Speculation: Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXIV

[duhmetreE]

KAM has astronomical peaks.... Like ABSURD defensive highs/capabilities. aka Smothering Crosby and/or anyone behind the net, on the boards etc.

He is raw and will have lows. As seen predominantly without Trouba, who gave him a solid foundation to fall on.

My biggest gripe with KAM is how awkward he is (occasionally) pivoting from skating backwards/transition and un-needed mental lapses that should shape up with more coaching and experience..

YOU DO NOT TRADE A PLAYER LIKE KAM.

 

[JohnC]

Well...... maybe. Edge implied there were other offers and my recollection is that he also implied that the Blais deal isn't the one he thought was best.

It was not. Not even close imo.

 

[pld459666]

True, I think the discourse on here has been mostly fair after the initial surprise as to the poor return.

I'm more thinking about all of the writers out there and hockey twitter that have treated us trading Buch as if we traded Panarin or Lafreniere. Or as if we don't have a recent 1st OA and 2nd OA winger both ready for top 6 winger roles and prime ice time that Buch was getting. It's been referred to as the main example as to why the rebuild is now officially a failure which I think is crazy.

I don't think the return was all that poor.

I think the EXPECTED return was highly inflated.

The Rangers got a 3rd liner thats cheap and will be cost controlled beyond this current contract and a 2nd in a very deep draft.

They also added quite a bit of cap space as well.

If i could read the tea leaves that he was the odd man out, the whole NHL knew.

He was not garnering a teams top prospect.

Wasn't happening

 

[duhmetreE]

Dvorak isn't better than Zibanejad or Strome and I prefer Chytil over Dvorak especially considering the cap hit.

Dvorak isn't a solution for us IMO.

Dvorak would have replaced Strome.

If we're going to be that short sighted we're destined for failure. The move would not have been only for the upcoming season.

There is little to no certainty at Center for the Rangers future. Instead of kicking the can down the road, similar to Gorton's 'team toughness', I believe it should be addressed when applicable

 

[RGY]

Not everyone can play on this defense. There are only 6 spots. Maybe does not need to happen right now, but at some point a trade will happen before a prospects value diminishes or it is not as high as it could have been.

 

[Fitzy]

Not everyone can play on this defense. There are only 6 spots. Maybe does not need to happen right now, but at some point a trade will happen before a prospects value diminishes or it is not as high as it could have been.

I think they'll know by mid-season who they favor and who they don't. AHL experience for a lot of these guys is going to tell us a lot about their transition to pro/north american hockey, as well as how they might fit in terms of roles on the roster.

Whoever wins the #6 spot, be it Nils, Schneider, Jones, or anyone else, is going to have a relatively training wheels transition role. We've got our PP guys Fox and Trouba (With Miller as an alternate) and our penalty killers Trouba, Fox, Lindgren, Nemeth (With Miller as an alternate once again)

So whomever makes the team will be looking at a relatively easy 15 ES minutes a game with Nemeth against the oppositions bottom 6 forwards.

 

[Ola]

Makes you think.View attachment 463959

Its not the same metrics, but Hedman was a trainwreck early in the NHL.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Dvorak would have replaced Strome.

If we're going to be that short sighted we're destined for failure. The move would not have been only for the upcoming season.

There is little to no certainty at Center for the Rangers future. Instead of kicking the can down the road, similar to Gorton's 'team toughness', I believe it should be addressed when applicable

If we replace Strome with Dvorak, we're f***ed. This team isn't making the play offs with Dvorak is a 2C. I'm glad Montreal traded for him so I don't have to see a billion trade proposals for him anymore.

 

[duhmetreE]

Not everyone can play on this defense. There are only 6 spots. Maybe does not need to happen right now, but at some point a trade will happen before a prospects value diminishes or it is not as high as it could have been.

With Fox, Lindgren, KAM and Trouba all but guaranteed What 2 would compliment those 4?

Sure, things change but as it stands, which 2 out of Lundkvist, Jones, Robertson and Schneider? ( Not even including players like Reunanen, Hajek and Skinner. )

There's no definitive choice but the blueprint does encourage size.

