Blue Jays Discussion: Spring Training Discussion: Countdown to the Season (Thursday at 3pm ET/noon PT)

[TheTotalPackage]

Josh Donaldson is retiring
Sad to see, he was awesome

He was amazing for us! Wish him well in his retirement life!

Donaldson was a huge part of those teams that team captivated not only a city, but an entire country. His style, personality, and of course play on the field, made him a fan favourite. That run from July into the playoffs was one of the best stretches in this team's history. The 2015 team provided some of the fondest memories for the new generation of fans. Can't believe it's almost been a decade now..

Wishing him the best in his post-baseball journey.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Donaldson was a huge part of those teams that team captivated not only a city, but an entire country. His style, personality, and of course play on the field, made him a fan favourite. That run from July into the playoffs was one of the best stretches in this team's history. The 2015 team provided some of the fondest memories for the new generation of fans. Can't believe it's almost been a decade now..

Wishing him the best in his post-baseball journey.

Kinda sad that nothing lasts forever. That was almost 10 years ago already. EE, Joey Bats, Russ Martin, Tulo, and now Donaldson are all retired.

 

[Dr.Funk]

Yes and No. Is it an excuse or an explanation? A lot of hitters on the team had a down year last year, the first year of major renovations to the outfield where the batters eye is located. For years Rogers Center used to have one of the best batters eyes in the MLB according to former and present players and opposition. It was basically a big black backdrop with no seating within which the white baseball stood out clearly. Last year that backdrop was gone. You can't under estimate what a factor that was considering how many players struggled last year. If it was just Chapman you could probably write it off as just an excuse, but I think it's also a legitimate reason and explanation.

So what you are saying is we need the man in white back out there

 

[dredeye]

I don’t understand what was wrong with the Rogers Centre last year and why it was suppressing offence so much. I wonder how other Jays may feel quietly about it but they are under contract and can’t go elsewhere.

It really made no sense. They shortened it a ridiculous amount and somehow it became an offensive void. I'm wondering if it's losing the huge flat blue backdrop now that those renos are done. I'm thinking they inadvertently made it harder for players to pick up the ball out of the pitchers hands.

 

[mikeyz]

Donaldson was a huge part of those teams that team captivated not only a city, but an entire country. His style, personality, and of course play on the field, made him a fan favourite. That run from July into the playoffs was one of the best stretches in this team's history. The 2015 team provided some of the fondest memories for the new generation of fans. Can't believe it's almost been a decade now..

Wishing him the best in his post-baseball journey.

I really thought that they were going to win the World Series that year. Even still to this day I think they had the best team that year.

 

[Suntouchable13]

There should be a Josh Donaldson day at some point this season

 

[canucksfan]

True, it wasn't putrid.
BUT
Remove Belt, Chapman and Merrifield and they will be weaker this season on offense.

On the pitching side the Jays were very fortunate to be so healthy.
I don't expect that to happen again this year. Bassit, Kukuchi and Mayza all had career seasons and they are north of 30 years old,
Lost Hicks.

For a team in their championship window they sure dropped the ball on improving the team.

Turner can replace Belt. Merrifield wasn't that good and one of the young guys can easily replace his production. Chapman's April production will be missed.

The offence that left isn't a big deal. However, there are guys that need to return to the level they are capable of, Kirk, Springer, Vladdy, and Varsho.

I've said this numerous times but another bat is still needed.

Not at all worried about the pitching. If a pitcher does go down, there is depth to help out. Credit to the organization as well. I think their training program helps limit injuries.

 

[Puckstuff]

This year will probably make or break the Springer deal.

Year 1+2: Worth the money despite the injuries
Year 3: Flop
Year 4: Pending
Year 5+6: Expected decline

I need at least 3 good seasons from him for this deal to be worth it.

 

[Nineteen67]

Turner can replace Belt. Merrifield wasn't that good and one of the young guys can easily replace his production. Chapman's April production will be missed.

The offence that left isn't a big deal. However, there are guys that need to return to the level they are capable of, Kirk, Springer, Vladdy, and Varsho.

I've said this numerous times but another bat is still needed.

Not at all worried about the pitching. If a pitcher does go down, there is depth to help out. Credit to the organization as well. I think their training program helps limit injuries.

Kirk is old school and uses spring training to get into shape.

 

[Bjindaho]

Yes and No. Is it an excuse or an explanation? A lot of hitters on the team had a down year last year, the first year of major renovations to the outfield where the batters eye is located. For years Rogers Center used to have one of the best batters eyes in the MLB according to former and present players and opposition. It was basically a big black backdrop with no seating within which the white baseball stood out clearly. Last year that backdrop was gone. You can't under estimate what a factor that was considering how many players struggled last year. If it was just Chapman you could probably write it off as just an excuse, but I think it's also a legitimate reason and explanation.

Was looking Springer's splits because of a later post and noticed something weird.

The only Jays who hit better against lefties at home were Kirk and Vladdy (as an extreme example, Chapman had a 53wRC+ at home versus 232 on the road in just over 50 PA each)

There were a couple of guys who specifically didn't hit righties at home (cough, Vladdy, cough).

Kirk is the weird exception where he only really hit at home.

