Some details about the World Cup...

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That's your opinion, but not a reality. Are the players paid for participating at the World Championships? No. But you have seen there players like Malkin, Stamkos, Ovechkin, Jagr, Zetterberg, Karlsson, Getzlaf, Heatley, Nash, Bouwmeester, M.Koivu, Chara, Gaborik, Rinne, Kane, P.Stastny, Tavares, Elias, Lundqvist, St.Louis, Giroux, or H.Sedin and D.Sedin.

I'm wondering what is the reason they have played at this tournament.

The arguments from them keep getting sillier.

I wish they at least would stick to the old standard ones that actually have some reasonable concerns.But the ones they are coming up with now are just desperation, just things thrown out in hopes that it may fool a few people into accepting their attitude.

It does not help their case out at all.
 
Imagine if the KHL were holding a best-on-best event and Canada's A-squad was showing up.

Would Canadian fans be indifferent to that event, as some Europeans are at least pretending to be with the world cup?

Not a chance. If anything most fans would see it as an opportunity to (again) win it all on their ice.

This obsession with the iihf sanctioning an event is just bizarre.

A KHL organized tournament best on best?

It would be huge in Canada, almost cold war like overtones to it.

That is something I would LOVE to happen.

It would be a major story and have tremendous interest in Canada.
 
A KHL organized tournament best on best?

It would be huge in Canada, almost cold war like overtones to it.

That is something I would LOVE to happen.

It would be a major story and have tremendous interest in Canada.

For me such an event would be even bigger than an NHL-run world cup due to its location, challenge, and unexpectedness.

You'd hear no crying for the iihf from me.

But after sochi I doubt the Russians would try it.
 
I believe that many people in Europe care about the World Cup. As I said earlier, according to my friend in the Czech rep., there are many hockey fans in the country who love the idea and some even think it's more prestigious than the olympics. Don't be fooled because of some posters here, that European fans don't care about it. That's nonsense. Maybe some people don't. But some people definitely do.
 
For me such an event would be even bigger than an NHL-run world cup due to its location, challenge, and unexpectedness.

You'd hear no crying for the iihf from me.

But after sochi I doubt the Russians would try it.

Absolutely!!

It would no question have even more interest and value for me just by virtue of where it is and what it is.

Canada would eat that up, TSN would start pumping it from the moment it was announced.

And it would not need IIHF sanctioning to do it either, even saying that makes me chuckle as I type it.

The fact that it would house all the best players and be an overseas rival league challenge like that is all the legitimacy it would need for fans over here, take that to the bank.

You would think European fans would have the same attitude regarding a N.A and NHL hosted world cup as Canadian fans would with this KHL world cup venture.

But nope, can't do it, not IIHF sanctioned.

The mindset is puzzling to be sure.
 
I believe that many people in Europe care about the World Cup. As I said earlier, according to my friend in the Czech rep., there are many hockey fans in the country who love the idea and some even think it's more prestigious than the olympics. Don't be fooled because of some posters here, that European fans don't care about it. That's nonsense. Maybe some people don't. But some people definitely do.

Heres the thing, you will find out just how much they care when one of them wins it.

Mark my words, they will be all over it around these parts.

Remember I said that.

Just sit back and watch how much they don't care.
 
It does not show lack of hockey knowledge at all.


The fact that you do not consider an acknowledged top 10 team in international hockey as being a legitimate threat shows nothing more then a lack of respect on your part for that team.


Are you telling me that you have little to no fear of losing to a team like Slovakia when you play them?

That is ******** and I am gonna have to call you on that pal.

Lack of hockey knowledge my ass.

Slovakia are really lacking in talent as evidenced by their results at the Olympics and Worlds. With all the best players taking part, they do not "worry me". We have the advantage at center, goal and behind the bench and those are the things that matter.

I challenged you to name the rosters, are you going to accept or back out like a little biatch? :D
 
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That's your opinion, but not a reality. Are the players paid for participating at the World Championships? No. But you have seen there players like Malkin, Stamkos, Ovechkin, Jagr, Zetterberg, Karlsson, Getzlaf, Heatley, Nash, Bouwmeester, M.Koivu, Chara, Gaborik, Rinne, Kane, P.Stastny, Tavares, Elias, Lundqvist, St.Louis, Giroux, or H.Sedin and D.Sedin.

I'm wondering what the reason is they have played at this tournament.

The players paid for their performances, should the country win gold. Russians get huge bonuses for winning gold and other federations reward the players as well. For Europeans playing for the national team at Worlds is more traditional though, hence why they usually don't turn down invites.
 
Slovakia are really lacking in talent as evidenced by their results at the Olympics and Worlds. With all the best players taking part, they do not "worry me". We have the advantage at center, goal and behind the bench and those are the things that matter.

I agree you have the advantage but certainly not enough of an advantage where a loss would take you by complete surprise.