 

[duhmetreE]

If we replace Strome with Dvorak, we're f***ed. This team isn't making the play offs with Dvorak is a 2C. I'm glad Montreal traded for him so I don't have to see a billion trade proposals for him anymore.

I'm rolling my eyes

 

[NYR Viper]

Let's do a comparison on Blais I have mentioned before but by the numbers:


[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD] 19-20[/TD][TD]gp [/TD][TD]g [/TD][TD]a [/TD][TD]p [/TD][TD]hits [/TD][TD]AVG TOI [/TD][TD]p/60 [/TD][TD]Age [/TD][TD]Corsi For Rel ES [/TD][TD]Fenwick For Rel ES [/TD][TD]Hits per 60 [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Tanev[/TD][TD] 68[/TD][TD]11[/TD][TD]14[/TD][TD]25[/TD][TD]244[/TD][TD]14:46[/TD][TD]1.5[/TD][TD]28[/TD][TD]-1.8[/TD][TD]-3.3[/TD][TD] 14.6[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Blais[/TD][TD] 40[/TD][TD]6[/TD][TD]7[/TD][TD]13[/TD][TD]155[/TD][TD]12:35[/TD][TD]1.7[/TD][TD]23[/TD][TD]-1.0[/TD][TD]-0.7[/TD][TD] 18.5[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Bennett[/TD][TD] 52[/TD][TD]8[/TD][TD]4[/TD][TD]12[/TD][TD]101[/TD][TD]12:31[/TD][TD]1.1[/TD][TD]23[/TD][TD]-1.1[/TD][TD]-1.3[/TD][TD] 9.3[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]20-21[/TD][TD]gp[/TD][TD]g[/TD][TD]a[/TD][TD]p[/TD][TD]hits[/TD][TD]AVG TOI[/TD][TD]p/60[/TD][TD]Age[/TD][TD]Corsi For Rel ES[/TD][TD]Fenwick For Rel ES[/TD][TD]Hits per 60 [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Tanev[/TD][TD]32[/TD][TD]7[/TD][TD]9[/TD][TD]16[/TD][TD]139[/TD][TD]14:26[/TD][TD]2.2[/TD][TD]29[/TD][TD]-1.5[/TD][TD]0.2[/TD][TD] 18.0[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Blais[/TD][TD]36[/TD][TD]8[/TD][TD]7[/TD][TD]15[/TD][TD]103[/TD][TD]12:04[/TD][TD]2.1[/TD][TD]24[/TD][TD]-3.4[/TD][TD]-4.4[/TD][TD] 14.2[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Bennett[/TD][TD]48[/TD][TD]10[/TD][TD]17[/TD][TD]27[/TD][TD]108[/TD][TD]14:25[/TD][TD]2.5[/TD][TD]24[/TD][TD]1.9[/TD][TD]2.6[/TD][TD] 9.3[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]

Brandon Tanev is signed for (4) more years @ $3.5m per season, after which he will be a UFA.

Sam Bennett is signed for (4) more years @ $4.425m per season, after which he will be a UFA

Sammy Blais is signed for (1) more year @ $1.5m, after which he will be a RFA.


Looking at these numbers next to eachother, there are a couple of things that need to be highlighted.
1) Sam Bennett scored WELL above his career norms in Florida after the trade. He scored 15 points in 10 games to finish the season which skews his numbers considerably and yet his p/60 is not that far outside of the range of either of these guys even with that included.
2) Both Tanev and Bennett are paid considerably more than Blais for about equal production bringing TOI into consideration.

With all things being equal, I think we can EASILY make the case that Blais is actually more valuable than Bennett, specifically at the time Bennett was traded prior to his 15 points in 10 game spurt and I think we can agree that by the numbers, he is more than a 4th liner.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I'm rolling my eyes

Dvorak is basically Chytil for more money.

 

[Fitzy]

It's been long enough since this team has seen the postseason that some of you are I think overrating the quality of roster it takes to make the playoffs.

There are so many different factors and moving pieces. If Shesty has a .925 year instead of a .916 year that on it's own probably puts us right in the conversation.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

It's been long enough since this team has seen the postseason that some of you are I think overrating the quality of roster it takes to make the playoffs.