This definitely lends some credence to the batter's eye being a problem.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Bjindaho]

If Toronto wants a traditional OF for the bench, either Pache or Adell could likely be had for a spare part.

 

[Discoverer]

If Toronto wants a traditional OF for the bench, either Pache or Adell could likely be had for a spare part.

Pache makes a bit of sense as a pure platoon guy to complement Varsho and Kiermaier - career 99 wRC+ against LHP, 7 against RHP (and that's not a typo - that's just a seven). Last year it was 148 vs RHP, 27 vs. LHP. He's not ideal since they need a big bat more than anything, but if he can hit lefties well with his defense, it's not the worst idea.

Adell seems like more of a wild card who you just hope can figure out major league pitching because he hasn't done anything to warrant a spot beyond AAA yet.

 

[Bjindaho]

Pache makes a bit of sense as a pure platoon guy to complement Varsho and Kiermaier - career 99 wRC+ against LHP, 7 against RHP (and that's not a typo - that's just a seven). Last year it was 148 vs RHP, 27 vs. LHP. He's not ideal since they need a big bat more than anything, but if he can hit lefties well with his defense, it's not the worst idea.

Adell seems like more of a wild card who you just hope can figure out major league pitching because he hasn't done anything to warrant a spot beyond AAA yet.

The biggest thing both guys have going for them is age. They are both younger than Lukes was when the Jays signed him.

Edit: There's two ways to go about this. If someone like Schneider doesn't make the team out of camp, then the Jays could just wait and claim an outfielder that gets cut (Adell is a real possibility).

If the Jays roster crunch is as tight as we think it could be, they could offer one of Espinal/Clement and maybe ask that a lottery ticket style arm gets added on the other side. (Both teams have questionable ability to have someone field SS in the event of an injury).

 

[Discoverer]

The biggest thing both guys have going for them is age. They are both younger than Lukes was when the Jays signed him.

Edit: There's two ways to go about this. If someone like Schneider doesn't make the team out of camp, then the Jays could just wait and claim an outfielder that gets cut (Adell is a real possibility).

If the Jays roster crunch is as tight as we think it could be, they could offer one of Espinal/Clement and maybe ask that a lottery ticket style arm gets added on the other side. (Both teams have questionable ability to have someone field SS in the event of an injury).

I'm going to be very disappointed when they give Espinal a roster spot and give Clement away for next to nothing.

 

[Bjindaho]

I'm going to be very disappointed when they give Espinal a roster spot and give Clement away for next to nothing.

If you assume that the 6 obvious starters, backup C, IKF, Turner, Biggio, Espinal are all locks, then we have 2 spots for Clement and either one of Schneider/Horwitz/Lukes (all have options) or a waiver claim if someone interesting doesn't make it.

In the scenario where Schneider doesn't force our hand, it's not a given that that happens.

Also, unless something changes this spring, I would trade Espinal before Clement personally.

 

[Kurtz]

Not at all worried about the pitching. If a pitcher does go down, there is depth to help out. Credit to the organization as well. I think their training program helps limit injuries.

Is there though? I don't really see much beyond Bowden Francis and Mitch White, and I think Francis is in our opening day rotation as is since Manoah is rapidly running out of time to make an impression in Spring Training.

 

[Discoverer]

Is there though? I don't really see much beyond Bowden Francis and Mitch White, and I think Francis is in our opening day rotation as is since Manoah is rapidly running out of time to make an impression in Spring Training.

Tiedemann

If you assume that the 6 obvious starters, backup C, IKF, Turner, Biggio, Espinal are all locks, then we have 2 spots for Clement and either one of Schneider/Horwitz/Lukes (all have options) or a waiver claim if someone interesting doesn't make it.

In the scenario where Schneider doesn't force our hand, it's not a given that that happens.

Also, unless something changes this spring, I would trade Espinal before Clement personally.

Me too, I just have a bad feeling management feels the opposite.

 

[FerrisRox]

Tiedemann

You figure four career innings of AAA play is enough and he's ready to jump into a Major League rotation?

 

[Kurtz]

Tiedemann

Innings limit.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

You figure four career innings of AAA play is enough and he's ready to jump into a Major League rotation?

Yes.

 

[Bjindaho]

You figure four career innings of AAA play is enough and he's ready to jump into a Major League rotation?

There's also Yariel Rodriguez and Chad Dallas

 

[FerrisRox]

There's also Yariel Rodriguez and Chad Dallas

Yeah, I think both are a lot more likely than Ricky Tiedemann. Moving your top prospect from AA to the Majors is a recipe for disaster.

It will take some time to stretch Rodriguez out a little before he can step into the rotation too. He's certainly not an opening day option.

 

[Eyedea]

The fact that we can name four legit backend options before even hitting our top prospect bodes well from a starters depth standpoint.

And then you have guys like Macko, Palmer, and CJVE at AA.

 

[canucksfan]

Is there though? I don't really see much beyond Bowden Francis and Mitch White, and I think Francis is in our opening day rotation as is since Manoah is rapidly running out of time to make an impression in Spring Training.

Gausman
Bassitt
Berios
Kikuchi
Francis/Manoah

Manoah/Francis
White
Rodriguez
Dallas
Tiedemann

is good starting depth and much better than last year.

The reliever depth is quite good too.