They are a top ten team and as such always have a legitimate chance, simple as that.

I am sure the U.S went in knowing with all of Finlands injuries they had the advantage going into the bronze medal game. Then they got trounced.

And why? because injuries or advantages in goal or defense or whatever Finland is still one of the top teams in Hockey and as such are worthy and capable opponents no matter what it says on paper.

And Slovakia is also one of those teams. You cannot deny that.
 
I challenged you to name the rosters, are you going to accept or back out like a little biatch? :D[/QUOTE]

Backed up!!

Also, mind your respect with your language.
 
I agree you have the advantage but certainly not enough of an advantage where a loss would take you by complete surprise.

They are a top ten team and as such always have a legitimate chance, simple as that.

I am sure the U.S went in knowing with all of Finlands injuries they had the advantage going into the bronze medal game. Then they got trounced.

And why? because injuries or advantages in goal or defense or whatever Finland is still one of the top teams in Hockey and as such are worthy and capable opponents no matter what it says on paper.

And Slovakia is also one of those teams. You cannot deny that.

Yes, I can. It's no disrespect to admit the facts. Look up the threads for Team Slovakia from the Olympics and Worlds, even their fans here admit that they have a change of generation going on and things might be tough for the near future.
 
I believe that many people in Europe care about the World Cup. As I said earlier, according to my friend in the Czech rep., there are many hockey fans in the country who love the idea and some even think it's more prestigious than the olympics. Don't be fooled because of some posters here, that European fans don't care about it. That's nonsense. Maybe some people don't. But some people definitely do.

Many younger casual fans in Sweden does not know what it is. They didn't grow up with it and have no novelty feelings towards it.

I'll watch this if the time allows it. I for sure won't make any plans to stay up and watch it.
 
They should invite the women to participate with their own separate tournament as well.

That would give the tournament the touch of class needed to make it stand out as its own big event (instead of the inconsistent on-again off-again it is right now) and give the world another complete hockey spectacle besides the Olympics to enjoy our world's best athletes.
 
In the end, to me, this simply wind up being a product that won't be as good as the Olympic tourney. Let the NHL have its Canadian cash-grab dressing up as a World Cup. If they get rid of the Olympic involvement though, I am done with the league.

If something does not give fair access to the world, then the World Cup title is false.

Basically, I was really hoping this World Cup would involve the world, get the other leagues involved like the WBC.
 
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This is one of my favourites. Basically the players don't matter, only the governing body does. Absurd. I never knew that some European fans cared so much about bureaucracy, to the point that it overshadowed the actual players.

I think if the NHL/PA had done a better job running and building the CC/WCup over the years people would harp about the tournaments controlling 'bureaucracy' a lot less. When it comes to building a world tournament that is universally valued as the be-all and end-all the caliber of the players involved is obviously important but so are a lot of other things. The organizers of CC/WCup have done a horrible job at those other 'things'. I can understand why some don't give the tournament a lot of cred or have faith that the NHL/PA is committed to building it into something that more closely resembles some of the major international tournaments we see in other sports. Just look at its history...

Despite the Soviet Union and the NHL itself not exactly being fully onboard the first tournament got things off to a pretty promising start. Then came the '79 edition...

Partly due to internal squabbling amongst various parties within Canada the '79 CC ended up being played in '81. Once the tournament did start things didn't get much better as poor attendance had Eagleson threatening to scrap any future tournaments. To top everything off the Soviets weren't allowed to take the trophy home with them.

Probably fair to say things improved over the next 10 years/3 tournaments. It produced some memorable moments which helped local interest rebound but I am not sure if any effort was really made to try to build it into anything that had a profile outside of Canada. Organizers still couldn't figure out how to stage the thing at regular intervals.

The '96 tournament seemed like an ambitious step forward...
-Rebranding to the WCup
-Expanding to 8 teams
-Games in Europe
...The organizers built on this by not holding a another tournament for 8 years.

The '04 tournament is probably most notable for being scheduled to end a couple hours before the two co-organizers would blow up an an entire NHL season.

We are now at 10 years and counting since the last tournament was held.

For all of the IIHF's (and WC) faults and flaws they have still managed to figure out plenty of the 'things' the NHL/PA is eventually going to have to figure out if they want the WCup to reach its full potential, such as...

Figuring out the apparently complex task of holding a tournament on a regular and conistent bases. Some might argue the WC is too regular and consistent but it is still preferable to a system that as far as I can tell is built on a premise of 'the next tournament will be held if/when we get our $#!& together'.

An open and defined qualifying system. Teams should be able to play their way in by beating other teams on the ice. I don't see why people think giving any country/federation interested a chance to play their way into a 'World' Cup is an unreasonable position. It is certainly a better system than picking the participating teams based on how many NHLers they have.