There are so many different factors and moving pieces. If Shesty has a .925 year instead of a .916 year that on it's own probably puts us right in the conversation.

He had 2 of those. But then his ELC expired

 

[mas0764]

It was not. Not even close imo.

I wish we knew what the other deals were.

 

[Lays]

KAM has astronomical peaks.... Like ABSURD defensive highs/capabilities. aka Smothering Crosby and/or anyone behind the net, on the boards etc.

He is raw and will have lows. As seen predominantly without Trouba, who gave him a solid foundation to fall on.

My biggest gripe with KAM is how awkward he is (occasionally) pivoting from skating backwards/transition and un-needed mental lapses that should shape up with more coaching and experience..

YOU DO NOT TRADE A PLAYER LIKE KAM.

K’Andre will be a top 20 defenseman. Someone can bookmark this. Dude is a special talent that’s exceeded expectations and has unlimited upside. I agree with you, he should not be traded unless we can get someone like Chychrun. People forget he transitioned to defense at only age 16 and at 21 years old has shown flashes of literally bullying Crosby and Barzal and handling 20 minutes a night in the NHL. I had him in my top 15 for the 2018 draft. Right now the only guys I would clearly take over him would be Svech, Dahlin, and Tkachuk. I wouldn’t even trade him 1 for 1 for Hughes

 

[mas0764]

Hmmm, I have to say I would definitely trade KAM if the Devils called offering Jack Hughes. If we are talking Luke Hughes then no.

 

[SA16]

The peak of homerism here.

 

[Ruggs225]

Seriously when does TC start?

 

[Mac n Gs]

Hmmm, I have to say I would definitely trade KAM if the Devils called offering Jack Hughes. If we are talking Luke Hughes then no.

His post was referring to Quinn Hughes. Jack Hughes for Miller would be a no brainer lol

 

[JCProdigy]

K’Andre will be a top 20 defenseman. Someone can bookmark this. Dude is a special talent that’s exceeded expectations and has unlimited upside. I agree with you, he should not be traded unless we can get someone like Chychrun. People forget he transitioned to defense at only age 16 and at 21 years old has shown flashes of literally bullying Crosby and Barzal and handling 20 minutes a night in the NHL. I had him in my top 15 for the 2018 draft. Right now the only guys I would clearly take over him would be Svech, Dahlin, and Tkachuk. I wouldn’t even trade him 1 for 1 for Hughes

....of course you also said that Fox didn't have anywhere near the ceiling of Bo Byram. Maybe not so much certainty is in order...

 

[duhmetreE]

Dvorak is basically Chytil for more money.

and? It's not one or the other. However, he's way more developed and has had more success than Chytil comparatively speaking. He's replacing Strome for the future. We have no centers locked up long term. This is a major cause for concern imo. It can end really poorly.

It's a moot point at this time.

 

[Lays]

....of course you also said that Fox didn't have anywhere near the ceiling of Bo Byram. Maybe not so much certainty is in order...

In 2019 before Fox played an NHL game. At the time, everyone would have agreed. Weird that you remember that though and waited until I posted that to bring it up when it my comment has nothing to do with Byram or Fox. I could go through your messages and find something completely irrelevant to pick on as well. I genuinely don’t even know who you are though

 

[duhmetreE]

Let's do a comparison on Blais I have mentioned before but by the numbers:


