle Raftis and John Dean, the Greyhounds are 16-24-9-5 in 54 games yup looks good

 

[DeletedAccountt]

Awesome piece on the Soo by Mike Farwell here... starts around 26 minute mark after the ad.

 

[shot caller]

Awesome piece on the Soo by Mike Farwell here... starts around 26 minute mark after the ad.

Terrific commentary.

 

[DWI Dale]

Farwell is one of the best imo. I feel bad for him because he was Muio's #1 fan and now it's closed.
But he makes it sound like we are in the Arctic Circle or something lol.

 

[DeletedAccountt]

Farwell is one of the best imo. I feel bad for him because he was Muio's #1 fan and now it's closed.
But he makes it sound like we are in the Arctic Circle or something lol.

We used to be LOL

 

[DeletedAccountt]

Allard and Toms will be back this weekend

Soo Greyhounds

soogreyhounds.com

 

[HockeyPops]

I think the model of never rebuilding CAN work. But you have to build more value than pretty much everyone else (mostly through the draft, some through getting commitments (imports/americans), some through trade). Dubas and his staff did that. It is looking like Raftis and his staff did not.

 

[DWI Dale]

I think the model of never rebuilding CAN work. But you have to build more value than pretty much everyone else (mostly through the draft, some through getting commitments (imports/americans), some through trade). Dubas and his staff did that. It is looking like Raftis and his staff did not.

London has been rebuilding on the fly for 20 years. It can be done but it may rely on "brand power" like London has. As you allude to, for a few years under Dubas it felt like we had that kind of brand power. American players were reporting, imports were reporting, and we were developing impact guys from all rounds of the draft.

But when you don't have any 2nd rounders for a few years, your using 4th round picks on longshots, your imports aren't reporting, and some of your 1st rounders aren't developing as you'd hope, you're in trouble lol

 

[HockeyPops]

If you are not finding at least 2 top line players each draft, I think it's very difficult to avoid the rebuild. Here are the results from the drafts 2015 and onwards:
2015 - Hawel, DeMeo, Frost, Martin
2016 - Hayton, Wale, LeGuerrier, Jacklin, Trott
2017 - Fowler, Calisti, Carroll, MacKay, Johnston, Kartye, Taylor, McLean
2018 - O'Rourke, Kerins, Watson
2019 - Holmes, Boudreau, D'Intino, Brzustowski, Savard
2020 - McConnell-Barker, Toms, Carlisle, Schenkel, Allard, Hookey, Van De Ven
2021 - Cloutier, Mignosa, Montroy, Gibson*, Scott, Clattenburg
2022 - Brown, Miller, McConnell-Barker, Kostov, Virgilio*, Vader, Evans

* hopefully on track to develop into first line talent

approx. 12 first line players in 8 years. It's not terrible but it's not enough to avoid a rebuild. The real issue we are having is the last 4 drafts - only 4 in 4 years.

@DWI Dale likes to go on about how some of us were drinking the kool aid for far too long, but I disagree. I think the first half of Raftis' tenure was good. 8 first line players in 4 years. It has really started to sour for the rest of us because his performance has really fallen off of late. IMO.

 

[DWI Dale]

@DWI Dale likes to go on about how some of us were drinking the kool aid for far too long, but I disagree. I think the first half of Raftis' tenure was good. 8 first line players in 4 years. It has really started to sour for the rest of us because his performance has really fallen off of late. IMO.

That's fair, but I still think you've been drinking the koolaid too long. Everything post 2018 has been sour for me. And it's all unfolded exactly like some of us foretold.

Up until 2018 was it not still Dubas' guys in charge of scouting/development? A poster from another team claims Raftis hired a close friend without much experience for the job and it seems to have been the turning point in our drafting successes. Like you suggested, poor drafts coupled with missing 2nd round draft picks and a failure to recruit players we've selected have been a perfect storm for a tank,

Now the revisionists like Fischhaber, who spent the last 5 years gaslighting us into believing we are avoiding the boom/bust cycle are shifting the goal posts and saying things like "well it's only 1 down year" or "we made the playoffs blah blah blah". How quickly the narrative has changed now that the bottoming out we were told wouldn't happen has indeed happened.

In summation, the koolaid has tasted like since 2019.

 

[DWI Dale]

Another way to look at it is that for the second time in three seasons the hounds will be out of a playoff position

but that's impossible! Fischy says so!

 

[HockeyPops]

That's fair, but I still think you've been drinking the koolaid too long. Everything post 2018 has been sour for me. And it's all unfolded exactly like some of us foretold.

Up until 2018 was it not still Dubas' guys in charge of scouting/development? A poster from another team claims Raftis hired a close friend without much experience for the job and it seems to have been the turning point in our drafting successes. Like you suggested, poor drafts coupled with missing 2nd round draft picks and a failure to recruit players we've selected have been a perfect storm for a tank,

I recall reading that, I think it was @OHL4Life that mentioned it. It would make sense as to what changed half way through Raftis' tenure to negatively impact the quality of draft results. But I think you needed a crystal ball in 2018 to say we were going downhill. In 2019 Holmes looked like a fine pick with all the tools to become a top line player (it's been his subsequent inability to put it all together that's held him back IMO), and it was much too early to know if there would be any other diamonds coming out of that draft. Even after 2019, that draft might have just been a one off, it was too early to assess that it was a trend. It's really only been a year or so that we have started to see the writing on the wall. I was reserving judgement last season on Cloutier, hoping in his sophomore season (this year) that he would take a big step. But this season has reinforced for me what we all feared - this franchise is trending in the wrong direction, and would need to go through a rebuild.

Raftis should have known before all of us that most of picks were not panning out as planned. For him to ignore all the telltale signs at the Jan 2022 deadline and make a hard pass on the sell off so the franchise could go through a quick rebuild is his to own.

 

[scotty171]

In 2019 Holmes looked like a fine pick with all the tools to become a top line player (it's been his subsequent inability to put it all together that's held him back IMO), and it was much too early to know if there would be any other diamonds coming out of that draft.

Had Matier right in our back yard. Well our back yard I guess not his he doesn't live here. I watched Matier a lot leading up to that draft and was disappointed the hounds didn't select him.

 

[Riverfront]

the pandemic did not help the hounds cause.
the draft lottery did not help the hounds cause.
The 2021-22 season - 39 win season, tanner dickinson suffered broken leg out for
season, if that does not happen and dickinson in the line-up the hounds had a
legitimate shot to make a long playoff run in my opinion.
people seem to forget that.

 

[HockeyPops]

How did the draft lottery hurt the Hounds?