An open and defined process to bid for the right to host the event. Any country/federation that is interested in hosting (at least some games) should have the oppurtunity to make their case for doing so. A 'World' Cup shouldn't mean some countries always playing at home while others never get the chance to even bid for the privildge.

In the IIHF any country/federation that has put in the time and effort to join the IIHF and participate in the WC program also has a voice in how things are run and the oppurtunity to benefit from their involvement. I don't expect the NHL to care about what the Belgium Ice Hockey Federation has to say about matters pertaining to WCup but unless this is going to be limited to a 3 or 4 team exhibition style event national federations and other leagues are going to have some form of involvement. I think they should be allowed to have a voice and benefit from their involvment.

With all that said, who knows... Maybe at this point the NHL envisions future WCups as nothing more than a 'fun' event to help hype the upcoming NHL season.
 
But teams like Norway?

Whats the issue if they are not there?
There is no issue if they, or anybody else for that matter, are not there.

The issue is if they have not been given the chance to be there.

saying that teams like Norway not being there because they don't have the IIHF involved to include them does not make the tournament an exhibition whatsoever .
Nobody is saying that.

Is the WHC an exhibition and less legitimate because the IIHF does not find room to make sure the world is fully represented and North Korea is there?
North Korea is there (when they care to ice a team).
 
Imagine if the KHL were holding a best-on-best event and Canada's A-squad was showing up.

Would Canadian fans be indifferent to that event, as some Europeans are at least pretending to be with the world cup?

Not a chance. If anything most fans would see it as an opportunity to (again) win it all on their ice.

This obsession with the iihf sanctioning an event is just bizarre.

We would not be indifferent to any Best on Best tournament no matter who organized it and where... it's what we live for, it's our raison d'être!
 
You are aware that the term "amateur" was very loose since the 80's already as most of the athletes were already getting paid well enough throughout their domestic leagues and season long world cup tours etc.?

See post #126.

There is no benefit to seeing inferior players competing instead of the world's best. It's such an outdated and absurd concept in this day and age. If the Olympic gold medal is to mean anything at all, it requires the best players to actually compete for it.

The concept itself is not more outdated and absurd today than it was in the 19th century. It wouldn't sell nowadays, but selling something wasn't the original point of the Olympic movement anyway, quite the opposite.

Is the WHC an exhibition and less legitimate because the IIHF does not find room to make sure the world is fully represented and North Korea is there?

Even if you don't like the argument or don't agree with it, you can at least respect that it means something to the ones who bring it up and is not just a silly excuse. The IIHF World Championship has a four-divisional setup which gives every participating country the chance to be promoted to the top flight. The FIFA World Cup wouldn't be the FIFA World Cup without a qualification procedure that gives everybody, from Spain down to Aruba (who are much more chanceless than Denmark in hockey) the chance to qualify. And that's the way it should be. Like it or not, but an open qualification process will considerably increase the legitimacy of the Hockey World Cup in the eyes of many fans, especially in Europe.
 
Hey, I'm still waiting for those supposedly NHL filled Russian, Finnish and Slovakian rosters without NHL players.

There's your American Team Finland:

Mi. Granlund - M. Koivu - J. Jokinen
Haula - Barkov - Bergenheim
Korpikoski - O. Jokinen - Ruutu
Ma. Granlund - Filppula - Leino

Pitkänen - Vatanen
Määttä - Ristolainen
Hakanpää - Järvinen

Rask - Lehtonen

Rinne
Jokipakka
Rissanen
Joensuu
Teräväinen
Pulkkinen

...Slovakia wouldn't be possible without at least some European players, or alternatively juniors.
 
Hey, I'm still waiting for those supposedly NHL filled Russian, Finnish and Slovakian rosters without NHL players.

My point to you was not about teams filled without KHL players, it was abut teams filled with all their best players so that is why I did not bother.

And if those teams have their best players available they can beat you on any given day no question.

It seems you misunderstood.
 
The WHC is every year. If the World Cup comes back it would only be every 4 years in between Olympics.

How is the NHL getting everything it wants ?

Money and/or prestige. So far they haven't offered anything that'd be interesting to the European federations or leagues. They could offer Olympic participation for example, but so far they haven't. And unless they do that there's no reason why especially the Russians would agree to take part. It's going to be a very political issue where no one's going to have anything for free.
 
There's your American Team Finland:

Mi. Granlund - M. Koivu - J. Jokinen
Haula - Barkov - Bergenheim
Korpikoski - O. Jokinen - Ruutu
Ma. Granlund - Filppula - Leino

Pitkänen - Vatanen
Määttä - Ristolainen
Hakanpää - Järvinen

Rask - Lehtonen

Rinne
Jokipakka
Rissanen
Joensuu
Teräväinen
Pulkkinen

...Slovakia wouldn't be possible without at least some European players, or alternatively juniors.

It's unlikely OJ and Leino are in the NHL in two years time, plus there's a lot of AHL players that might not be in NHL in 2016 either.
 
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