[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD] 19-20[/TD][TD]gp [/TD][TD]g [/TD][TD]a [/TD][TD]p [/TD][TD]hits [/TD][TD]AVG TOI [/TD][TD]p/60 [/TD][TD]Age [/TD][TD]Corsi For Rel ES [/TD][TD]Fenwick For Rel ES [/TD][TD]Hits per 60 [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Tanev[/TD][TD] 68[/TD][TD]11[/TD][TD]14[/TD][TD]25[/TD][TD]244[/TD][TD]14:46[/TD][TD]1.5[/TD][TD]28[/TD][TD]-1.8[/TD][TD]-3.3[/TD][TD] 14.6[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Blais[/TD][TD] 40[/TD][TD]6[/TD][TD]7[/TD][TD]13[/TD][TD]155[/TD][TD]12:35[/TD][TD]1.7[/TD][TD]23[/TD][TD]-1.0[/TD][TD]-0.7[/TD][TD] 18.5[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Bennett[/TD][TD] 52[/TD][TD]8[/TD][TD]4[/TD][TD]12[/TD][TD]101[/TD][TD]12:31[/TD][TD]1.1[/TD][TD]23[/TD][TD]-1.1[/TD][TD]-1.3[/TD][TD] 9.3[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]20-21[/TD][TD]gp[/TD][TD]g[/TD][TD]a[/TD][TD]p[/TD][TD]hits[/TD][TD]AVG TOI[/TD][TD]p/60[/TD][TD]Age[/TD][TD]Corsi For Rel ES[/TD][TD]Fenwick For Rel ES[/TD][TD]Hits per 60 [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Tanev[/TD][TD]32[/TD][TD]7[/TD][TD]9[/TD][TD]16[/TD][TD]139[/TD][TD]14:26[/TD][TD]2.2[/TD][TD]29[/TD][TD]-1.5[/TD][TD]0.2[/TD][TD] 18.0[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Blais[/TD][TD]36[/TD][TD]8[/TD][TD]7[/TD][TD]15[/TD][TD]103[/TD][TD]12:04[/TD][TD]2.1[/TD][TD]24[/TD][TD]-3.4[/TD][TD]-4.4[/TD][TD] 14.2[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Bennett[/TD][TD]48[/TD][TD]10[/TD][TD]17[/TD][TD]27[/TD][TD]108[/TD][TD]14:25[/TD][TD]2.5[/TD][TD]24[/TD][TD]1.9[/TD][TD]2.6[/TD][TD] 9.3[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]
Brandon Tanev is signed for (4) more years @ $3.5m per season, after which he will be a UFA.

Sam Bennett is signed for (4) more years @ $4.425m per season, after which he will be a UFA

Sammy Blais is signed for (1) more year @ $1.5m, after which he will be a RFA.


Looking at these numbers next to eachother, there are a couple of things that need to be highlighted.
1) Sam Bennett scored WELL above his career norms in Florida after the trade. He scored 15 points in 10 games to finish the season which skews his numbers considerably and yet his p/60 is not that far outside of the range of either of these guys even with that included.
2) Both Tanev and Bennett are paid considerably more than Blais for about equal production bringing TOI into consideration.

With all things being equal, I think we can EASILY make the case that Blais is actually more valuable than Bennett, specifically at the time Bennett was traded prior to his 15 points in 10 game spurt and I think we can agree that by the numbers, he is more than a 4th liner.

that might be stretching it. I like Blais and I wanted/like Bennett.

Bennett is a really good Playoff Performer and lit it up in Florida. He's obviously not going to sustain what he did in the regular season but I'd take him over Blais in a heartbeat

but I do believe the Rangers were looking for a Bennett type of player/trade. Where a new environment/top9 time can yield somewhat similar results

 

[NYR Viper]

that might be stretching it. I like Blais and I wanted/like Bennett.

Bennett is a really good Playoff Performer and lit it up in Florida. He's obviously not going to sustain what he did in the regular season but I'd take him over Blais in a heartbeat

but I do believe the Rangers were looking for a Bennett type of player/trade. Where a new environment/top9 time can yield somewhat similar results

Perhaps it's a stretch but when you also save ~$3m on the cap in comparison, that's a BIG difference.

And this is semantics anyways, my main point was that there is a conversation to be had between these players. This is a clear example of people undervaluing a piece of the deal because he's not 'sexy' which is exactly what @Edge warned us of with any of these deals. The team was going to try to round out their lineup with non-sexy, lunch pail guys. Blais fits that mold. So does Goodrow.

The guy who still intrigues me quite a bit is Hunt. If we look at his p/60 last year it's 1.6 which coincides with an average Brandon Tanev season AND he hits A TON. The Rangers may have sourced a Brandon Tanev for peanuts as a UFA and no one is talking about it.